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What should Ace do to grow Crowfall?


Is Crowfall close to complete in your eyes? (Anonymous)   

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Crowfall ready for a launch relatively soon?

    • Yes, Crowfall is ready for release soon!
      4
    • No, Crowfall needs a some larger adjustments before being released.
      52


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1 minute ago, nihilsupernum said:

Don't think so. It's been like that almost every day of campaign until now. I say it's more a factor of population + map size, and the maps are already too big for the pop.

It's not an issue with map size, it's an issue with how the maps are laid out. Everyone remembers when the gathering stuff first came out. We had 3 zone and all were FULL of people PvPing over resources. Maybe instead of minimizing map sizes we minimize the areas you can get the better resources?

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2 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

Don't think so. It's been like that almost every day of campaign until now. I say it's more a factor of population + map size, and the maps are already too big for the pop.

As I said before, but perhaps the musical chairs analogy was too vague.

One of the primary problems with crowfall is the players themselves.  The totally merciless behavior of "if they are in Dregs, not on our team, they are food", has driven people out of the game, many many times. Murdering everyone you see tends to have consequences.

So players that are not in large guilds have three other choices right now as I see it.

1.) Farm GR Lvl 30 fort, or lvl 15 spiders for gold (if you can find room)

2.) Get slightly better resources from Infected, (Rank 6 nodes) with the risk of being interrupted while doing so. (No loss, but you do have to find a new place if you die in a pointless gank)

3.) Leave the game for something more fun.

There is no space in dregs, the only campaign available, for the less than totally dedicated and those in guilds, and it shows in the numbers your seeing.  

 

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9 minutes ago, Zivu said:

It's not an issue with map size, it's an issue with how the maps are laid out. Everyone remembers when the gathering stuff first came out. We had 3 zone and all were FULL of people PvPing over resources. Maybe instead of minimizing map sizes we minimize the areas you can get the better resources?

They've said before they can't put everyone on one map. 

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27 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Use the alerts in chat, that will tell you where enemies are.  Finding a fight with those in place is not a problem. 

Finding a lonely harvester to murder alone in the forest is, but that should be harder (you still can use your ears to listen), because once you find one, the killing is not exactly challenging most of the time. 

Its not killing harvesters as it stands even chasing events is a meme to find consistent fights. I actually spent 2 days playing for 10 hours each day and timing the time inbetween fights. Average time to find a fight even chasing events. 1 hour 30 minutes. Bigger maps are not the solution and ACE has said they can't put all the keep and zones in 1 map. Also imagine if 2 guilds are sieging at the same time the zone just cap out instantly. Smaller maps lead to more content which leads to people logging in.

Edited by Communist_Puppy
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1 hour ago, nihilsupernum said:

 I want to encourage people to mix it up and potentially die, not be terrified of engaging because they might have to spend 20 minutes travelling. A permanent neutral outpost serves all players including solo roamers and small groups.

Um. Zones already take ~5 minutes to cross in one direction now and already feel slightly on the empty side in terms of outpost density. You want to quintuple that without adding more objectives. If I'm reading this correctly, it will now take 25 minutes - almost half an hour! - to cross a zone and with less to do there.

You and I could not be more polar opposites on this, weird.

I see that ~5 minutes as a horrible thing, as in horribly too small and fast to get a reaction. 

That means that the moment anyone steps into the spider web that is the alerts system (Kill a guard, take a pack animal, etc), they have less than five minutes before they are set upon by anyone interested in a fight. 

It basically insures that every island has uncontested total ownership by one guild or alliance, and there is no room for any other guild to contest that dominance, or USE THAT SPACE, between times they can take forts, OR kick them out in a Siege. 

That would be fine, if the world had like 20 islands for the 35 guilds on the board. Hell even 2-1 would be a massive improvement. 

You want a fight, you don't have to roam, just head off to the "enemy" Island and start tripping the wires. 

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9 minutes ago, Communist_Puppy said:

Its not killing harvesters as it stands even chasing events is a meme to find consistent fights. 

So fights basically dragged to you on a silver platter, or so crammed together they can't avoid you.  That's what you think is good game play for most. 

It might be in some games, like a MOBA, where you're not expecting to be spending time on character/team progress, but for what CF seems to be shooting for, you need time where progress can be made, which means not fighting every other minute because the wolves are bored and looking for action.

nintchdbpict000338380247.jpg

Harvesters, crafters, and other builders have to work and spend time for their content, why shouldn't the wolves have to do the same?

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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Before release:

 

- Anti Zerg Mechanics

- Class Balancing and buffing, or figure out how to nerf classes without destroying them

- Territory Control 

- Hungerdome

- Passive Perception

- Handshake Seiges

- Polish Crafting to include active and passive growth

- Make campaign worth farming in over infected

- Finish New Player Experience

- Create Crowpedia

- Create UI

- Rework and/or polish campaign rewards

- Create Guild UI In Game

- Remove Mobile Banking

- Remove Deleting items in combat

- Fill the miles and miles of empty space on these maps

- Fix Culling

- Polish performance (I feel like this has received significant improvement over the past month or two) 

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Just a personal opinion, Sacrificing XP for sieging seems like a weird mechanic, coming across XP is hard enough, dont include more grind that there needs to be it just makes the game less enjoyable specially when i need to grind for XP for PVP

Crowfall will never be a game of small guilds and thats why alliances exists, i agree witht the cap on alliances to be removed cause the more guilds are in your alliance the more chance of getting betrayed grows, just dont cap anything on alliances its unnecesary

I would like to see a mechanic for sentinels, to where you can over level your keep after level 10 and it will grant or reduce certain stat bonuses depending on which sentinel you have, ie: Gaea sentinel now only does 50% damage to allies on auroras, Zelena sentinel adds a healing explosion after death to allies only in set of a damage explosion

Small things like that can add a huge advantage if you are a small guild or a small alliance since it makes it harder for other bigger guilds to attack

Again... just my opinion

Thorns Of UxA
Kicking Crow's Butt since 11 years old

Tester since 3.0

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32 minutes ago, Communist_Puppy said:

Its not killing harvesters as it stands even chasing events is a meme to find consistent fights. I actually spent 2 days playing for 10 hours each day and timing the time inbetween fights. Average time to find a fight even chasing events. 1 hour 30 minutes. Bigger maps are not the solution and ACE has said they can't put all the keep and zones in 1 map. Also imagine if 2 guilds are sieging at the same time the zone just cap out instantly. Smaller maps lead to more content which leads to people logging in.

Keep cramming too many people together in a small space, and guess what, nobody will show up to play.

Oh wait, that's already happening. 

This is clear from the fact that most of the game population is in GR/Infected, including a large portion of the players in the "dominant" guilds. This is because everyone who steps into dregs and gets killed, immediately either jumps back to GR/Infect, or quits. 

You want to know why it's empty? It's not because it's too big to find anyone, it's because nobody is there.  You can't find anyone in a 10x10 room if it's empty.

It reminds me of the STNG episode where the ship keeps shrinking and people keep disappearing, but nobody remembers those that are gone. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remember_Me_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

Force the option of "jump back" out by closing people off from GR/Infected without first fixing the "why they leave" problem, and more will simply quit. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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36 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Keep cramming too many people together in a small space, and guess what, nobody will show up to play.

Oh wait, that's already happening. 

This is clear from the fact that most of the game population is in GR/Infected, including a large portion of the players in the "dominant" guilds. This is because everyone who steps into dregs and gets killed, immediately either jumps back to GR/Infect, or quits. 

You want to know why it's empty? It's not because it's too big to find anyone, it's because nobody is there.  You can't find anyone in a 10x10 room if it's empty.

It reminds me of the STNG episode where the ship keeps shrinking and people keep disappearing, but nobody remembers those that are gone. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remember_Me_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

Force the option of "jump back" out by closing people off from GR/Infected without first fixing the "why they leave" problem, and more will simply quit. 

By the same token, if you put people in too large a space, they won't find each other. They'll get bored because they came to play a PvP game and the only things they can find are wartribes and bog bears.

Convince me that the maps are too small right now. I just don't see it. I run around solo most of the time outside siege hour and what keeps me from playing more is that I can't find anyone else to fight.

As I said before, we had a huge siege with all the big groups in campaign on the same map last night .. and that still only took up maybe 1/4 of it.

Edited by nihilsupernum
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14 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

By the same token, if you put people in too large a space, they won't find each other. They'll get bored because they came to play a PvP game and the only things they can find are wartribes and bog bears.

Convince me that the maps are too small right now. I just don't see it. I run around solo most of the time outside siege hour and what keeps me from playing more is that I can't find anyone else to fight.

As I said before, we had a huge siege with all the big groups in campaign on the same map last night .. and that still only took up maybe 1/4 of it.

Its the RNG maps... Although it sounds like an amazing idea. it falls way to flat and theres literally 0 immersion with them, they need to either put more thought into it and redesign each parcel 1 by 1 or create a hard set map and after each full ingame seasonal year recreate another. Right now that's one of their biggest downsides, I also can only imagine how many lights/shadows/ect are going bananas under us causing FPS to suck...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KillerMike said:

Before release:

 

- Anti Zerg Mechanics

- Class Balancing and buffing, or figure out how to nerf classes without destroying them

- Territory Control 

- Hungerdome

- Passive Perception

- Handshake Seiges

- Polish Crafting to include active and passive growth

- Make campaign worth farming in over infected

- Finish New Player Experience

- Create Crowpedia

- Create UI

- Rework and/or polish campaign rewards

- Create Guild UI In Game

- Remove Mobile Banking

- Remove Deleting items in combat

- Fill the miles and miles of empty space on these maps

- Fix Culling

- Polish performance (I feel like this has received significant improvement over the past month or two) 

Thank you for the input, Im digging all of these!! Do you have any ideas for any of them? Like how to anti zerg??

Edited by Zivu
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1 hour ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Keep cramming too many people together in a small space, and guess what, nobody will show up to play.

Oh wait, that's already happening. 

This is clear from the fact that most of the game population is in GR/Infected, including a large portion of the players in the "dominant" guilds. This is because everyone who steps into dregs and gets killed, immediately either jumps back to GR/Infect, or quits. 

You want to know why it's empty? It's not because it's too big to find anyone, it's because nobody is there.  You can't find anyone in a 10x10 room if it's empty.

It reminds me of the STNG episode where the ship keeps shrinking and people keep disappearing, but nobody remembers those that are gone. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remember_Me_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

Force the option of "jump back" out by closing people off from GR/Infected without first fixing the "why they leave" problem, and more will simply quit. 

 

33 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

By the same token, if you put people in too large a space, they won't find each other. They'll get bored because they came to play a PvP game and the only things they can find are wartribes and bog bears.

Convince me that the maps are too small right now. I just don't see it. I run around solo most of the time outside siege hour and what keeps me from playing more is that I can't find anyone else to fight.

As I said before, we had a huge siege with all the big groups in campaign on the same map last night .. and that still only took up maybe 1/4 of it.

 

1 hour ago, Communist_Puppy said:

Its not killing harvesters as it stands even chasing events is a meme to find consistent fights. I actually spent 2 days playing for 10 hours each day and timing the time inbetween fights. Average time to find a fight even chasing events. 1 hour 30 minutes. Bigger maps are not the solution and ACE has said they can't put all the keep and zones in 1 map. Also imagine if 2 guilds are sieging at the same time the zone just cap out instantly. Smaller maps lead to more content which leads to people logging in.

Chill out.

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  • Zivu changed the title to What should Ace do to grow Crowfall?
2 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

By the same token, if you put people in too large a space, they won't find each other. They'll get bored because they came to play a PvP game and the only things they can find are wartribes and bog bears.

Convince me that the maps are too small right now. I just don't see it. I run around solo most of the time outside siege hour and what keeps me from playing more is that I can't find anyone else to fight.

As I said before, we had a huge siege with all the big groups in campaign on the same map last night .. and that still only took up maybe 1/4 of it.

Talking about "only 1/4 of it" makes me think you want a MOBA arena more than an MMO, where there is literally no space in the play universe that isn't occupied and useful the majority of the time.

That would be fine, IF we didn't have such a huge need for time consuming character development and build up in the form of harvesting resources from the world, but that wouldn't be very MMO either. 

I can say the maps are too EMPTY of players right now, which is far different than too small. That is in my opinion partly BECAUSE they are too small to make any real progress in them or have a place that characters can feel at home.  When we had our keep, there was a section of the territory, about 1/8th of all the Islands sizes, we could feel like was "our" territory, except it really wasn't most of the time. There was nothing about the fort directly next to us that was different about it other than proximity to our keep, AND it really didn't matter to us if someone else had it, because it wasn't a strategic advantage or disadvantage. 

It was just there.

I'm with alot of people, in that I think one of the major missing pieces is any sort of strategy mechanic rules.  Things like "Unless your are landless, you must take a camp adjacent to a fort, and connected to your keep by other parcels, before you can attempt to claim the fort." 

It's a bit like a RISK board game, BUT you don't have to go through territory, you can just move your largest army wherever you like and hit any territory that looks weak. Only limitation, timers.

To be fair, it has developed from zero strategic mechanics (Forts open 24/7) to where it is now, but it's a far cry from a "Throne war". Catan, and every other conquest game has more territory rules than CF. (Can't build roads and towns in certain places other players are, etc) 

We can debate map size all day long, actually, it's been debated for a couple of years now, and those of us who have been here for the whole thing have seen the sea-saw back and forth in an attempt to find the "right" size, only to miss the mark every time. 

Seeing how GR and Infected are almost always occupied to a capacity that if more populated starts to stall individual progress, I think it might be far better to simply build the "biggest the engine can possibly build" and try to fill it, than to keep trying to right size for a very unstable population. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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18 hours ago, Zivu said:

The next step that I'm thinking about now is removing the AOE cap or finding a way to anti zerg.

This is a tough one. 
ACE has had to answer the whole AOE cap question, along with Friendly Fire questions ALOT over the years. 

Personally, after fighting with the Gaea statue active, I think some sort of "soft" penalty for crowding might be a thing to try. 

For example, if your in combat, every time you collide with another character, you lose 25 (number to be balanced) off your stamina and gain no resolve against CC.  The effect would be that CC (Crowd control) would be far more effective.... if your in a crowd.  (Imagine that). Maybe add that type of contact as a reason to break stealth as well. 

Walk over a fallen comrade who can't retaliate, or bump into someone on your side who is rooted, you hurt your stamina.  Keep bunched up in a charge, everyone in the group is suddenly easy to CC without the resolve or stamina to recover from it,  and can then be pounded on. 

As an in combat stamina effect, it would not be easily used by trolls to for example body block allies in factions, etc. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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8 hours ago, KoKaineKid said:

I agree on just about everything you said Zivu, except the above.  There needs to be a cap on both the number of members per Guild and Alliance.  If there isn't one then Guilds will find a way to incorporate as many players as they want - no limit of Guild amount in the Alliance = zergs, no limit on Guild size = zergs.  Both frustrate new players or small Guilds/Alliances and force them to play in something that is unenjoyable.  Who will play for long if they don't feel they are having an impact or able to participate in the 'end game'.

This hurts everyone in the game because the end result is the population suffers and there is no one left to PvP against.

Alliances numers need to be capped for example 150 alliance members logged and and active at any given time, number of guilds in alliances or numbers of players in a guild should be uncapped however the maximum a zerg would be a able to activly field would be 150 since thats the cap rest will be put in a queue.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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7 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

No. God no.

It's 11:30 here. I think I started playing Crowfall around 10:00 this morning. In that time I have had one fight.

That is not okay. I think I'm the only player from my guild on map. I hope that doesn't count as 'dominating'.

The last thing I want to do is increase the area where other players might be. Then it's just going to take even longer to find content.

I find so many fights if i want them 90% of the people i come across is your alliance though. Your in the only large alliance that activly plays the game with alot of people. WB only logs in for seiges, Death only logs in for forts, CC alliance is small group of players on at a time outside of forts. Disc/Hax alliance is constantly on. Problem when u make a large alliance there becomes less and less players to fight.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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7 hours ago, Communist_Puppy said:

Its not killing harvesters as it stands even chasing events is a meme to find consistent fights. I actually spent 2 days playing for 10 hours each day and timing the time inbetween fights. Average time to find a fight even chasing events. 1 hour 30 minutes. Bigger maps are not the solution and ACE has said they can't put all the keep and zones in 1 map. Also imagine if 2 guilds are sieging at the same time the zone just cap out instantly. Smaller maps lead to more content which leads to people logging in.

bigger maps help retain newer players cause there not getting murder as constantly but yeah can bne a pain for vets who are looking for people. 
Small maps also benefit zergs when it come to POI fights and realy limits what smaller guild can do where most guild sizes are in the small/medium range so u can run them off before they even get into the game simply cause they got nothing to do.

TBH right now the game will benefited greatly if they swapped campaign over to FvFvF like it use to be before dregs, Dregs are fun and all however there need to be a FvFvF campaign to retain new players retention we need to be growing the game at this stage not making it harder for new players to get into it. I think were at the point were we tested most thing in the dregs we probaly need to atm so they should swap back to factions to try and retain player base (This should of happened when they first started beta cause alot of those players have quit already)
When we get more players we can do the GvG ones again.

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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20 minutes ago, veeshan said:

TBH right now the game will benefited greatly if they swapped campaign over to FvFvF like it use to be before dregs, Dregs are fun and all however there need to be a FvFvF campaign to retain new players retention we need to be growing the game at this stage not making it harder for new players to get into it. I think were at the point were we tested most thing in the dregs we probaly need to atm so they should swap back to factions to try and retain player base (This should of happened when they first started beta cause alot of those players have quit already)
When we get more players we can do the GvG ones again.

I am unsure if you remember player interaction was a big issue with faction play also. 

The underlying issues wont be solved by a different ruleset.

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