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Please bring back loot drop.


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People can just infinitely zombie rush you in this game. There is zero incentive to be tactical in any way, it just comes down to who has more numbers. 

Then on the other hand you have other players who will just infinitely troll-cap outposts with little to no loss. 

Taking hits on gear is okay, but there needs to be more. This isn't Day-Z it's an MMO. There needs to be some kind of gap between killing someone and respawning. 

War Tribe / Outpost gear now has no value at all. Crafting will always be better, especially if gatherers can now retain what they were gathering on death? Now there is no incentive to roam open world during the day, people will only mass for CTA at night and I see this game being absolutely dead when that happens. 

Please think about a ransom system, insurance system, death penalty system, or anything other than what is currently in place because right now it just comes down to who can mash keys longer even with this durability loss system. I also think that the in game economy will suffer greatly from no loot drop. Why would you even trade if you can just join a huge guild, rarely die or lose anything and lock a complete zone out once the game has a population and never take durability loss?

Oh yeah, you guys, you can completely deny castles/sieges by just loading 175 people into a zone and not fighting. I won't say names, but I know the types of alliances that will be doing this at launch. Combine that with no loot drop mechanics, little punishment on death, and we will see massive barriers to entry for players who don't join massive, hand-holding, zerg guilds that will zone lock castles and keeps in the future. 

Removing all loot drop is a mistake. You can't even weaken larger alliances by ganking members and taking gear during the day in small scale fights. End game is now all about the biggest zerg you can form with this change. 

Edited by Parallel
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People can just infinitely zombie rush you in this game. There is zero incentive to be tactical in any way, it just comes down to who has more numbers.  Then on the other hand you have other play

I didn't like this specific implementation of gear drop (not knowing if you were going to lose 1 or 10 pieces makes supply management difficult) or starting with such a high drop rate compared to the

Just for clarification. We all hate the 100% protection. I think we are arguing 50% at best with lego discs. 100% is crazy. And Im a gatherer...

We had another 10-15 players coming into the game from Albion that are now having second thoughts. I am now having second thoughts.

Developers, please don't be blinded by the opinions of a few nerds who have been fighting the same old people for the last few years. A full loot drop game has a mass appeal and you will pull players from Albion Online, those disappointed in New World because they also went the no-drop route, old Ultima Online players and more. Your audience is NOT World of Warcraft and during test/beta you will see less of your true audience playing due to the wipes. Please, please add some kind of loot drop system back. Splitting campaigns to make some full drop and others not will just ruin PvP like Trammel/Felucca did in UO. 

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Just now, Wilbur said:

I'm sure it will be re-added once the crafting system isn't as stupidly complicated or a time-sink.

Yes but if we aren't on the forums voicing our opinion about the change, because the developers listen in this game, then they won't hear us. Everyone that cares about this change has to let them know on the forums ASAP just like those who opposed the loot system did. 

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2 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

I ran away from a fight today prior to this latest patch. I didn't need anything the other guy might have been wearing and I didn't want to risk giving some of my items. That 20% drop of equipped gear was causing folks to avoid fights! Prior to 6.4 I never avoided a fight.

runnin away from a fight is not a problem, its part of the game, chosing who to fight, when, this and that, its called tatics and gameplay
u dont have to bash each others heads every time u see a red. Runnin good gear makes o fear death, thats ok, killing ppl that is runnin and dont wanna fight is also a part of the gameplay. 

ure just blinded by your beta test game experience and cant face good changes like gear loot drops. Just addapt to it. Unconsensual pvp is the word ure missing and not understanding, wich makes the game fun and shift the meta twords more mobility/catch/escape or chase potentcial and not just pit fighters or radicals beign imobile and imortals

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3 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Don't think anyone really opposed a gear drop system, what they opposed was a gear drop system based purely on unmitigatable RNG when the time investment for crafted gear is so huge.

I'm not opposed to a loot drop system. I AM oppoaed to a system where on the average I lost 2 items per death. I died 3 times in 6.4 and lost 6 items. That was too steep for me. It took a long time to make that gear and a long time to replace it.

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3 minutes ago, 1Vulp said:

runnin away from a fight is not a problem, its part of the game, chosing who to fight, when, this and that, its called tatics and gameplay
u dont have to bash each others heads every time u see a red. Runnin good gear makes o fear death, thats ok, killing ppl that is runnin and dont wanna fight is also a part of the gameplay. 

ure just blinded by your beta test game experience and cant face good changes like gear loot drops. Just addapt to it. Unconsensual pvp is the word ure missing and not understanding, wich makes the game fun and shift the meta twords more mobility/catch/escape or chase potentcial and not just pit fighters or radicals beign imobile and imortals

I played UO back in the day from beta in the summer of 97 til 2004. But there it was quick and easy to replace your lost gear.

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1 minute ago, MacDeath said:

I'm not opposed to a loot drop system. I AM oppoaed to a system where on the average I lost 2 items per death. I died 3 times in 6.4 and lost 6 items. That was too steep for me. It took a long time to make that gear and a long time to replace it.

I guess my counter to that is, why is everyone running around in crafted gear that takes forever to make? Why isn't that end game and used in formal battle situations like we do in Albion? I don't always run around in my gucci gear. Instead, people have an incentive to farm War Tribes and Outposts and wear that gear. That means there is a lot more open world traffic because players are out doing things more. Then players can set up vending locations in free towns selling this gear, creating an economy.

My guild saw the changes, we set up a production line to crank out enough gear sets to not care if we die. I also ran around killing War Tribes / looting outposts to see how much gear I could accumulate to continue roaming open world without care if I died. I saw the beginnings of one of the most beautiful games I had played since UO with loot drops. 

Imagine logging on in the middle of the day and finding groups of people fighting over Heralds, fighting over War Tribe Chiefs? Isn't that the dream instead of gathering? 

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It could have worked if we were talking 1 drop in maybe five deaths. 2 Items per death? nah, that is wack.

I have no idea why yall would want to loot trash gear. Because that is exactly what you would get if it stayed that punitive.

I will say once again. I'd rather fight for places to farm, for territory control. Not trash gear.

I would have liked if they tried the 'gold purse' idea we saw thrown around. Either drop, say, 2k gold or 20% chance to drop ONE equipped item.

Edited by BarriaKarl
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2 minutes ago, Parallel said:

Imagine logging on in the middle of the day and finding groups of people fighting over Heralds, fighting over War Tribe Chiefs? Isn't that the dream instead of gathering?

Not for me.  Gathering is an integral part of the game loop presented to us.  I greatly dislike introducing systems that remove parts of the game loop.

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2 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

But there it was quick and easy to replace your lost gear.

Then we all agree that is not a wise decision to eliminate a just implemented feature that actually solve some problems of risk/rewards of the game right after u implement it. Its a matter of making gear more easly produced, manageable and stocked? 

1#We need ways of separating bank tabs, to set our extra gear ready for combat and not in the middle of everything else we might have in the banks


2#We need guild/alliance bank tabs, so we can organize better the resources to mass produce gear, or even extra gear that we loot from others that we can put up there so someone that needs it can grab and use

3#We need less RNG in death drops, maybe something that equals vallue in pieces of gear so u have a max floor of death drop penallty, not just random 20% per piece but 20% as a whole, so u cant drop the same pieces over and over or drop your whole gear set over and over like it happened with me sometimes (not that i wasnt prepared for that)

with this someday we might be able to have a good economy, pvp up time in the fields except for campaigns and something like that
we need to remember that for a MMO is hard to test the first two "MMs" when your playerbase consist of 15 dudes in the test server. We need to think in the future when theres enouth players to actually test economy, time/gold sinks and loot drop features

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Except you can kill them and add to their rez timer and while they're coming in random waves go blow up their rez shrine. Zombie rushing siege has a big punishment if the guild sieging knows how to defend their trebs.

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2 minutes ago, Stasy said:

Not for me.  Gathering is an integral part of the game loop presented to us.  I greatly dislike introducing systems that remove parts of the game loop.

Gathering will have no part in the game if there is no drop system when the game goes persistent. It will be needed at launch, over time there will be a mass accumulation of materials that will diminish the value of everything you gather. Just like any game, if the open world becomes too safe, you're welcoming heavy amounts of botters. 

They already welcomed gathering bots by making a new system that allows you to keep materials when you die. So your life as a gatherer is already over if any gold farmers get a whiff of these changes. You will never see any value from your gathering because it will be siphoned away by a 24/7 gathering bot, when it dies it will just respawn and run to another location to gather more. 

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56 minutes ago, Parallel said:

People can just infinitely zombie rush you in this game. There is zero incentive to be tactical in any way, it just comes down to who has more numbers. 

Then on the other hand you have other players who will just infinitely troll-cap outposts with little to no loss. 

Taking hits on gear is okay, but there needs to be more. This isn't Day-Z it's an MMO. There needs to be some kind of gap between killing someone and respawning. 

War Tribe / Outpost gear now has no value at all. Crafting will always be better, especially if gatherers can now retain what they were gathering on death? Now there is no incentive to roam open world during the day, people will only mass for CTA at night and I see this game being absolutely dead when that happens. 

Please think about a ransom system, insurance system, death penalty system, or anything other than what is currently in place because right now it just comes down to who can mash keys longer even with this durability loss system. I also think that the in game economy will suffer greatly from no loot drop. Why would you even trade if you can just join a huge guild, rarely die or lose anything and lock a complete zone out once the game has a population and never take durability loss?

Oh yeah, you guys, you can completely deny castles/sieges by just loading 175 people into a zone and not fighting. I won't say names, but I know the types of alliances that will be doing this at launch. Combine that with no loot drop mechanics, little punishment on death, and we will see massive barriers to entry for players who don't join massive, hand-holding, zerg guilds that will zone lock castles and keeps in the future. 

Removing all loot drop is a mistake. You can't even weaken larger alliances by ganking members and taking gear during the day in small scale fights. End game is now all about the biggest zerg you can form with this change. 

This man can think ahead to what's coming.

100% this game will be about controlling the zone population caps. They've given no insight as to any method of splitting this cap between defender/attacker or any number of possible solutions to prevent abuse. People think far too short-term when discussing Crowfall's game systems. Every system will lead to a behavior. Every behavior is going to be based on a simple formula; what maximizes my ability to win with the least amount of effort.

  • Throwing hordes of naked zombies at players until enemies gear breaks/runs out; easy.
  • Stacking friendlies to hit zone cap; easy (also note guild population caps won't solve this because you can still pack zones with friendlies)
  • Not playing because the only thing that matters is sieges, and I can be naked as long as we hit the population cap? easy.
  • I need crafters to 100% craft all the time? because Blair thinks thats what they want to do in this game all the time? lol. Crafters hate PvP games. This games going to end up forcing PvP players to craft, because they made a convoluted crafting system they can't un-engineer in time for launch. Literally half the game is now handicapped because of how complicated crafting is. You can't even implement full equipped item loot, because of this crafting system nonsense.

Its comical how easy it will be to externally meta this game into the ground. The developers have no solutions, they've never even acknowledged this is a problem. Increasing the zone caps to a ridiculous level is just about the only option they have left and that introduces the single fact of Crowfall; the games mmo engine (think server/client stuff) and its graphics engine cannot handle large player counts. Once you field 300-400 people on one side, this game simply won't be able to render in a playable rate to matter anymore.

But lets all worry about balance of disciplines and what other nonsense people think is important for this games launch day success.

Edited by Scree
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5 minutes ago, Parallel said:

Instead, people have an incentive to farm War Tribes and Outposts and wear that gear. That means there is a lot more open world traffic because players are out doing things more. Then players can set up vending locations in free towns selling this gear, creating an economy.

Wartribe drops feels like stop gap to shore up the lack of crafting items in this game.  If Wartribe gear continues to be better than similar crafted gear, it hurts the crafters and gatherers in the game.

I don't see how we can have an effective economy that relies on crafters only selling legendary end game gear.  Crafters need to be able to sell all tiers of equipment, because it takes a lot grinding to get to that end game gear.  It feels really bad as a crafter to make hundreds of pieces of gear that nobody wants to pay for, since everybody can go out and farm for few hours to get their own mid tier gear.  My opinion is, if the crafting game loop is going to be successful, all players must feel incentivized to pay for that crafted gear.
 

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I didn't like this specific implementation of gear drop (not knowing if you were going to lose 1 or 10 pieces makes supply management difficult) or starting with such a high drop rate compared to the time investment of the current harvesting/crafting systems.

I do like the concept of gear looting and I think it's a great risk vs reward dynamic for a strategic pvp game. Hopefully we'll see it come back later for some rulesets, and with a better implementation.

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8 minutes ago, Scree said:

This man can think ahead to what's coming.

100% this game will be about controlling the zone population caps.

I'm surprised that wasn't already obvious to you. Anyone who has seen zones cap in game knows that will be a problem without changes to address it.

Edited by Jah

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