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What should Ace do to grow Crowfall?


Is Crowfall close to complete in your eyes? (Anonymous)   

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Crowfall ready for a launch relatively soon?

    • Yes, Crowfall is ready for release soon!
      4
    • No, Crowfall needs a some larger adjustments before being released.
      52


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2 hours ago, mystafyi said:

This is ACE's biggest problem now. They have spent the past couple years modifying the game, now very few of the game systems mesh and overall the game is not fun for most. Until ace changes direction and stops listening to those that took the game to this point, the future is quite grim. 

I agree the future is grim but just saying that doesn't help. We as beta testers need to give active feedback so they know what to do. That's all we can do.

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Before release:   - Anti Zerg Mechanics - Class Balancing and buffing, or figure out how to nerf classes without destroying them - Territory Control  - Hungerdome - Passi

So talking to my guild and players from other guilds I have some things I think Ace should try and how we (players and developers) can do.  1) Twitch         Twitch is one of the biggest pla

I find so many fights if i want them 90% of the people i come across is your alliance though. Your in the only large alliance that activly plays the game with alot of people. WB only logs in for seige

1 hour ago, BucDen said:

I pop in every couple of years and play for a few months. I can't speak for anyone else but, for me, the game seems to get less cohesive and less focused with each iteration. In that sense, it isn't very much fun right now.

I think something that would help Crowfall grow would be for the devs to go through the different components of the game and - one at a time - make them entertaining and relatively feature complete.. Progression is still in flux. EKs are, at best, half done. The world bands are non-existent in either usage or representation. Crafting is cool af, but completely undocumented and far from intuitive. 

Would more worlds and smaller worlds help get people more engaged in playing? For me, I am not going to bother when it's a single campaign because I have no chance of winning and very little chance of gaining any type of reward. Are there others that feel the same way? Would more, smaller worlds  - meaning more chances for other people to get a slice of victory pie - get more people engaged? vov I dunno, but it seems a viable option.

 

IMO, that needs to be the first priority. 

I get it. Without any guild or much new content it feels very slow. Especially now with the new crafting and gathering systems, I'm scared people will be maxed out within a month of the game releasing. People have no reason to stay if they don't have engaging systems AND they get rolled by more experienced players. The crafting is where I think they should start with making things fun again. It's the most complete system but it still needs some tweaks so people know a bit more of what they are doing. Whether that being a little wiki that can help people look up where to get resources or accurate counts of what needs to go in, to a full out in game solution with extensive tooltips. But overall, I agree Crowfall looks rusty from the outside and is just only a bit better on the inside.

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53 minutes ago, KoKaineKid said:

I agree on just about everything you said Zivu, except the above.  There needs to be a cap on both the number of members per Guild and Alliance.  If there isn't one then Guilds will find a way to incorporate as many players as they want - no limit of Guild amount in the Alliance = zergs, no limit on Guild size = zergs.  Both frustrate new players or small Guilds/Alliances and force them to play in something that is unenjoyable.  Who will play for long if they don't feel they are having an impact or able to participate in the 'end game'.

This hurts everyone in the game because the end result is the population suffers and there is no one left to PvP against.

How about lowing the cap to 3 guilds and having them capped at 75 each. This keeps numbers in moderation and still allows crafter to be part of the guild. In addition to keeping in game alliances smaller it will also push the politics of the game creating more depth.

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9 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

So .. regarding map sizes...  We haven't hit map population cap in a long time. It may have been as far back as 5.x releases. The maps are already plenty big enough to house the number of players currently playing and then some.

In the siege tonight all of the players gathered in one area used roughly 1/4 of one map, with the rest being effectively untouched, or just crossed after ressing at an outpost/keep. Then there were 3 other whole maps not being used.

The NA campaign population often dips as low as 10-13 players. With the current map sizes, that already puts player density at an unacceptably low level. I can literally mount up and ride around for an hour and not see another player.

There's lots of room to grow, and I'm sure the number of maps or map size could be tweaked if we start pushing up against the limit, but I'm sure the devs have planned for that.

Your not seeing the bigger problem, and it's not performance related at all. 

The fact is that as small of square footage of space the islands are, a single patrol can interrupt any group, or rally a force to a point, one with only a few moments of consideration. 
The second fact is it is crowded enough that new players get erased, from the game, FOREVER, very often the moment they step out their first rune gate in dregs.  I have seen at least a dozen cairns just around the gates with rotten apples and basic weapons on them.  

It's a chicken/egg problem, and I think the wrong side is being backed. The balance is big enough to accomodate the numbers ACE want's, and a world that doesn't feel dead when your out in it. I really think ACE should build the worlds as big as they want, and try to fill them, rather than set it up like musical chairs where there is always someone about to lose a seat. 

There simply isn't enough space to in the game, to have room for everyone that may want to try, and the consequence of having nowhere to get away from the PvP gank, and experience the rest of the game, is people leveling up in GR/Infected till they think they are ready, or more commonly just throwing in the towel and rightfully saying the game feels bad. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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18 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I really think ACE should build the worlds as big as they want, and try to fill them, rather than set it up like musical chairs where there is always someone about to lose a seat. 

Hadn't looked at it that way, but yeah, I can now see how going smaller could introduce a new set of problems. 

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uXa lost our keep last night.  It was a fun fight and congrats to HAX, Dis and W on their new keep.  This post has nothing to do with that loss.

This last campaign you could say was bigger than most, but only because ACE shipped the Euros and the Russians to their own servers.

But why were only 4 keeps taken this entire NA campaign?

This campaign had 4 keeps go live on one day, and 2 each on the other 2 days and 10:30 at night.  Until handshake sieges it isn't that bad a setup.

However there is something seriously wrong, for a 2 week campaign you would think people would want a keep.  But in this case only 4 keeps were taken.  If I remember correctly Cyber Bullies took a keep and lost it in spring.  (And no one re-planted).  

Why don't people take keeps?

1.  It's a huge investment to build a keep.  To re-build one every 2 weeks can get rather tiresome.

2.  If you are on NA and not part of the zerg that seems to consist of 70% of the server you are possibly wasting alot of effort.

3.  When the campaign end your keep just disappears.  WHAT THE custard IS THAT?

 

What I think needs to be done for next campaign (since ACE only seems to want band-aid fixes to territory control)

1.  Remove banks and rez shrines from all zones and keeps.  This way people can take a keep to build their own.

2.  Allow people to res at their Tree of Life.  This is what a tree of life is for, to give you life!!!!!!!!!!  If you are worried about defenders using this as an anti zerg mechanic, than increase the respawn timer.

3.  Put a Tree of Life and a bank in every fort.  This way, a small guild can take a fort and can live out of it for a day.  Guilds can also use this as a forward operating base for sieges.

4.  Make the zones 5x's as big.  Do not increase the number of outposts and god statues!  Put 4 keeps in each zone and spread them out.

5.  Put a scroll by the war table of a keep, and if a player interacts with it, their recall takes them there.

6.  Pre-build the bank in all keeps.  Lock them into level 1 to disable mobile banking.

7.  Pre-build the caravansary in all keeps.

8.  Allow neutral players to res and bank in a neutral keeps.

9.  Make the walls of a fort only take damage from siege weapons.  Allow the guards to be levelled up so small guilds can have mini sieges!

10.  Remove the chests from forts.

11.  Put the Timber, Boulders and Ingots in the outpost chests.  Remove crafting resources from outpost chests.

 

Map Editor

Give players the map editor so we can make proper maps.  These auto-generated maps are poorly made dergs!

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15 minutes ago, Sloppy said:

1.  Remove banks and rez shrines from all zones and keeps.  This way people can take a keep to build their own.

I would do the opposite. I want a permanent neutral res statue in every zone, or temple access in all zones with the ability to res without going through the portal. It feels really demoralizing to die and have to go through loading screens twice (or more!) in order to get back to where you were. I want to encourage people to mix it up and potentially die, not be terrified of engaging because they might have to spend 20 minutes travelling. A permanent neutral outpost serves all players including solo roamers and small groups.

25 minutes ago, Sloppy said:

4.  Make the zones 5x's as big.  Do not increase the number of outposts and god statues!  Put 4 keeps in each zone and spread them out.

Um. Zones already take ~5 minutes to cross in one direction now and already feel slightly on the empty side in terms of outpost density. You want to quintuple that without adding more objectives. If I'm reading this correctly, it will now take 25 minutes - almost half an hour! - to cross a zone and with less to do there. The only way I could see that working is if we got rid of map-islands and had one big map for everyone, but IIRC there are performance problems with this.

 

32 minutes ago, Sloppy said:

Why don't people take keeps?

 

I can't speak for everyone, but some reasons:

  • Not enough players active to defend it
  • No need for it - just messing around in campaign, not trying to win or craft
  • Sharing a keep with another alliance member
  • Playing for "landless" cards
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29 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

I would do the opposite. I want a permanent neutral res statue in every zone, or temple access in all zones with the ability to res without going through the portal. It feels really demoralizing to die and have to go through loading screens twice (or more!) in order to get back to where you were. I want to encourage people to mix it up and potentially die, not be terrified of engaging because they might have to spend 20 minutes travelling. A permanent neutral outpost serves all players including solo roamers and small groups.

1 hour ago, Sloppy said:

I think this would be a positive change. 


 

 

29 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

Um. Zones already take ~5 minutes to cross in one direction now and already feel slightly on the empty side in terms of outpost density. You want to quintuple that without adding more objectives. If I'm reading this correctly, it will now take 25 minutes - almost half an hour! - to cross a zone and with less to do there. The only way I could see that working is if we got rid of map-islands and had one big map for everyone, but IIRC there are performance problems with this.

 

 Literally what I said in here: 

 

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What could have made Crowfall different was the world building. The making a city a home for a guild. That is gone. There is no sense of home that is developed like in Shadowbane or Darkfall. You know what these had that CF doesnt? space. Until we get 100 holdings, this game is going to be a small impact, 1 zerg game on each campaign. Guilds want to be able to build their home, establish their identity. Right now, that is stifled. 

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1 hour ago, Sloppy said:

uXa lost our keep last night.  It was a fun fight and congrats to HAX, Dis and W on their new keep.  This post has nothing to do with that loss.

This last campaign you could say was bigger than most, but only because ACE shipped the Euros and the Russians to their own servers.

But why were only 4 keeps taken this entire NA campaign?

This campaign had 4 keeps go live on one day, and 2 each on the other 2 days and 10:30 at night.  Until handshake sieges it isn't that bad a setup.

However there is something seriously wrong, for a 2 week campaign you would think people would want a keep.  But in this case only 4 keeps were taken.  If I remember correctly Cyber Bullies took a keep and lost it in spring.  (And no one re-planted).  

Why don't people take keeps?

1.  It's a huge investment to build a keep.  To re-build one every 2 weeks can get rather tiresome.

2.  If you are on NA and not part of the zerg that seems to consist of 70% of the server you are possibly wasting alot of effort.

3.  When the campaign end your keep just disappears.  WHAT THE custard IS THAT?

 

What I think needs to be done for next campaign (since ACE only seems to want band-aid fixes to territory control)

1.  Remove banks and rez shrines from all zones and keeps.  This way people can take a keep to build their own.

2.  Allow people to res at their Tree of Life.  This is what a tree of life is for, to give you life!!!!!!!!!!  If you are worried about defenders using this as an anti zerg mechanic, than increase the respawn timer.

3.  Put a Tree of Life and a bank in every fort.  This way, a small guild can take a fort and can live out of it for a day.  Guilds can also use this as a forward operating base for sieges.

4.  Make the zones 5x's as big.  Do not increase the number of outposts and god statues!  Put 4 keeps in each zone and spread them out.

5.  Put a scroll by the war table of a keep, and if a player interacts with it, their recall takes them there.

6.  Pre-build the bank in all keeps.  Lock them into level 1 to disable mobile banking.

7.  Pre-build the caravansary in all keeps.

8.  Allow neutral players to res and bank in a neutral keeps.

9.  Make the walls of a fort only take damage from siege weapons.  Allow the guards to be levelled up so small guilds can have mini sieges!

10.  Remove the chests from forts.

11.  Put the Timber, Boulders and Ingots in the outpost chests.  Remove crafting resources from outpost chests.

 

Map Editor

Give players the map editor so we can make proper maps.  These auto-generated maps are poorly made dergs!

Excellent through and through, this is concise and to the point while also letting them see how to do it. Thank you for commenting! :D

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52 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

I can't speak for everyone, but some reasons:

  • Not enough players active to defend it
  • No need for it - just messing around in campaign, not trying to win or craft
  • Sharing a keep with another alliance member
  • Playing for "landless" cards

I think those reasons are only valid because there still isn't enough incentive to win or any chance with the smaller maps being dominated by WB, DIS and UXA. Largening the map seems to solve most of these.

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5 minutes ago, Fleazel said:

What could have made Crowfall different was the world building. The making a city a home for a guild. That is gone. There is no sense of home that is developed like in Shadowbane or Darkfall. You know what these had that CF doesnt? space. Until we get 100 holdings, this game is going to be a small impact, 1 zerg game on each campaign. Guilds want to be able to build their home, establish their identity. Right now, that is stifled. 

Agreed, everyone deserves a chance at an identity in the world. A bigger map allows that.

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Just now, Zivu said:

I think those reasons are only valid because there still isn't enough incentive to win or any chance with the smaller maps being dominated by WB, DIS and UXA. Largening the map seems to solve most of these.

No. God no.

It's 11:30 here. I think I started playing Crowfall around 10:00 this morning. In that time I have had one fight.

That is not okay. I think I'm the only player from my guild on map. I hope that doesn't count as 'dominating'.

The last thing I want to do is increase the area where other players might be. Then it's just going to take even longer to find content.

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10 minutes ago, Zivu said:

I think those reasons are only valid because there still isn't enough incentive to win or any chance with the smaller maps being dominated by WB, DIS and UXA. Largening the map seems to solve most of these.

If the map was larger and I had to run around for longer than I have to now to find fights I would quit the game

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1 hour ago, Sloppy said:

8.  Allow neutral players to res and bank in a neutral keeps.

Never really thought about this before, but there is no neutral state in the game.  You can be enemies, and allies, but there is nothing but self restraint in between.

I wonder how the game dynamics would change for new players if guilds had to declare enemies in addition to allies, and had a limited number of them just like allies. All non-enemies were neutral and not able to have attacks start outside of active territory parcels.  (Parcels with camps/forts/keeps). Assume all the corner cases were ironed out via a temporary effects, so players couldn't use the borders to negate active hostility.  E.G. an effect of "Hostile to UXA" effect that lasted 30 minutes or so. 

It might help with getting newer players into the world without stepping into the middle of a total meat grinder, or being gate ganked for the luls. 

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25 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

No. God no.

It's 11:30 here. I think I started playing Crowfall around 10:00 this morning. In that time I have had one fight.

That is not okay. I think I'm the only player from my guild on map. I hope that doesn't count as 'dominating'.

The last thing I want to do is increase the area where other players might be. Then it's just going to take even longer to find content.

The reason you're the only player is because there is no room for smaller guilds. I updated my original post with a few more ideas I didn't have time to write out last night. 

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17 minutes ago, Communist_Puppy said:

If the map was larger and I had to run around for longer than I have to now to find fights I would quit the game

Use the alerts in chat, that will tell you where enemies are.  Finding a fight with those in place is not a problem. 

Finding a lonely harvester to murder alone in the forest is, but that should be harder (you still can use your ears to listen), because once you find one, the killing is not exactly challenging most of the time. 

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27 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

No. God no.

It's 11:30 here. I think I started playing Crowfall around 10:00 this morning. In that time I have had one fight.

That is not okay. I think I'm the only player from my guild on map. I hope that doesn't count as 'dominating'.

The last thing I want to do is increase the area where other players might be. Then it's just going to take even longer to find content.

This is basically an elimination game at this point, despite ACE's efforts. Guess what, after last nights spectacular fight, (it was great), the competition is now effectively eliminated. 

You played musical chairs, and were the last with a seat. The next game hasn't started yet, so you get to sit alone with your thoughts for a bit. 

 

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5 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

This is basically an elimination game at this point, despite ACE's efforts. Guess what, after last nights spectacular fight, (it was great), the competition is now effectively eliminated. 

You played musical chairs, and were the last with a seat. The next game hasn't started yet, so you get to sit alone with your thoughts for a bit. 

 

Don't think so. It's been like that almost every day of campaign until now. I say it's more a factor of population + map size, and the maps are already too big for the pop.

Edited by nihilsupernum
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39 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

No. God no.

It's 11:30 here. I think I started playing Crowfall around 10:00 this morning. In that time I have had one fight.

That is not okay. I think I'm the only player from my guild on map. I hope that doesn't count as 'dominating'.

The last thing I want to do is increase the area where other players might be. Then it's just going to take even longer to find content.

It isnt uncommon to go hours without a single event happening.

Things get a little more crowded near primetime but during the day we probably stay under 5 ALLIANCE guys on our Keep island. Often I end up being the only body present when a enemy group does a push for our outposts near our keep.

2 days ago I settled for doing a 1v4 ambush with the help of a captain npc outpost simply because there was nobody to help me. It was fun and I managed to make them retreat after they just rushed me which was awesome considering it was a 1v4. (Died a 1-2 min later but still)

Anyway the point is this idea that big guilds are zerging the map 24/7 is clearly false.

3 guys could easily keep capping our outposts just outside our keep and pretty much camp our keep if they really settled for it during the whole day. The thing is there isnt any point to it.

Often I take a outpost waaay out of our alliance sphere of control (sometimes even in another island) early in the morning and still hold it when I come back in the afternoon 6-7 hours later.

It isnt much that big guilds control places as it is that nobody constest them.

Edited by BarriaKarl
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  • Zivu changed the title to What should Ace do to grow Crowfall?

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