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What should Ace do to grow Crowfall?


Is Crowfall close to complete in your eyes? (Anonymous)   

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Crowfall ready for a launch relatively soon?

    • Yes, Crowfall is ready for release soon!
      4
    • No, Crowfall needs a some larger adjustments before being released.
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So talking to my guild and players from other guilds I have some things I think Ace should try and how we (players and developers) can do. 

1) Twitch

        Twitch is one of the biggest platforms for gaming ever. It is a huge opportunity that we miss out on significantly. My first idea for how we can get new traffic into the Crowfall section, uses the official Crowfall channel on there. When we have mega sieges, where all of the major guilds in a particular region are present, they need to be streamed from a Developers prospective or some over arching camera angles maybe with a play by play. I know the first question that comes to mind is how do we counter stream sniping. The most obvious way is having a stream delay. Stream delays are including in all modern screen streaming or capturing software. Beyond just having the official Crowfall channel streaming things, we should also push more people into streaming and having some influencers (celebrities) streaming too. If there was a way to pay for a streamer to play the game for a day and have them join one of the guilds that are taking part of the mega sieges then they would hopefully enjoy the core part of the game and past that show other people the game. There is a whole rabbit hole I could jump down about how they could hand out keys, include their communities with discount codes, etc. but I won't go into that. 

2) Gameplay

     Besides maps being too small or not numerous enough, Alliances are a big threat. Personally, I'd love to see guild sizes capped from 50-75 players with no cap on how many allies you can have, or have the entire Alliance capped at 500 players. Crowfall and done so much in the recent 6.3 patch to make gathering an even playing field and they should make numbers the same. With too many people it reduces skill required from the individuals and can cause a toxic environment where players don't want to play since they will lose to double or triple their numbers. It pushes away smaller and new guilds which will only drive Crowfall down the wrong road. Another huge one that every player I've talked to has no issue and most wanting it, is PvP ranking system. Have some sort of rank to show experience or dedication to something. I would extend thins beyond just PvP ranks and push it maybe into titles as a whole. Show off that you've gotten 500 legendary ore or show off you've chopped 1000 skulls off of people's shoulders. With titles also, you can minimize lag because it is just extra text not a particle or that damn Gaea sentinel that kills your frames. Sieges need changes too. Some sort of loss has to be accrued when you siege someone else. I thought of a lot of things and the one idea seemed to prevail. To siege a keep, you need to sacrifice XP to be able to siege. The XP will raise 1 banewood tree per ___ amount of XP capping out at 3 trees for a keep and 8 trees for a castle. This will make it where attacking has some risk to it because you're making a choice. You either level up your keep or you go siege someone else's it's simple. The next step that I'm thinking about now is removing the AOE cap or finding a way to anti zerg.

3) Map

     The making a city a home for a guild. That is gone. There is no sense of home that is developed like in Shadowbane or Darkfall. You know what these had that CF doesnt? space. Until we get 100 holdings, this game is going to be a small impact, 1 zerg game on each campaign.  The biggest issue if Crowfall starts bringing in more players is map size/Alliances. Going in order, maps need to be bigger. With bigger maps we can house more players. If you remember back to recent patches, we were supposed to get castles but we don't have a map big enough to host it. Even if it is one gigantic map with 15-20 keeps and a few castles, it'll keep the game the moving in a positive direction. Smaller guilds can keep control of their keeps and have a solid base to work out of while the bigger guilds who are pushing heavy on the score cards can hold the castles with more incentive placed on sieging other castles because of the score difference. This will keep guilds in there own lanes enabling ALL guilds to feel successful and productive in a campaign. With the bigger map I would want a very large time frame, like a month-ish. Since it is in Beta too and it is very possible, why not try it out for one campaign? 

 

I beg you to comment or reply with your take on how Crowfall can make better changes or tell me possible flaws in mine. I don't want people to argue just to argue I want a real conversation. I think I can speak for almost everyone that I truly want this game to thrive and want to see it's golden age. I love being part of a guild and laughs and good times that come from it. Please help save Crowfall. Follow the thread too so you can respond to others or the edits I will be making.

Edited by Zivu
I keep adding on lower mentioned ideas and other ideas I think of
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Before release:   - Anti Zerg Mechanics - Class Balancing and buffing, or figure out how to nerf classes without destroying them - Territory Control  - Hungerdome - Passi

So talking to my guild and players from other guilds I have some things I think Ace should try and how we (players and developers) can do.  1) Twitch         Twitch is one of the biggest pla

I find so many fights if i want them 90% of the people i come across is your alliance though. Your in the only large alliance that activly plays the game with alot of people. WB only logs in for seige

IMO, before ACE starts encouraging more people to find the game via more adds or better twitch support or a more open approach to beta they need to find out why the people who have already checked out the game have stopped playing.

Crowfall, as it is now, isn't much fun for folks that mostly want to PvP. There is too much gathering and crafting grind before a character can be competitive in PvP.  Also, when we do get into PvP, it doesn't matter who 'wins' or 'loses'. Campaigns are too short and then everything goes back in the box. Give us a reason to WANT to defend or attack points of interest.

Make the game fun and THEN expose it to a larger audience.

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I agree entirely, neither the PvP or PvE seems complete and I think they need to do a combination of both to succeed. Thralls need to be more of a combat hub. They are there every night cycle. We need something to push PvP in the day though like only having the gryphons spawn then and having them be significantly harder. I'm thinking Herald level and they can drop wayyyy better loot that you can't get from anywhere else easily (same idea as thralls having runes). One of the possibilities I could see would be the extra back items you get like the tankard but having a greater variety that gave you small buffs or even some maybe providing utility abilities? 

 

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1 hour ago, Zivu said:

I'd love to see guild sizes capped from 50-75 players with no cap on how many allies you can have, or have the entire Alliance capped at 500 players.

IMO guild roster caps do not work, players end up making alt guilds and use alliance or NAP to work around it. What I do think would work in CF is a ruleset variable that caps concurrent guild players either for the whole Campaign or for each zone.

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2 hours ago, Zivu said:

So talking to my guild and players from other guilds I have some things I think Ace should try and how we (players and developers) can do. 

1) Twitch

        Twitch is one of the biggest platforms for gaming ever. It is a huge opportunity that we miss out on significantly. My first idea for how we can get new traffic into the Crowfall section, uses the official Crowfall channel on there. When we have mega sieges, where all of the major guilds in a particular region are present, they need to be streamed from a Developers prospective or some over arching camera angles maybe with a play by play. I know the first question that comes to mind is how do we counter stream sniping. The most obvious way is having a stream delay. Stream delays are including in all modern screen streaming or capturing software. Beyond just having the official Crowfall channel streaming things, we should also push more people into streaming and having some influencers (celebrities) streaming too. If there was a way to pay for a streamer to play the game for a day and have them join one of the guilds that are taking part of the mega sieges then they would hopefully enjoy the core part of the game and past that show other people the game. There is a whole rabbit hole I could jump down about how they could hand out keys, include their communities with discount codes, etc. but I won't go into that. 

Most of this has already happened.

A decent number of players were streaming regularly. Seems most have stopped streaming or moved on to other games for now. ACE had a stream-a-thon where they've been hosting channels over the weekend. They've been given beta keys and such for viewers. Blocking the screen isn't hard to do but some prefer to welcome snipers as it makes for better content then running around looking for people.

Problem is the "core" part of the game as you call it, sieges, is timed content so streamers have to be on at those times or miss out. Rest of the time it is PVE and random running around looking for people. The FPS are not impressive either when the larger content happens, not good for viewers to see.

MMOs in general don't do well on Twitch (GW2, Albion, BDO) with only WoW really pulling in a lot. MMO content isn't that exciting for viewers. For a game like Crowfall with little content, population, and lots of down time, it is even less exciting.

Paying a celebrity at this point would probably hurt the game more then help it.

If a game is good, people will play and stream it. 100s of thousands have put their eyes on the game one way or another. 10s of thousands have access and don't play.

2 hours ago, Zivu said:

2) Gameplay

      The biggest issue if Crowfall starts bringing in more players is map size/Alliances.

Making the game enjoyable so people actually want to play it so they have to adjust map size and what not hopefully happens, but for now the maps are probably too large. Considering the amount of time they've spent on the world building tools, making individual maps larger/smaller or the number of maps should be fairly easy. Making the game something people want to play and fill up the world is something much harder.

 


 

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1 hour ago, Zivu said:

2) Gameplay

      The biggest issue if Crowfall starts bringing in more players is map size/Alliances. Going in order, maps need to be bigger. With bigger maps we can house more players. If you remember back to recent patches, we were supposed to get castles but we don't have a map big enough to host it. Besides maps being too small or not numerous enough, Alliances are a big threat. Personally, I'd love to see guild sizes capped from 50-75 players with no cap on how many allies you can have, or have the entire Alliance capped at 500 players. Crowfall and done so much in the recent 6.3 patch to make gathering an even playing field and they should make numbers the same. With too many people it reduces skill required from the individuals and can cause a toxic environment where players don't want to play since they will lose to double or triple their numbers. It pushes away smaller and new guilds which will only drive Crowfall down the wrong road. Another huge one that every player I've talked to has no issue and most wanting it, is PvP ranking system. Have some sort of rank to show experience or dedication to something. I would extend thins beyond just PvP ranks and push it maybe into titles as a whole. Show off that you've gotten 500 legendary ore or show off you've chopped 1000 skulls off of people's shoulders. With titles also, you can minimize lag because it is just extra text not a particle or that damn Gaea sentinel that kills your frames.

So .. regarding map sizes...  We haven't hit map population cap in a long time. It may have been as far back as 5.x releases. The maps are already plenty big enough to house the number of players currently playing and then some.

In the siege tonight all of the players gathered in one area used roughly 1/4 of one map, with the rest being effectively untouched, or just crossed after ressing at an outpost/keep. Then there were 3 other whole maps not being used.

The NA campaign population often dips as low as 10-13 players. With the current map sizes, that already puts player density at an unacceptably low level. I can literally mount up and ride around for an hour and not see another player.

There's lots of room to grow, and I'm sure the number of maps or map size could be tweaked if we start pushing up against the limit, but I'm sure the devs have planned for that.

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3 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

So .. regarding map sizes...  We haven't hit map population cap in a long time. It may have been as far back as 5.x releases. The maps are already plenty big enough to house the number of players currently playing and then some.

In the siege tonight all of the players gathered in one area used roughly 1/4 of one map, with the rest being effectively untouched, or just crossed after ressing at an outpost/keep. Then there were 3 other whole maps not being used.

The NA campaign population often dips as low as 10-13 players. With the current map sizes, that already puts player density at an unacceptably low level. I can literally mount up and ride around for an hour and not see another player.

There's lots of room to grow, and I'm sure the number of maps or map size could be tweaked if we start pushing up against the limit, but I'm sure the devs have planned for that.

the reason for larger map size is to reduce the domination faction zergs have when they can capture everything since it takes 5 minutes to get anywhere it leave no place for smaller guild which usualy make up bulk of the playerbase ur loosing those guild so quickly that join.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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6 hours ago, APE said:

Making the game enjoyable so people actually want to play it 

This is ACE's biggest problem now. They have spent the past couple years modifying the game, now very few of the game systems mesh and overall the game is not fun for most. Until ace changes direction and stops listening to those that took the game to this point, the future is quite grim. 

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8 hours ago, MacDeath said:

IMO, before ACE starts encouraging more people to find the game via more adds or better twitch support or a more open approach to beta they need to find out why the people who have already checked out the game have stopped playing.

I pop in every couple of years and play for a few months. I can't speak for anyone else but, for me, the game seems to get less cohesive and less focused with each iteration. In that sense, it isn't very much fun right now.

I think something that would help Crowfall grow would be for the devs to go through the different components of the game and - one at a time - make them entertaining and relatively feature complete.. Progression is still in flux. EKs are, at best, half done. The world bands are non-existent in either usage or representation. Crafting is cool af, but completely undocumented and far from intuitive. 

Would more worlds and smaller worlds help get people more engaged in playing? For me, I am not going to bother when it's a single campaign because I have no chance of winning and very little chance of gaining any type of reward. Are there others that feel the same way? Would more, smaller worlds  - meaning more chances for other people to get a slice of victory pie - get more people engaged? vov I dunno, but it seems a viable option.

 

22 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

Making the game enjoyable so people actually want to play it 

IMO, that needs to be the first priority. 

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21 minutes ago, BucDen said:

I think something that would help Crowfall grow would be for the devs to go through the different components of the game and - one at a time - make them entertaining and relatively feature complete.. Progression is still in flux. EKs are, at best, half done. The world bands are non-existent in either usage or representation. Crafting is cool af, but completely undocumented and far from intuitive. 

They have changed so many parts that the whole no longer works. In my opinion, ACE needs to go all the way back to design/concept and figure out what type of game they are trying to make. 

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10 hours ago, Zivu said:

I'd love to see guild sizes capped from 50-75 players with no cap on how many allies you can have, or have the entire Alliance capped at 500 players.

I agree on just about everything you said Zivu, except the above.  There needs to be a cap on both the number of members per Guild and Alliance.  If there isn't one then Guilds will find a way to incorporate as many players as they want - no limit of Guild amount in the Alliance = zergs, no limit on Guild size = zergs.  Both frustrate new players or small Guilds/Alliances and force them to play in something that is unenjoyable.  Who will play for long if they don't feel they are having an impact or able to participate in the 'end game'.

This hurts everyone in the game because the end result is the population suffers and there is no one left to PvP against.

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4 minutes ago, KoKaineKid said:

There needs to be a cap on both the number of members per Guild and Alliance.  If there isn't one then Guilds will find a way to incorporate as many players as they want - no limit of Guild amount in the Alliance = zergs, no limit on Guild size = zergs.  Both frustrate new players or small Guilds/Alliances and force them to play in something that is unenjoyable.  Who will play for long if they don't feel they are having an impact or able to participate in the 'end game'.

This hurts everyone in the game because the end result is the population suffers and there is no one left to PvP against.

A classic example of that was Shadowbane's Treachery server

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17 minutes ago, KoKaineKid said:

I agree on just about everything you said Zivu, except the above.  There needs to be a cap on both the number of members per Guild and Alliance.  If there isn't one then Guilds will find a way to incorporate as many players as they want - no limit of Guild amount in the Alliance = zergs, no limit on Guild size = zergs.  Both frustrate new players or small Guilds/Alliances and force them to play in something that is unenjoyable.  Who will play for long if they don't feel they are having an impact or able to participate in the 'end game'.

This hurts everyone in the game because the end result is the population suffers and there is no one left to PvP against.

When all the sheep have left, what do the wolves do? They don't kill each other, they leave too.

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9 hours ago, miraluna said:

IMO guild roster caps do not work, players end up making alt guilds and use alliance or NAP to work around it. What I do think would work in CF is a ruleset variable that caps concurrent guild players either for the whole Campaign or for each zone.

So how would that prevent work around, I guess I don't understand what you're saying?

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8 hours ago, APE said:

Problem is the "core" part of the game as you call it, sieges, is timed content so streamers have to be on at those times or miss out. Rest of the time it is PVE and random running around looking for people. The FPS are not impressive either when the larger content happens, not good for viewers to see.

So you'd like to see siege windows shorter/more often? Or maybe see it where after the first day, sieges can be claimed for free during siege time? Just so all the keeps and forts can be taken and have guaranteed content because who wouldn't want the free points?

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8 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

So .. regarding map sizes...  We haven't hit map population cap in a long time. It may have been as far back as 5.x releases. The maps are already plenty big enough to house the number of players currently playing and then some.

In the siege tonight all of the players gathered in one area used roughly 1/4 of one map, with the rest being effectively untouched, or just crossed after ressing at an outpost/keep. Then there were 3 other whole maps not being used.

The NA campaign population often dips as low as 10-13 players. With the current map sizes, that already puts player density at an unacceptably low level. I can literally mount up and ride around for an hour and not see another player.

There's lots of room to grow, and I'm sure the number of maps or map size could be tweaked if we start pushing up against the limit, but I'm sure the devs have planned for that.

I did say after the player base starts growing, but I do understand what you're saying. I also think though that if the maps stay small, all of the bigger guilds can have a better hold since they are all within reach which for sure won't push the game in the right direction. If we deny new people/guilds then we might as well just be playing Infected with the amount of guilds that'll be able to be competitive.

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5 hours ago, veeshan said:

to many wolfs not enough sheep for the wolfs due to boring PvE and nno PvE content

Read my reply to Mad earlier in the forum, I tried thinking up some ways we could create a better PvE system so it pushes PvP around those points. I'd be grateful if you could think of some too.

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