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bairloch

On the subject of open PVP

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Unsurprisingly, considering Crowfall's pedigree, I've already seen a lot of talk about PvP. I'm a guy that doesn't want to be the baddest mutha on the server. I'm the kind of guy that wants to do his part for his guild, contribute however, and know that it's appreciated. That's all.

So when a guy like me sees a lot of calls for open-world, non-consensual PvP, I have a few concerns. If I'm not pushing to be the biggest and the strongest, will there be a place for me in an open-world, non-consensual PvP game? I'd like to think I could still contribute - crafting, exploring, scouting, knowledge - but if every time I leave the guild hall I get ganked, can I contribute?

So my suggestion is, make the combat as realistic as possible. By that, I mean no health bars, no healing potions or magic, no trading blows for five minutes. I'm talking a flurry of action, a lot of luck and a lot of skill, and a body on the ground bleeding moments later.

A system where the guy who doesn't have all the best gear still has a realistic chance of defending himself if he's done his homework. A system where the aggressor really has to want the other guy dead, because he's truly risking his own life by starting something.

That would be something truly different.

 


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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This actually bring up a fair point in my mind. Normally in MMO games, if two players are at the top of their game, then it can go on for a long time. With a more realistic health system like what you're saying, players have to think about what they're doing when they attack someone. Sneak attacks would add an excellent element, and it would make the players with the biggest armor rethink walling down the street to impress everyone and show them how he can beat them all so easily.


Leading the hired hands to their personal gold-lust.

 

With a fedora on.

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In a system with really quck TTK... You get instakills. That's going to ruin things in my opinion. Make wars and open PvP make sense. There is no reason to fight anyone unless there is a grudge against them. Murderers do make things interesting, but if they exist they should be just as limited as they are in real life.

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One of the few open PvP systems I actually liked was EVE Online.  If they did it like that, I don't think I would have much problem with it.

First is having safe areas that the further away from them you get, the less protection you have.

While there isn't anything that necessarily prevents somebody from attacking you, A there should be swift retribution from any nearby guards, and B the price for doing so should be steep.

 

Kind of like in EVE when you die you lose all you stuff.  But there is a risk/reward system, where small ships are super cheap, and it only goes up from there.

So if a similar idea was implemented, light armor and small arms are cheap and easy to use, where are heavy armor and more powerful weapons cost an arm and a leg.  Like it actually was during the medieval period.

 

However using heavier, stronger weapons and armor also makes you slower, so while someone with small arms might not be able to do any real damage to you, the reverse is also true, you may just be too slow to get a hit in.  Not if their keeping their wits about them.

 

On top of this is combat was vaguely like Dark Souls, which actually takes skill, not tab targeting, no massive power difference via arbitrary mechanics, ie levels.

Then the ability for somebody to just come along a kill you randomly diminish.

But in general the combat should be slower, more methodical, and that should help keep ganking from becoming unmanageable, since you have time to take in your surroundings and give you a chance if somebody does attack you.

Rather then 'backstab, boom your dead'.

 

 

Of course then you also have to deal with issues like ranged combat, and balancing that out too.

So it's not an easy problem, but it's manageable.

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There was a FPS I played long ago that went ultra real like this, with no health bar, no bullet count, no map in the corner, no cross hairs.... just you and your iron sights. The game was a really cool idea, and was great to play-- for a week. After that it lost its cool factor that I can't tell when I need to make that last push, that I couldnt tell if I had another shot, that I had no idea where I was going.

I think you will find this much more bothering long term for your play style than your typical open world pvp. Build a character that can run fast for long distances if you hate to be ganked. Build a character with little offensive skills, high defensive skills, and the ability to get away.

In SB ( idk which you came from) we had thieves. Oddly thieves could be great gank characters, but sometimes people built them to just steal and run... I had one built this way, I had him for years. I stole millions and millions in gold... I dont think I ever killed anything on him, but I was likely only killed 10 or less times. Character customization is the more important way to make a game fun for you imo.


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I find myself reading over and over again how my ideas will not be fun for the readers of my posts. I'm sure they've all read the Dev post about how this game may not be for them, but they all assume the devs were talking about someone else.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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I find myself reading over and over again how my ideas will not be fun for the readers of my posts. I'm sure they've all read the Dev post about how this game may not be for them, but they all assume the devs were talking about someone else.

maybe if you are reading it over and over, the devs were talking about you?


k653rIm.png

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I do not deny the possibility. But the evidence would suggest that I keep coming up with ideas that frighten or disagree with many players. The devs have already stated they will be doing the same.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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Yes, you get instakills, but it might be the tough guy getting instakilled by the farmer, if the farmer gets lucky. That's the system I want.

I think this is very very unlikely to happen. As the devs said ".. my SKILL will determine if I win or lose." the tough guy is tough for a reason therefore he's probably more skilled than many people and if he is in fact more skilled he shouldn't be instakilled by a farmer. No lucky instakills for you.

 

Of course the farmer can be skilled too but again he is a farmer for a reason and probably he's not that good at PvP

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But which skill is determining whether you win or lose? Merely your ability to click faster or more accurately than another? Or could we be looking at other skills like deductive reasoning or pattern recognition? A farmer could still excel at those despite being non-combat.

I'm looking for something that doesn't follow the rules we are used to. I don't know how to code it, but that's not my job. I'm throwing out wishes and ideas because, well, this is the suggestion box.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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Like said previously, a farmer is a farmer for a reason. Because he doesn't have the physicality to be a brawler, or the magic adeptness of a wizard, or the insight and planning to be a strategist. He has the skills to be a farmer. Recognizing soil fertility, ability to read weather patterns, knowledge of the plants. A pure farmer should never be able to kill a toughened, seasoned soldier. 

 

There would leave no reason to focus on combat. You could be purely a merchant and due part to RNG kill the toughest opponents. 

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If there's non-consensual PvP, this game is not for me plain and simple.  I hate PvP.  I see a lot of jumping to conclusions on this since -- despite the implications of the title -- they haven't actually said it will be that.  When I worried about it on Coleman's FB, he replied "you shouldn't let yourself get so discouraged, so easily. all things will be revealed in time".  So I am here waiting to see what it turns out to be with an open mind and have to assume there's more options than that coming.  I hope anyway.


Not quite carebear, but sort of cousin to,


meh, grumpy old lady...


Never underestimate grumpy old ladies.

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There *has* to be some form of balance in the game or it's going to scare many people off.  I don't think that's what the devs want.  However, I also don't think that this game is going to cater to a specific group of people like Shadowbane and Darkfall did, even though Darkfall did have most of the elements you were speaking of.

 

If the game could have a skill cap that isn't too terribly high, it will help with that you're asking by allowing you to fully understand your character and be able use it to it's ultimate capacity without getting completely dumped on.


Stardust Green

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If there's non-consensual PvP, this game is not for me plain and simple.  I hate PvP.  I see a lot of jumping to conclusions on this since -- despite the implications of the title -- they haven't actually said it will be that.  When I worried about it on Coleman's FB, he replied "you shouldn't let yourself get so discouraged, so easily. all things will be revealed in time".  So I am here waiting to see what it turns out to be with an open mind and have to assume there's more options than that coming.  I hope anyway.

Did you go to the front page of the website? The first paragraph clearly says they no longer want to play against mobs to fill up their sacks or xp, that they want to play against other people...

 

Very, very clearly saying that this game is going to be about pvp, it will have wins, it will have failures, you will like lose basically everything at some point.


k653rIm.png

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Did you go to the front page of the website? The first paragraph clearly says they no longer want to play against mobs to fill up their sacks or xp, that they want to play against other people...

 

Very, very clearly saying that this game is going to be about pvp, it will have wins, it will have failures, you will like lose basically everything at some point.

 

Yeah, I did. It also doesn't say exactly what it's going to be.  Everyone is just assuming all that means PvP.  It may but it may mean something else entirely.  I'm hoping for the latter.  Something ORIGINAL.  PvP is not original and if it is PvP their claims of something new and different are greatly exaggerated.  I haven't played any of Walton's games so I don't know about him but I give Coleman credit for much more originality than that.  Or I wouldn't even be even bothering.


Not quite carebear, but sort of cousin to,


meh, grumpy old lady...


Never underestimate grumpy old ladies.

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Yeah, I did. It also doesn't say exactly what it's going to be.  Everyone is just assuming all that means PvP.  It may but it may mean something else entirely.  I'm hoping for the latter.  Something ORIGINAL.  PvP is not original and if it is PvP their claims of something new and different are greatly exaggerated.  I haven't played any of Walton's games so I don't know about him but I give Coleman credit for much more originality than that.  Or I wouldn't even be even bothering.

In what way would you come up with a PvE game that has not been done before, that also includes you playing against other players?

 

Something deeper than a virtual amusement park. More impactful than a virtual sandbox. More immersive. More real. A game where decisions matter.

 

what's the point of playing?

I don’t want to kill more rats, fill another experience point bar or collect another meaningless badge.

I want to play a GAME, against PLAYERS where my actions, my decisions and my SKILL will determine if I win or lose.

Allies. Enemies. Alliances. Betrayal. Risk. Conquest. To compete with THOUSANDS of other players for a chance to claim the THRONE.

Even if I lose, the experience won’t feel hollow. I don’t want another worthless trophy.

I WANT TO PLAY TO CRUSH.

 

http://www.play2crush.com/

 

 

There is not much I would be on at this point, but what I would be willing to bet on:

If you play this game, you will be playing against players. You will be able to lose to said players. You will have player enemies, there will be risk, there will be fights to lead to conquest. And you wont be killing mobs for trophies.


k653rIm.png

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Yeah, I did. It also doesn't say exactly what it's going to be.  Everyone is just assuming all that means PvP.  It may but it may mean something else entirely.  I'm hoping for the latter.  Something ORIGINAL.  PvP is not original and if it is PvP their claims of something new and different are greatly exaggerated.  I haven't played any of Walton's games so I don't know about him but I give Coleman credit for much more originality than that.  Or I wouldn't even be even bothering.

 

So what your saying is, you don't want to play a game where people battle each other at all.  Wheres the play to crush spirit.  I want to crush other players in game, I don't want to hold hands and skip down NPC lane to waste time gathering things that are only used to battle NPC's.  Well being as that isn't original either I am guessing you don't want to have anything to do with either, whether they are mixed or not, they aren't original... 


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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After reading that manifesto, I can't comprehend how this game will not be pvp-centric.

 

That said, ESO is pvp-centric, but extremely watered down and restricted for the pve crowd.

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