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TL;DR

Vessel durabilty

Parcel Gating and building resource upkeep

PvP Ranks 

Replace caravans with either wagons and mounts or building materials apply a stacking slow effect when in inventory 

Revamp adventure parcels with loot chests and world bosses

 Increase Fall Damage

Domination Dust can be created 

Runetools can be used at rare quality harvesting exploration instead of epic

 Reimplement stricter Hunger penalities

Implement Cooking or General crafting discpline

Convert God's Reach into Hubworld

 

 

Vessel Durabilty

With the proposed change to vessel progression, the problem persists that eventually everyone will have a legendary vessel with legendary disciplines, hurting the rune making  and necromancy industry. Vessels should have durabilty even if absurdly high. When a vessel breaks the player is reduced to a crow and revives as an unarmored common vessel.

Parcel Gating and building resource upkeep

The base parcel that all EKs start with allow for the placement of a cottage, a vendor and some chests. After that I think there should be a requirment to place more parcels in the form of divine favor to play on the idea of the divine right to rule. A crow must prove they are worthy of expanding their kingdom. Beyond that placed buildings should have an upfront cost of dust to place and an upkeep cost in the form of a fraction of the resources used to make them, If the material upkeep isnt met the deed and all the items return to your inventory.

PVP ranks

PvP should have ranks and titles associated with them. All players start at rank 1 in pvp rank. You increase in rank by killing players of the same or higher rank but your rank decreases by being killed by those of similar or lower rank. 

Replace caravans with building materials apply a stacking slow effect when in inventory 

Caravans as they are are slow and navigate poorly, in order to penalize resource running a solution would be to have building materials apply a movement reduction and stealth block debuff while it is in your inventory that stacks the more materials you place in your inventory.

Revamp adventure parcels with loot chests and world bosses

With the exception of finding pigs to run there isnt much incentive to run in canyons, placing loot chests at outposts seemed to increase the desire to capture, a similar approach can be taken to adventure parcels. Revamp the adventure parcels with enemies similar to the barbarians camps, adding loot chests in areas guarded by boss npcs. The boss has to be defeated and the area captured for the chest to be looted, similar to outposts.

 Increase Fall Damage

Falling from the top of a canyon to the bottom should reduce your health more.

Domination Dust can be crafted

Domination dust is a barrier to progression that only exists for harvesters and crafters, the same way  thrall souls being defeated embody the spirit of combat disciplines, harvest and crafting should embody the spirit of harvest and crafting beyond gold. As well as buying domination dust, it should also be able to be crafted from a combination of ethereal dust chaos embers blood and soul essence.

Runetools can be used at rare quality harvesting exploration instead of epic

The fact that it takes 12 domination dust in order to be able to use advanced runetools encourages farming in the infected world band since intermediate tools are ineffective at higher ranks. Another solution besides making domination dust craft able is simply lowering the needed discipline quality to rare instead of epic lowering the domination dust cost to 3 instead of 12.

 Reimplement stricter Hunger penalities

An army marches on its stomach. Stricter penalties for hunger add a logistical issue to guilds and adds to the survival aspects of the game.

Implement Cooking discpline

Cooking should be a discipline that can alter the nourishment and buffs that food recieve when making it.

Convert God's Reach into Hubworld

Once the player has finished the New Player Experience or skipped it at character creation they should be transported to the true Gods reach. God's Reach should be a hubworld that connects to the other world bands to create a more seamless experience than logging out and changing worlds in the lobby. The hubworld can be the new Castle, implemented as a free city, surrounded by the older town like free city which is then surrounded by the three temples(Sun,Earth, Moon). The free cities and temples would have vendor slots with some having favor requiremnets based on positon. Inside each temple there could be a Moongate that brings up the world band slection UI including the players EK. The free cities could even have slots that would allow players to place their guild banner or a moongate to their EK if favor requirements were met.

Edited by Kendread
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10 minutes ago, Kendread said:

TL;DR

Vessel Durabilty

With the proposed change to vessel progression, the problem persists that eventually everyone will have a legendary vessel with legendary disciplines, hurting the runemkaing and necromancy industry. Vessels should have durabilty even if absurdly high. When a vessel breaks the player is reduced to a crow and revives as an unarmored common vessel.

The appeal of Vessels is that they're a progression checkpoint. It's a place where you can rest and say "whatever happens, at least I have achieved this level of progression and have at least this much base effectiveness that I can't lose, even if I die 10000 times in the next campaign". I get what you're saying about the industry though. I think I'd prefer a constant (if slight) ratcheting up of necro + runemaking effectiveness so players can continue to eke out more and more performance out of each new vessel.

15 minutes ago, Kendread said:

PVP ranks

PvP should have ranks and titles associated with them. All players start at rank 1 in pvp rank. You increase in rank by killing players of the same or higher rank but you rank decreases by being killed by those of similar or lower rank. 

Sure? I don't see the appeal of PvP ranks because they can be gamed easily and tend to not be a good measure of skill, but .. I mean, I guess it's better than not having them. It's not like they would mean anything one way or the other.

18 minutes ago, Kendread said:

. Increase Fall Damage

Falling from the top of a conyon to the bottom should reduce your health more.

I think a 60% cap is probably fair. What is it now? 40? I wouldn't mind if we could fall a bit farther before starting to trigger fall damage though. Sometimes I swear I take damage just from running down hill or hopping off a small rock..

19 minutes ago, Kendread said:

 Reimplement stricter Hunger penalities

An army marches on its stomach. Stricter penaliteis for hunger add a logistical issue to guilds and adds to the survival aspects of the game.

I'd be okay with this provided the rest of the systems supported it in a way that wasn't too oppressive to players (eg. a single player is able to refill their full meter by chopping down 1-2 trees or killing 1-2 animals, even if those trees/animals have a longer respawn). I don't want to be spending 50% (or even 10%) of my playtime trying to manage my chicken ticker.

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25 minutes ago, Kendread said:

Vessel Durabilty

With the proposed change to vessel progression, the problem persists that eventually everyone will have a legendary vessel with legendary disciplines, hurting the runemkaing and necromancy industry. Vessels should have durabilty even if absurdly high. When a vessel breaks the player is reduced to a crow and revives as an unarmored common vessel.

I think it would be possible in the new system.

The main counter against vessel durability was losing your character was a big no-no. But now, simply requiring you to equip another vessel wouldnt be too much to ask. Plus it would keep the Guilds in a constant need for high level bodyparts. It wouldnt be any different from a high level item like jewlery.

Edited by BarriaKarl
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1 hour ago, Kendread said:

Vessel Durabilty

With the proposed change to vessel progression, the problem persists that eventually everyone will have a legendary vessel with legendary disciplines, hurting the runemkaing and necromancy industry. Vessels should have durabilty even if absurdly high. When a vessel breaks the player is reduced to a crow and revives as an unarmored common vessel.

 

Right Idea..... I'd just go about it differently.

 

Instead of having vessel durability.. Why not just tie a vessel to a specific campaign.... Then you'd have a month or so of use and when the campaign ended so does the vessel. Then when it's time to join a new campaign, you need to buy/make a new one.

 

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3 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

 

Sure? I don't see the appeal of PvP ranks because they can be gamed easily and tend to not be a good measure of skill, but .. I mean, I guess it's better than not having them. It's not like they would mean anything one way or the other.

 

Heavily disagree

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2 hours ago, FlyingDutchman said:

Instead of having vessel durability.. Why not just tie a vessel to a specific campaign.... Then you'd have a month or so of use and when the campaign ended so does the vessel. Then when it's time to join a new campaign, you need to buy/make a new one.

I would have preferred this, along with skills being tied to crows instead of vessel levels and passives being tied to campaigns. 

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Not a big fan of vessel durability as a concept.

The recent changes to vessels are part of a long line of vessel changes to move them away from "just another item" to "the only permanent progression in the game"

That's exactly what they are, what they do, and the RNG in the crafting process under those structures combined with the rarity of legendary parts means the "problem" people have with them is actually a roundabout natural catch up mechanism over time.

You're going to get that legendary vessel eventually. This means that at that point the only vessels you're going to want to build are legendaries for the chance at a better roll. This means that every vessel that doesn't hit that mark goes on a vendor or guild bank somewhere. However, getting that perfect roll legendary, with perfect roll philo stone, and perfect rolls on every body part, for every slot on your account is no small undertaking. You may *eventually* reach that state, but getting there is analagous to training every skill in the old passive tree, combined with the RNG nature of the crafting system. Sure it is an achievable goal, but it is an extremely long term goal unlike how any other gear system in the game works. Moving from a green weapon to a blue isn't really a progression system. It's an economic one. You use what you can afford when you're breaking the old one. Vessels and discs on the other hand aren't meant to be economic systems as much as they are progression systems. If they're not "sticky" they can't properly do their job.

In effect this means that vessels become cheaper over time at a rate directly related to the overall average vessel strength of the player base, and lower end graves will also clear out over time to make room for new players who actually need them.

This is a good thing in my opinion because of the unique space vessels occupy in the stat pie. They're fundamental attribute lattices upon which all other items rest, and those items decay. Vessels and discs, more than gear, define fundamental parameters of a build that functions very much the same no matter what gear is attached to it. Especially with the new attribute system it is entirely possible that some builds are simply nonfunctional without the customization done to that build's vessel.

Having a structure in which there is no permanent progression at all takes the problem people already have with campaigns (I feel like the effort of building up another keep over and over is repetitive and pointless) and extends it to every character as well. The nebulous "crow" was originally that permanent throughpoint, but now that it has been removed from the game (there is no passive training to express the crow) vessels and discs are what have replaced it.

IMO it is a general good that somewhere in this system there is a permanent element, especially now that passive training is removed, to reward the act of overall progress regardless of how well you're doing at the moment.

On top of that, Crowfall's gear system is already significantly lossy and at odds with chasing campaign goals. Those who no longer need vessels have one less thing on their plate to farm, and as such have more time avaliable to PVP, and isn't that the goal of all that progression?

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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7 hours ago, FlyingDutchman said:

 

Right Idea..... I'd just go about it differently.

 

Instead of having vessel durability.. Why not just tie a vessel to a specific campaign.... Then you'd have a month or so of use and when the campaign ended so does the vessel. Then when it's time to join a new campaign, you need to buy/make a new one.

 

Please god no! This an MMO, and MMOs have to have some persistence. Our vessels are the only hope we have of anything that outlasts a campaign. This is NOT meant to be an MOBA game.

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43 minutes ago, BucDen said:

What are some examples of MMOs where PVP ranks aren't gamed and are a good measure of skill?

Well, yes, I will also game the system, And then I will provide feedback on how I / we gamed the system so ACE can change things if they think it needs to be changed.

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15 hours ago, Staff said:

Heavily disagree

That's fine. How would you implement ranks fairly then?

  • Based on KDA? Favours gank squads that take easy kills like 5v1s and then run away.
  • Kills + Assists only? Favours classes that get lots of tags. Doesn't reward high single-target damage classes as much. Favours players that participate in large fights over small fights.
  • Damage + Healing? Doesn't reward tanks or scouts. Favours big groups over small ones
  • Any system that punishes deaths: Incentivizes players to avoid fights until they're sure they won't die
  • Any system that doesn't punish deaths: Mostly measures dedication + playtime, not skill
  • Some system that counts the number of players on each 'side' in an engagement and rewards rank based on some formula? (eg. 5 beats 10, all 5 get a huge rank boost. All 10 lose a huge amount of rank) This leads to unhealthy social dynamics. basically: "You suck. Go away. We don't want you playing with us. We can rank higher without you"
  • Fair #s arena ranking only? Well that's better, but then we're not playing Crowfall any more. We're playing 5v5 arena with 5v5 arena rules.

I just don't see a way to do it that all players will respect as being fair, or a measure of whatever they value in the game. There are too many different playstyles in Crowfall.

Edited by nihilsupernum
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1 hour ago, nihilsupernum said:

That's fine. How would you implement ranks fairly then?

  • Based on KDA? Favours gank squads that take easy kills like 5v1s and then run away.
  • Kills + Assists only? Favours classes that get lots of tags. Doesn't reward high single-target damage classes as much. Favours players that participate in large fights over small fights.
  • Damage + Healing? Doesn't reward tanks or scouts. Favours big groups over small ones
  • Any system that punishes deaths: Incentivizes players to avoid fights until they're sure they won't die
  • Any system that doesn't punish deaths: Mostly measures dedication + playtime, not skill
  • Some system that counts the number of players on each 'side' in an engagement and rewards rank based on some formula? (eg. 5 beats 10, all 5 get a huge rank boost. All 10 lose a huge amount of rank) This leads to unhealthy social dynamics. basically: "You suck. Go away. We don't want you playing with us. We can rank higher without you"
  • Fair #s arena ranking only? Well that's better, but then we're not playing Crowfall any more. We're playing 5v5 arena with 5v5 arena rules.

I just don't see a way to do it that all players will respect as being fair, or a measure of whatever they value in the game. There are too many different playstyles in Crowfall.

We don't only have to measure based on KDA, we could measure based on metrics like most damage done, damage taken, healing done, healing taken, dots applied, time in stealth near enemies. These could all contribute to an overall PvP score as well as playstyle specific rankings(best healer, best scout, etc.)We know the game already measures damage contributors and overwhelming odds so a 5v1 gank squad most likely wouldn't score if they are on equal or higher ranking, while a 5v4 would probably just take a slight hit. As far as unhealthy social dynamics go, that would already be the case even without the system as this is a PvP game at heart, I'm sure there have already been cases of the blame game when a keep was lost or wasn't taken.

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20 hours ago, Kendread said:

TL;DR

Vessel durabilty

Parcel Gating and building resource upkeep

PvP Ranks 

Replace caravans with either wagons and mounts or building materials apply a stacking slow effect when in inventory 

Revamp adventure parcels with loot chests and world bosses

 Increase Fall Damage

Domination Dust can be created 

Runetools can be used at rare quality harvesting exploration instead of epic

 Reimplement stricter Hunger penalities

Implement Cooking or General crafting discpline

Convert God's Reach into Hubworld

 

 

Vessel Durability

With the proposed change to vessel progression, the problem persists that eventually everyone will have a legendary vessel with legendary disciplines, hurting the rune making  and necromancy industry. Vessels should have durability even if absurdly high. When a vessel breaks the player is reduced to a crow and revives as an unarmored common vessel.

Parcel Gating and building resource upkeep

The base parcel that all EKs start with allow for the placement of a cottage, a vendor and some chests. After that I think there should be a requirment to place more parcels in the form of divine favor to play on the idea of the divine right to rule. A crow must prove they are worthy of expanding their kingdom. Beyond that placed buildings should have an upfront cost of dust to place and an upkeep cost in the form of a fraction of the resources used to make them, If the material upkeep isnt met the deed and all the items return to your inventory.

PVP ranks

PvP should have ranks and titles associated with them. All players start at rank 1 in pvp rank. You increase in rank by killing players of the same or higher rank but your rank decreases by being killed by those of similar or lower rank. 

Replace caravans with building materials apply a stacking slow effect when in inventory 

Caravans as they are are slow and navigate poorly, in order to penalize resource running a solution would be to have building materials apply a movement reduction and stealth block debuff while it is in your inventory that stacks the more materials you place in your inventory.

Revamp adventure parcels with loot chests and world bosses

With the exception of finding pigs to run there isnt much incentive to run in canyons, placing loot chests at outposts seemed to increase the desire to capture, a similar approach can be taken to adventure parcels. Revamp the adventure parcels with enemies similar to the barbarians camps, adding loot chests in areas guarded by boss npcs. The boss has to be defeated and the area captured for the chest to be looted, similar to outposts.

 Increase Fall Damage

Falling from the top of a canyon to the bottom should reduce your health more.

Domination Dust can be crafted

Domination dust is a barrier to progression that only exists for harvesters and crafters, the same way  thrall souls being defeated embody the spirit of combat disciplines, harvest and crafting should embody the spirit of harvest and crafting beyond gold. As well as buying domination dust, it should also be able to be crafted from a combination of ethereal dust chaos embers blood and soul essence.

Runetools can be used at rare quality harvesting exploration instead of epic

The fact that it takes 12 domination dust in order to be able to use advanced runetools encourages farming in the infected world band since intermediate tools are ineffective at higher ranks. Another solution besides making domination dust craft able is simply lowering the needed discipline quality to rare instead of epic lowering the domination dust cost to 3 instead of 12.

 Reimplement stricter Hunger penalities

An army marches on its stomach. Stricter penalties for hunger add a logistical issue to guilds and adds to the survival aspects of the game.

Implement Cooking discpline

Cooking should be a discipline that can alter the nourishment and buffs that food recieve when making it.

Convert God's Reach into Hubworld

Once the player has finished the New Player Experience or skipped it at character creation they should be transported to the true Gods reach. God's Reach should be a hubworld that connects to the other world bands to create a more seamless experience than logging out and changing worlds in the lobby. The hubworld can be the new Castle, implemented as a free city, surrounded by the older town like free city which is then surrounded by the three temples(Sun,Earth, Moon). The free cities and temples would have vendor slots with some having favor requiremnets based on positon. Inside each temple there could be a Moongate that brings up the world band slection UI including the players EK. The free cities could even have slots that would allow players to place their guild banner or a moongate to their EK if favor requirements were met.

Vessel durability.  Not needed.  I don't like hypothetical "when everyone has everything, its going to be dull" arguments, because I don't think the person making them fully understands just how deep that hole would be. 

Start with 6 slots, so six legendaries required to fill that. Add in that more slots are not only possible, but something very probable to be in the store, so lets say the maximum limit of vessel slots lines up with all the possible combinations of race/class.  That's somewhere north of 36 (12 races, 3 classes minimum/race)

Take into account you can 'upgrade' sideways. as in, you can take your current legendary vessel, and apply a different legendary vessel that is better, and I don't think you get to the end of it for years. 

I like the idea of dom dust being a craftable thing, and I really like the idea of the souls being the tie in.  Currently the need for those souls is very low, and having a recipe that turned X souls (lower than the current 160 to sell for gold) into a dust, or similar.

Right now you can sort of do that at 25gp/soul, but it's not the most efficient thing to farm. 


Not app

 

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7 hours ago, MacDeath said:

Well, yes, I will also game the system, And then I will provide feedback on how I / we gamed the system so ACE can change things if they think it needs to be changed.

I'm very stupid and I have no idea how this answers my question that you replied to. :(

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9 hours ago, BucDen said:

What are some examples of MMOs where PVP ranks aren't gamed and are a good measure of skill?

eso, also i talk about this in my pvp ranks thread you can find that here 

 

4 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

That's fine. How would you implement ranks fairly then?

  • Based on KDA? Favours gank squads that take easy kills like 5v1s and then run away.
  • Kills + Assists only? Favours classes that get lots of tags. Doesn't reward high single-target damage classes as much. Favours players that participate in large fights over small fights.
  • Damage + Healing? Doesn't reward tanks or scouts. Favours big groups over small ones
  • Any system that punishes deaths: Incentivizes players to avoid fights until they're sure they won't die
  • Any system that doesn't punish deaths: Mostly measures dedication + playtime, not skill
  • Some system that counts the number of players on each 'side' in an engagement and rewards rank based on some formula? (eg. 5 beats 10, all 5 get a huge rank boost. All 10 lose a huge amount of rank) This leads to unhealthy social dynamics. basically: "You suck. Go away. We don't want you playing with us. We can rank higher without you"
  • Fair #s arena ranking only? Well that's better, but then we're not playing Crowfall any more. We're playing 5v5 arena with 5v5 arena rules.

I just don't see a way to do it that all players will respect as being fair, or a measure of whatever they value in the game. There are too many different playstyles in Crowfall.

hi i address this is my thread here 

 

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10 hours ago, BucDen said:

What are some examples of MMOs where PVP ranks aren't gamed and are a good measure of skill?

I like PVP ranks or more so any form of PVP progression (titles, cosmetics, ranks, PVP specific powers/passives/gear, etc).

I don't see any of that having to reflect "skill" as these types of games require a variety of skills. Defeating someone in PVP doesn't exactly mean I'm better without looking at the list of variables. This isn't a eSport game with attention to balance and making the most fair competitive experience possible.

For me, I'd simply like something I could work towards as a PVP specific goal that is mine. Even if it doesn't mean I'm the best gamer ever, at least I might eventually earn a particular rank, title or insert reward.

If a system could be built to attempt to reward risk/reward and skill, I'd be all for that as well.

DAoC has PVP ranks/progression that unlocks such thing and when I played it wasn't gamed. At least not enough for it to be an issue. Today it might be different with how gamers are, but any system/game has issues and doesn't mean they should be dismissed or we'd have nothing.

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6 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

That's fine. How would you implement ranks fairly then?

  • Based on KDA? Favours gank squads that take easy kills like 5v1s and then run away.
  • Kills + Assists only? Favours classes that get lots of tags. Doesn't reward high single-target damage classes as much. Favours players that participate in large fights over small fights.
  • Damage + Healing? Doesn't reward tanks or scouts. Favours big groups over small ones
  • Any system that punishes deaths: Incentivizes players to avoid fights until they're sure they won't die
  • Any system that doesn't punish deaths: Mostly measures dedication + playtime, not skill
  • Some system that counts the number of players on each 'side' in an engagement and rewards rank based on some formula? (eg. 5 beats 10, all 5 get a huge rank boost. All 10 lose a huge amount of rank) This leads to unhealthy social dynamics. basically: "You suck. Go away. We don't want you playing with us. We can rank higher without you"
  • Fair #s arena ranking only? Well that's better, but then we're not playing Crowfall any more. We're playing 5v5 arena with 5v5 arena rules.

I just don't see a way to do it that all players will respect as being fair, or a measure of whatever they value in the game. There are too many different playstyles in Crowfall.

As I mentioned above, ranks and PVP rewards don't have to be fair as they can simply be a form of progression tied to PVP. Titles, ranks, gear, disciplines/powers/passives/talents, cosmetics, etc.

I kill someone, I get a point and slowly work my way to whatever reward. No penalties. Relatively simple.

There is plenty that could be tried to make it "fair" but any system will have flaws. These games aren't fair so that concept should be thrown out the window. With strong broken classes/builds, zergs running down smaller numbers, people throwing money at the screen, no lifers outpacing casuals, it will never be fair. There is no way to truly gauge someone's "skill" in these games without honing in on a specific metric.

Things that could potentially work for a dynamic rank system:

  • Kill a player equal or above in rank gain a point.
  • Die to a player lower, lose a point.
  • Diminishing returns. Can only earn a point from the same player once per hour or play session.
  • Other games have figured out how to split rewards based on number of players on each side be it 1vX or 50v50.
    • If Joe Smoe is worth 50 points and 50 people collectively defeat him, 1 point each. If 5 people defeat him, they each get 10.

WoW, DAoC, SWG, ESO, WAR, Aion, GW2, Lineage 2 have rankings, I'm sure there are more. None are perfect but IMO added more then any gaming the system harmed.

Albion Online's leaderboards are a great "ranking" system and are just tracking who did what the most which reflects some effort/skill for sure. Shows what players were worth, what they were wearing/carrying, how many attacked them, guild battles, etc. This would fit Crowfall perfectly and removes a lot of the mystery of who is doing what and perceived fairness (or not) of gaming. When Timmy says he was zerged by a meany guild and they say no no no, can easily see what happened.

Edited by APE
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Typical situation in Crowfall: a fort fight

The guards are down. Your group has just captured the circle.
Your scout on the roof reports many enemies incoming. It's 16, the same size as your group.
Your commander calls to pull tight into one corner to hide.
Your scout calls that they're moving around the back of the fort to the east side.
Your commander barks orders: "I want tanks at the east choke. Ranged stay back and get ready to dps the opening. Other melee keep an eye on the flank and wait for my signal"
The enemy pushes in and everything goes as planned. The tanks hold. The enemy can't break through. The ranged dps rain fire and ice on them. The melee finish the ones that try to flank. The healers keep everyone alive. They die. 
 

Who deserves pvp rank here?

  • The ranged dps who dealt the bulk of the damage and hit the most enemies?
  • The tanks that enabled them to do that?
  • The healers that kept the tanks alive and enabled them to hold?
  • The melee covering the flank that didn't get as much dps in?
  • The scout reporting the enemy's position?
  • The commander directing everything?
  • The enemies, who dealt damage but didn't get any kills?

My point is: There's a lot going on. Whatever you decide to use for pvp ranking, it's probably not fair to one group or other, and it's probably not telling the whole story.

That said, I'm not against it. It would be better than nothing, probably.

Edited by nihilsupernum
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11 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

Typical situation in Crowfall: a fort fight

The guards are down. Your group has just captured the circle.
Your scout on the roof reports many enemies incoming. It's 16, the same size as your group.
Your commander calls to pull tight into one corner to hide.
Your scout calls that they're moving around the back of the fort to the east side.
Your commander barks orders: "I want tanks at the east choke. Ranged stay back and get ready to dps the opening. Other melee keep an eye on the flank and wait for my signal"
The enemy pushes in and everything goes as planned. The tanks hold. The enemy can't break through. The ranged dps rain fire and ice on them. The melee finish the ones that try to flank. The healers keep everyone alive. They die. 
 

Who deserves pvp rank here?

  • The ranged dps who dealt the bulk of the damage and hit the most enemies?
  • The tanks that enabled them to do that?
  • The healers that kept the tanks alive and enabled them to hold?
  • The melee covering the flank that didn't get as much dps in?
  • The scout reporting the enemy's position?
  • The commander directing everything?
  • The enemies, who dealt damage but didn't get any kills?

My point is: There's a lot going on. Whatever you decide to use for pvp ranking, it's probably not fair to one group or other, and it's probably not telling the whole story.

That said, I'm not against it. It would be better than nothing, probably.

already covered this in my thread, you can find it here 

 

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46 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

Typical situation in Crowfall: a fort fight

The guards are down. Your group has just captured the circle.
Your scout on the roof reports many enemies incoming. It's 16, the same size as your group.
Your commander calls to pull tight into one corner to hide.
Your scout calls that they're moving around the back of the fort to the east side.
Your commander barks orders: "I want tanks at the east choke. Ranged stay back and get ready to dps the opening. Other melee keep an eye on the flank and wait for my signal"
The enemy pushes in and everything goes as planned. The tanks hold. The enemy can't break through. The ranged dps rain fire and ice on them. The melee finish the ones that try to flank. The healers keep everyone alive. They die. 
 

Who deserves pvp rank here?

  • The ranged dps who dealt the bulk of the damage and hit the most enemies?
  • The tanks that enabled them to do that?
  • The healers that kept the tanks alive and enabled them to hold?
  • The melee covering the flank that didn't get as much dps in?
  • The scout on the roof reporting the enemy's position?
  • The commander directing everything?
  • The enemies, who dealt damage but didn't get any kills?

My point is: There's a lot going on. Whatever you decide to use for pvp ranking, it's probably not fair to one group or other, and it's probably not telling the whole story.

I dont think we should have ranks provide any sort of in-game advantage. As such it shouldnt be a big deal if you dont get a kill if that isnt what you normally do.

Plus it would cut the number of people macroing it.

Most kills, most assists, more ore harvested, first legendary weapon on a cw, first epic gear, etc.

Know how the forums has that 'you won most liked content from the day 7 times' or whatever? That but turned out to 11.

From minors like daily wins to best at x in a cw.

Let's be honest we dont need much reason than that to our brain to feel happy. Add sparkles and make it easy to track and check and you are done.

Forum badges and borders is a must.

Edited by BarriaKarl
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