Status on 6.400 Release Wipe

[nihilsupernum 543]

2 minutes ago, MrErad said:

World is not to small. Just because you have issues due to your class choice + alliance and cant seem to find fights thats on you. Increase the map size reinstate old beta invites & lets get this pop were it belong instead of trying to a niche group that can't seem to find PvP.

No. The world is too large for the population.

 

This, in a campaign with 5 enormous maps each that take minutes to cross in one direction. That's one map per player, basically.

Even at an evening population of 30-50 it's too much space for the # of players. It's only thanks to the fort timers that we have any idea at all where to find each other.

Edited January 12 by nihilsupernum

[BehindYou 124]

yeah sorry, but when the population most of the time is maybe 10 people in a campaign, there are way too many maps

Edited January 12 by BehindYou

[MrErad 225]

10 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

No. The world is too large for the population.

 

This, in a campaign with 5 enormous maps each that take minutes to cross in one direction. That's one map per player, basically.

Even at an evening population of 30-50 it's too much space for the # of players. It's only thanks to the fort timers that we have any idea at all where to find each other.

You're complaining about minutes. 5 minutes or less depending on portal placements.  Get out of here.   You have an issue with travel roll a knight with the speed buff.   Thats funny fort timers are the worst thing but some people don't seem to be having an issue to figure out where fights will be.  Reading the map is difficult.

[nihilsupernum 543]

12 minutes ago, MrErad said:

You're complaining about minutes. 5 minutes or less depending on portal placements.  Get out of here.   You have an issue with travel roll a knight with the speed buff.   Thats funny fort timers are the worst thing but some people don't seem to be having an issue to figure out where fights will be.  Reading the map is difficult.

Wanna test this?

I'll log in and ride around the maps. You try and find me. I'll be mounted and moving and occasionally capture an outpost here and there. If you can find me in under 1 hour, I will concede the point.

I won't tell you which map I'm on or give any other hints.

Edited January 12 by nihilsupernum

[Rexfelis 7]

Multiple weeks of delay compared to losing another huge chunk of your beta test player base.  Hmmm.

[Spawl 499]

20 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

Wanna test this?

I'll log in and ride around the maps. You try and find me. I'll be mounted and moving and occasionally capture an outpost here and there. If you can find me in under 1 hour, I will concede the point.

I won't tell you which map I'm on or give any other hints.

You act as if people should be entitled to find people to fight all the time within a few minutes of logging in. The login population count, the events tab, the spawn locations, those should be enough of a statement about what to expect in game. 

 

Long runs are required in games like these or you end up with cities right next to each other with continuous respawns. You also would grief people off the server if they couldn't control how quickly you could re-engage them in fighting. Face it, running and finding fights outside of the fort/siege windows or notifications from the events should not be expected. 

 

 

Edited January 12 by Spawl

[Anthrage 2,467]

17 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

Wanna test this?

I'll log in and ride around the maps. You try and find me. I'll be mounted and moving and occasionally capture an outpost here and there. If you can find me in under 1 hour, I will concede the point.

I won't tell you which map I'm on or give any other hints.

You cannot design the game or map size around the low end of population numbers. In a single day during this Beta, yes, there will be a time where there are 5 people on and the map seems huge. There are also times where there are 175 people in a single map and it is very crowded. In release, when you multiply that number by 10, these maps that take 5 minutes to run across will be VERY small. I get what you're saying, but it is really a non-point in this context.

[BarriaKarl 2,116]

17 minutes ago, Spawl said:

You act as if people should be entitled to find people to fight all the time within a few minutes of logging in. The login population count, the events tab, the spawn locations, those should be enough of a statement about what to expect in game. 

 

Long runs are required in games like these or you end up with cities right next to each other with continuous respawns. You also would grief people off the server if they couldn't control how quickly you could re-engage them in fighting. Face it, running and finding fights outside of the fort/siege windows or notifications from the events should not be expected. 

 

 

I dare say the reason pop is so low is heavily implicated by how damn hard it is to find fights. There is a reason people have been asking for an arena mode and the reason JTodd is thinking of adding something akin to it. PvPing in this game is super fun, but it aint fun enough to spend 1 hour looking for a fight. I dont think any game is that good to put up with 1 hour of boring for 2 min of fun. No game of any type on any platform.

Those maps have an pop cap of 175 IIRC. Which is to say it is expected to handle 175 people in it. Hell, even if that isnt exactly correct it sure as hell can handle 50 people in it, which is in fact basically the current pop.

[ACE-Tiggs 2,006]

1 hour ago, Barab said:

@ACE-Tiggs Can we get an extension on the buddy beta invites ? They expire on jan 29th and I would like to save mine for 6.4 please.....

@BarabYou'll be in for 6.400 and get to try things out, you won't be deactivated on the 29th.     

[yianni 1,695]

38 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

@BarabYou'll be in for 6.400 and get to try things out, you won't be deactivated on the 29th.     

Yeah he has multiple accounts already...

[Barab 707]

42 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

@BarabYou'll be in for 6.400 and get to try things out, you won't be deactivated on the 29th.     

@ACE-Tiggs I have a kick starter OG account....but the five buddy codes sitting in my code rewards say they expire to be sent on 1/29/2020....I want to save them for 6.4 to be able to send out. 

[Spawl 499]

21 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I dare say the reason pop is so low is heavily implicated by how damn hard it is to find fights. There is a reason people have been asking for an arena mode and the reason JTodd is thinking of adding something akin to it. PvPing in this game is super fun, but it aint fun enough to spend 1 hour looking for a fight. I dont think any game is that good to put up with 1 hour of boring for 2 min of fun. No game of any type on any platform.

Those maps have an pop cap of 175 IIRC. Which is to say it is expected to handle 175 people in it. Hell, even if that isnt exactly correct it sure as hell can handle 50 people in it, which is in fact basically the current pop.

People looking for PvP, want to be able to fight other, like-minded folks quickly. People looking to harvest high end materials often look to do that with less risk because that all depends on your objective. Players grinding levels will do it where it is most efficient, which is exactly what all these different activities want. The challenge is, you can't have it all. 

13 in Gods Reach. 34 in Infected. 12 in Campaign right now, after announcement of the wipe. People are in trying new things, new builds or are new players learning the game which is also the fun part of the game. Many players do expect the Dregs campaign to be a bastion of PvP similar to arenas, but it is supposed to be a virtual world not just a simple arena. You don't want that same type of quick respawn combat for sieges though because it just becomes about the zerg more than anything else and everyone quickly respawns until one side gets bored. If you are looking for a PvP arena game, I'm sure you can find them all over the place but Crowfall will never be that because it wants to be about territory control and sieging. You need the space. Shadowbane had over 100 places to siege. Darkfall had 96 and in alpha/beta there weren't a ton of people, but once the progression mattered, they were out there finding how to efficiently get their skills up on the blood wall. Crowfall is lacking the space and many of the testers want their progress to matter. They will be back once it does and this game will need to have tested the space to make sure it works. 

 

 

 

[GraeAKL 3]

Thanks for the update ACE!  I support this endeavor in the name of science! And I believe this is the right choice to obtain the data required in order to go forward into the future. 

[weaponsx 196]

Well thx for telling us the truth that its all going away.. again.

[Darkstar412 155]

Hey its beta to be expected thanks for the update. Ill keep fighting and testing because that's what its about . 

[veeshan 1,725]

im more curious about an eta of when we might see 6.4 for ourselves on test 😛

Edited January 12 by veeshan

[veeshan 1,725]

2 hours ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

@BarabYou'll be in for 6.400 and get to try things out, you won't be deactivated on the 29th.     

tbh you should hand some more of those out when 6.4 hit to help build some population. if you think 6.4 is in a good spot for that ofcourse.

[miraluna 2,806]

Thanks for the honest update!  I just got a blue vessel 😭 but I'm excited to test all the big changes coming in 6.4 so keep things moving toward launch 😁

[APE 3,290]

10 hours ago, Anthrage said:

You cannot design the game or map size around the low end of population numbers. In a single day during this Beta, yes, there will be a time where there are 5 people on and the map seems huge. There are also times where there are 175 people in a single map and it is very crowded. In release, when you multiply that number by 10, these maps that take 5 minutes to run across will be VERY small. I get what you're saying, but it is really a non-point in this context.

Wasn't the point of spending so much time on procedural worlds with dials and knobs to be able to produce different maps? Hopefully it wasn't to produce maps all the same size that look 2% different. Would be a massive waste of resources.

If the population is X currently the map should fit that number. When the population is Y, adjust accordingly.

It isn't like today it is 5 and tomorrow it is 1000 and the next day it is 250. It seems to be fairly consistent for the last few years minus the beta starting.

Pretending anything about the current game reflects what launch will look like is scary.

[APE 3,290]

9 hours ago, Spawl said:

You don't want that same type of quick respawn combat for sieges though because it just becomes about the zerg more than anything else and everyone quickly respawns until one side gets bored.

There are multiple ways to handle respawn timers, locations, costs, etc.

9 hours ago, Spawl said:

If you are looking for a PvP arena game, I'm sure you can find them all over the place but Crowfall will never be that because it wants to be about territory control and sieging.

Despite what it wants to be, it is being marketing with PVP front and center. Territory control doesn't exist unless owning a POI is considered territory which this game doesn't do as well as "themepark" games. Siege is no different. More exciting siege in games 15 years old.

I'm not looking for a PVP arena game as there are much better games for that, but I'm also not looking for a PVE grinder (better games for that too) that has limited meaningful PVP.

Not sure why everything has to be extreme. Games don't have to be either instant respawn MOBAs or travel the empty maps looking for an enemy running simulator.

It's almost like they could have different sized maps for different content.