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What happen with the disciplines?


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On 1/6/2021 at 1:31 AM, Rexfelis said:

 If they don't take the time to figure out how to send all disciplines to the bank, then I and several others at least will be done with this game for good......  It's lazy, rushed development to push wipe after wipe on your beta testers..... Saying "we want everyone to experience the game from the beginning" is just an excuse.  People will make new characters and experience it anyway.

Yes that is how many feel
And 
Yes that is how many perceive it.  

 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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6 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

I think that would have been a better solution.

  • Old passive tree
  • Harvesting/Crafting drops some item that can be cashed in for passive XP (maybe even an existing item like dust or chaos embers).
  • Hard cap so you cannot fill out the entire tree and have to choose to specialize
  • Respec as part of VIP

I kinda like that idea myself, they could even use the existing runes AS the XP drop. You either sack it for the specific XP, OR you can equip it and lose the ability to sack.

I don't like the hard cap, I think quite frankly it's pointless, simply because exploration discs are not directly related to effective power, and there is no way a single person is going to have the time to effectively USE all those skills anyway.  Even with the old passive system the idea was that after years of work, you would theoretically "could" train every skill. 

The converse is also true however.  Since dominion dust is the real impediment to the cycle, ACE could basically give everyone a Universal Basic Dust amount of a couple per week and call that the replacement for the passive system.  Every month you get enough dust to either sell or trade in for runes with other players, and can upgrade one from green to blue, or whatever.

Heck make it even simpler, and simply give a daily 1k gold allowance for the UBI to replace passive training, and let people decide if that's what they want to spend it on. Logging in after a month away, and having 30k gold sitting in your bank, enough for a green-blue belt or rune, or enough to go and outfit yourself in the shops if you  are totally disinterested in the explorer/economy side of the game. 

I really think they have enough sinks (rune upgrades, belts, keep war tables) that it wouldn't cause hyperinflation.  If that did become a problem, crank up the sink prices, or reduce the UBI amount. 

 

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1 hour ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Well at least now I understand your "umpteenth time" comment. 

Totally disagree about the impact, since passive offered almost nothing for achievers, and now there is quite a bit to work towards, so that changes rather dramatically how it feels while doing the same things. Specifically, when you drop a new harvest/craft rune, you get a sense of progress and small dopamine hit that was totally missing from the passive "experience" (if you could even call it that).

You might be surprised to realize, there are actually a set of people out there who enjoy that process. It's what many of the phone and casual MMO's games appeal to, and make a great deal of money on if done right. "No grind" certainly has an appeal, but it leaves out, or gates behind crafting RNG, the achiever's emotional fix.

Prior to this, you were totally reliant on others for your own progress, or time you couldn't speed up, which while I appreciate a certain level of interdependence, the volume and level of cross requirements all tied to finding the right passively trained person/group to support you, was very daunting and discouraging. 

The content itself hasn't changed much, but the way and how it feels as you move through it has. 

Achievers will burn through this limited content quickly. How many legendary blacksmith characters does an individual or guild need? What comes next?

As there is no full loot and vessels/disciplines are permanent (even more so with 6.4), players will be hitting the content/progress wall faster then before. Which I have no issue with as I believe players should have control of their progress and experience, but there is 20 years of evidence that once players reach the wall, they start looking for something new.

The game has to have more to it then casino RNG PVE systems. For those looking at this game because of "Throne War" marketing, my guess is they aren't coming to grind mindlessly. Their heavy focus on trying to make character building and generic PVE systems complex isn't going to cut it. Especially when neither is complex.

PVP in this game is way behind compared to themepark MMOs and older open world MMos. Ganking those doing PVE and timed siege isn't going to cut it. My last hope is they look to other games for some sort of conquest system to give more meaning to PVP. If they could also come up with actual PVP progression, that would help as well. All individual progress is PVE based.

Passive Training flopped. Drawn out interdependence has flopped. Player run economy is laughable. Limited PVP content is dev directed (no sand in the box). Defeating enemies is left to a leaderboard. No full loot or burning an enemy house to the ground.

I want the feels of achievement and progress, but so far it isn't even coming close for me. Wish I could lower my standards, but played too many great games to do so.

For those that love putting coins in a slot machine, this game must be hitting the right receptors, but I don't like my good feelings being left to chance.

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1 hour ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I don't like the hard cap, I think quite frankly it's pointless, simply because exploration discs are not directly related to effective power, and there is no way a single person is going to have the time to effectively USE all those skills anyway.  Even with the old passive system the idea was that after years of work, you would theoretically "could" train every skill. 

The hard cap serves an important purpose. It makes you choose something to define your account. It lets you feel at least somewhat unique for having picked skinning rather than mining or quarrying, or chosen mounted speed bonus instead of hard control reduction.

It also means one extremely dedicated player can't do everything the way they can right now, given enough resources.

It's true that in the old system there was no cap, but IMO, there should have been.

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9 hours ago, APE said:

Achievers will burn through this limited content quickly. How many legendary blacksmith characters does an individual or guild need? What comes next?

As there is no full loot and vessels/disciplines are permanent (even more so with 6.4), players will be hitting the content/progress wall faster then before. Which I have no issue with as I believe players should have control of their progress and experience, but there is 20 years of evidence that once players reach the wall, they start looking for something new.

The game has to have more to it then casino RNG PVE systems. For those looking at this game because of "Throne War" marketing, my guess is they aren't coming to grind mindlessly. Their heavy focus on trying to make character building and generic PVE systems complex isn't going to cut it. Especially when neither is complex.

PVP in this game is way behind compared to themepark MMOs and older open world MMos. Ganking those doing PVE and timed siege isn't going to cut it. My last hope is they look to other games for some sort of conquest system to give more meaning to PVP. If they could also come up with actual PVP progression, that would help as well. All individual progress is PVE based.

Passive Training flopped. Drawn out interdependence has flopped. Player run economy is laughable. Limited PVP content is dev directed (no sand in the box). Defeating enemies is left to a leaderboard. No full loot or burning an enemy house to the ground.

I want the feels of achievement and progress, but so far it isn't even coming close for me. Wish I could lower my standards, but played too many great games to do so.

For those that love putting coins in a slot machine, this game must be hitting the right receptors, but I don't like my good feelings being left to chance.

Those other games that blended PvE & PvP well are mostly still out there. I spend more hours per week playing classic DAoC than I do testing Crowfall. In DAoC we progressed both in PvE & crafting to improve our gear and in PvP by upping our Realm Rank (by killing enemy players and capturing Keeps) to gain better stats.  Persistence payed off, and the Leader board tracked it by latest week (so new players / guilds could 'win') and by all time since the server launched. 

I'm #4 among all time Armsmen on my server. The desire to stay up there and even improve keeps me coming out every week. 

Crowfall needs to become MUCH better at providing the feel of achievement and progress to keep players like me more than a few weeks.

Edited by MacDeath

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7 hours ago, APE said:

Achievers will burn through this limited content quickly. How many legendary blacksmith characters does an individual or guild need? What comes next?

As there is no full loot and vessels/disciplines are permanent (even more so with 6.4), players will be hitting the content/progress wall faster then before. Which I have no issue with as I believe players should have control of their progress and experience, but there is 20 years of evidence that once players reach the wall, they start looking for something new.

The game has to have more to it then casino RNG PVE systems. For those looking at this game because of "Throne War" marketing, my guess is they aren't coming to grind mindlessly. Their heavy focus on trying to make character building and generic PVE systems complex isn't going to cut it. Especially when neither is complex.

PVP in this game is way behind compared to themepark MMOs and older open world MMos. Ganking those doing PVE and timed siege isn't going to cut it. My last hope is they look to other games for some sort of conquest system to give more meaning to PVP. If they could also come up with actual PVP progression, that would help as well. All individual progress is PVE based.

Passive Training flopped. Drawn out interdependence has flopped. Player run economy is laughable. Limited PVP content is dev directed (no sand in the box). Defeating enemies is left to a leaderboard. No full loot or burning an enemy house to the ground.

I want the feels of achievement and progress, but so far it isn't even coming close for me. Wish I could lower my standards, but played too many great games to do so.

For those that love putting coins in a slot machine, this game must be hitting the right receptors, but I don't like my good feelings being left to chance.

I don't know that 5 primary harvesting professions, (Ore,Logger,Stone,Skins,Grave digging) at what I estimate solo play farming at current levels for both runes (30hrs) and belts (100 hrs ext) for a total of 650 hours, PLUS  (blacksmith, weaponsmith, runecrafter, leather worker, woodworker, jewel maker, necromancer) also at 130hrs per (910 hours) plus actually playing the games PvP side and all the non-farming activity between all that is exactly "quickly, 

 In terms of the average full time 40 work week, that translates into 40+ weeks of full time work to finish. 

You are correct, the average well organized dependent on crafting ALT accounts and harvesting ALT accounts, are going to sort that in a few weeks, but only because somebody put in the time to do it. Then there is the actual time needed to use the skills for what they are intended, harvesting materials, and building equipment, which is a never ending cycle for a guild. 

A solo achiever is not going to "burn through" that quickly by any stretch of the imagination, and while the entire guild might focus on getting one or two of each to max level for the guilds benefit, there will be little gold trickle down for private/solo accounts to do the same.

 

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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2 hours ago, MacDeath said:

Those other games that blended PvE & PvP well are mostly still out there. I spend more hours per week playing classic DAoC than I do testing Crowfall. In DAoC we progressed both in PvE & crafting to improve our gear and in PvP by upping our Realm Rank (by killing enemy players and capturing Keeps) to gain better stats.  Persistence payed off, and the Leader board tracked it by latest week (so new players / guilds could 'win') and by all time since the server launched. 

I'm #4 among all time Armsmen on my server. The desire to stay up there and even improve keeps we coming out every week. 

Crowfall needs to become MUCH better at providing the feel of achievement and progress to keep players like me more than a few weeks.

DAoC did so many things well for the time and considering the resources that team had compared to Crowfall/Camelot Unchained, it amazes me that neither game is as content rich or launched by now despite all the advantages. Wish I could play DAoC or Phoenix, but tried and the rubber banding and outdated performance gets to me. Usually don't go back to a game once I move on. So many great systems though that other games should of copied. ESO at least got some of the RvR elements.

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1 hour ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I don't know that 5 primary harvesting professions, (Ore,Logger,Stone,Skins,Grave digging) at what I estimate solo play farming at current levels for both runes (30hrs) and belts (100 hrs ext) for a total of 650 hours, PLUS  (blacksmith, weaponsmith, runecrafter, leather worker, woodworker, jewel maker, necromancer) also at 130hrs per (910 hours) plus actually playing the games PvP side and all the non-farming activity between all that is exactly "quickly, 

 In terms of the average full time 40 work week, that translates into 40+ weeks of full time work to finish. 

You are correct, the average well organized dependent on crafting ALT accounts and harvesting ALT accounts, are going to sort that in a few weeks, but only because somebody put in the time to do it. Then there is the actual time needed to use the skills for what they are intended, harvesting materials, and building equipment, which is a never ending cycle for a guild. 

A solo achiever is not going to "burn through" that quickly by any stretch of the imagination, and while the entire guild might focus on getting one or two of each to max level for the guilds benefit, there will be little gold trickle down for private/solo accounts to do the same.

All likely true, but for someone like me that looks at Crowfall as a PVP game, where is the progress, achievement, and overall content that isn't ganking or timed with neither be remotely complex.

They have and continue to focus heavily on character stat sheets and RNG PVE grinds. Which I understand as JTC and Blair seem to be comfortable with and enjoy such things, but for those that actually want to have a fuller PVP experience, I don't know why they'd look at this game.

By the time they reswizzle the starting experience and the same few PVE systems for the whatever time, I hope they have time left for the rest of the game. If not, they should change their marketing to be hitting rocks and staring at crafting UI with casino noises.

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On 1/8/2021 at 12:42 PM, coolster50 said:

You know, they could've kept the passive tree and added this system on top of it. Either wait months to cap your stats, or grind for a month and cap your stats. Best of both worlds, imo.

That would be the ideal, some type of hybrid system.

tiPrpwh.png

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On 1/5/2021 at 7:31 PM, Rexfelis said:

I've been playing mmos since D&D online started just before Asheron's Call and none of the games had multiple "beta" wipes like this. 

Of the older MMOs, during Closed Beta, plenty did. During Open Beta, I couldn't find any.  Very early MMOs would have stat resets and wipes even after release (ex: Ultima Online reset notoriety gains/losses several time during the first few months).

Of the newer MMOs, all the 'early access' and 'soft launches' make it really hard to tell where wipes happened. 

 

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