Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Please bring back loot drop.


Recommended Posts

28 minutes ago, Parallel said:

I guess my counter to that is, why is everyone running around in crafted gear that takes forever to make? Why isn't that end game and used in formal battle situations like we do in Albion? I don't always run around in my gucci gear. Instead, people have an incentive to farm War Tribes and Outposts and wear that gear. That means there is a lot more open world traffic because players are out doing things more. Then players can set up vending locations in free towns selling this gear, creating an economy.

My guild saw the changes, we set up a production line to crank out enough gear sets to not care if we die. I also ran around killing War Tribes / looting outposts to see how much gear I could accumulate to continue roaming open world without care if I died. I saw the beginnings of one of the most beautiful games I had played since UO with loot drops. 

Imagine logging on in the middle of the day and finding groups of people fighting over Heralds, fighting over War Tribe Chiefs? Isn't that the dream instead of gathering? 

Because after a certain point, it is the only way to be viable in the real game GvG. That is also one of the primary goals of the game, to give crafters meaning.  If crafted stuff is just dropping from people like leaves in the fall, it's not really going be worth it to bother crafting, and 1/3rd of the game loop just doesn't fire. 

You can't get jewelry from drops, that only comes from at least two people hitting mother loads.

It takes a VERY long time to craft any piece of gear, simply because the whole factory thing that was a major lynchpin to the whole systems original design isn't done, and won't be done, until after launch. 

I've seen reports of 5/9 pieces of gear dropped, and out of nine deaths with 81 possible gear drops, 28 did.
That is an average of 35% dropped gear. 

Rest assured, they have not pulled the functionality out of the code, and further along I am sure you will find worlds with a significant drop rate for those that think they are all bad ass and don't mind losing all the work that goes into crafting

For now, we have seen the system is not working as intended, and needs polish, before subjecting players to it outside of the test environment. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 151
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

People can just infinitely zombie rush you in this game. There is zero incentive to be tactical in any way, it just comes down to who has more numbers.  Then on the other hand you have other play

I didn't like this specific implementation of gear drop (not knowing if you were going to lose 1 or 10 pieces makes supply management difficult) or starting with such a high drop rate compared to the

Just for clarification. We all hate the 100% protection. I think we are arguing 50% at best with lego discs. 100% is crazy. And Im a gatherer...

@Parallel To be clear, I am not against gear drop in Crowfall.  I am against gear drop in the current game loop.  If ACE can fix the gathering/crafting/losing gear loop, then bring the gear drop mechanic back in the game.

One of the unique things about CF is the dregs campaigns don't have static rules.  We can have gear drop come back in the future.  

But with the current loop, gear drop only adds to the losing gear part of the loop which is why it needed to be removed for this test campaign.  I would love to see it come back once they do the gathering/crafting changes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Parallel said:

I guess my counter to that is, why is everyone running around in crafted gear that takes forever to make? Why isn't that end game and used in formal battle situations like we do in Albion? I don't always run around in my gucci gear. Instead, people have an incentive to farm War Tribes and Outposts and wear that gear. That means there is a lot more open world traffic because players are out doing things more. Then players can set up vending locations in free towns selling this gear, creating an economy.

My guild saw the changes, we set up a production line to crank out enough gear sets to not care if we die. I also ran around killing War Tribes / looting outposts to see how much gear I could accumulate to continue roaming open world without care if I died. I saw the beginnings of one of the most beautiful games I had played since UO with loot drops. 

Imagine logging on in the middle of the day and finding groups of people fighting over Heralds, fighting over War Tribe Chiefs? Isn't that the dream instead of gathering? 

There should be no endgame in Crowfall.  The game is based on territorial sieges, and as such should never have an endgame.  I also believe in caring for the crafters, and with WT gear crafters are left on the back burner.  Crafted gear at any level should be better than anything dropped from the average mob; named bosses being the exception.  Not everyone wants equipped gear loss, and for one am gald they reverted.  Based on the quick change back, it would also seem like a lot of the feedback was heard by ACE. 

For me personally I'm here for one reason only, and that's the sieging.  All of the other pvp they try to make is no fun to me; I want to see true territory control, more of chess than fortnite.  While fighting over some of the WT mobs is a means to an end, that's what it  is, a means to an end.  The end game for me is all about the sieges; but ACE hasn't gotten that right either so........

I feel it as a good reversion of something that broke the PvP.

lUvvzPy.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Scree said:

Its comical how easy it will be to externally meta this game into the ground. The developers have no solutions, they've never even acknowledged this is a problem. Increasing the zone caps to a ridiculous level is just about the only option they have left and that introduces the single fact of Crowfall; the games mmo engine (think server/client stuff) and its graphics engine cannot handle large player counts.

This is by far the largest concern of using unity as the engine.  It was always why unity was great for 50v50 or even 60v60 type games, but never something on the scale of Shadowbane (as long ago as it was) or EvE (at least EvE helped solve their issue be reinforcing systems when they knew 500v500 fights were coming).

lUvvzPy.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Stasy said:

@Parallel To be clear, I am not against gear drop in Crowfall.  I am against gear drop in the current game loop.  If ACE can fix the gathering/crafting/losing gear loop, then bring the gear drop mechanic back in the game.

One of the unique things about CF is the dregs campaigns don't have static rules.  We can have gear drop come back in the future.  

But with the current loop, gear drop only adds to the losing gear part of the loop which is why it needed to be removed for this test campaign.  I would love to see it come back once they do the gathering/crafting changes.

I agree with most everything here.  I don't think many people dislike the gear dropping on death, but it did seem overtuned especially with how crafting is currently.

 

The point @Parallel made about zerging from respawns is also an issues that's gone unaddressed for a while.  I think this could largely be fixed by removing the debuff on the Resurrection skill and adding it as a debuff from a Resurrection statue.  You shouldn't be hindered for getting a battle rez off, you should be hindered if you die and need to fly back to a statue.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RetroSweater said:

I agree with most everything here.  I don't think many people dislike the gear dropping on death, but it did seem overtuned especially with how crafting is currently.

 

The point @Parallel made about zerging from respawns is also an issues that's gone unaddressed for a while.  I think this could largely be fixed by removing the debuff on the Resurrection skill and adding it as a debuff from a Resurrection statue.  You shouldn't be hindered for getting a battle rez off, you should be hindered if you die and need to fly back to a statue.

There are two sides to the res argument.  

Side one.  Res, and res statue location and control are tactical area control, because having a viable respawn location is part of the over all GvG keep/siege strategy.  Defenders get this by default, aggressors need to secure a beachhead in the the zone to have the same flexibility.  Reasonably quick respawn is therefore required for this strategy to exist. 

Side two.  Fights should be one and done. You get to fight, if you die, your out.  

I think side two is totally wrong, because all one and done would do is ensure that the largest group only needs to establish a 1-1 kill trade to eventually overwhelm a smaller force. 

The game is already numbers sensitive enough, without allowing smaller forces to try to maintain areas by using res statue control to increase enemy time to recover from deaths.

Dropped equipped items pushes things further into the advantage going to the bigger guild, and quite frankly, that advantage is already big enough. 
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

There are two sides to the res argument.  

Side one.  Res, and res statue location and control are tactical area control, because having a viable respawn location is part of the over all GvG keep/siege strategy.  Defenders get this by default, aggressors need to secure a beachhead in the the zone to have the same flexibility.  Reasonably quick respawn is therefore required for this strategy to exist. 

Side two.  Fights should be one and done. You get to fight, if you die, your out.  

I think side two is totally wrong, because all one and done would do is ensure that the largest group only needs to establish a 1-1 kill trade to eventually overwhelm a smaller force. 

The game is already numbers sensitive enough, without allowing smaller forces to try to maintain areas by using res statue control to increase enemy time to recover from deaths.

Dropped equipped items pushes things further into the advantage going to the bigger guild, and quite frankly, that advantage is already big enough. 
 

I don't think many people would agree with side two.  That seems like a sure way to decrease fight potential and content, which most people are striving for in Crowfall.

 

I think there's a healthy balance that can be had with a resurrection debuff, similar to the one from the resurrection skill.  Add that debuff to the defending keeps resurrection statue and all statues in the zone during a siege window.  You can rez at a statue in zone, return to the fight faster but you have a debuff.  Alternatively you could fly out of zone rez and return with no debuff but this takes quite a bit longer and your group may be dead before your return.

 

We should halt judgement on the gear dropping since I think a large portion of the systems needed to make it viable are just not currently implemented. Critiquing something without the systems in place is going to lead us down an unnecessary rabbit hole because the game just isn't optimized for that yet.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also believe that there will most likely still be Loot drop scenarios. The testing feedback im sure was received and they can maybe try another iteration later.  Imagine spring no loot drop, summer 15% loot drop, fall 30% loot drop, winter 35% loot drop or something like that. There are a lot of ways of implementing this mechanic creatively.  For testing sake though it is important we don't spend too much time testing loot drop when other tests rely on us not being afraid to lose our loot. Best way to look at this is first, WWGD what would gordon do and then, in ACE we trust. I mean you trust it enough to purchase this far, so hold your judgements until the chapters are more complete. Maybe then again reassess after you bind those chapters, reroll it, polish it. Add a PHilo stone, A hunger crystal, and two Legendary Bowman Eyes.

Edited by Nyurt
human
Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it could of worked out....

They added banks to every respawn, so you could regear if needed.

They made outpost gear stronger... but i think they increased the spawn rate of chests.

I figured before/after sieges i would roam around with a group and we would stash/bank some backup gear for when the fights/wipes started happening.

We're fortunate enough to have a dedicated crafter... so we figured we would put in orders before sieges and have backup gear when they time came....

 

I dueled 2 experienced players with blue vessels and wartribe gear vs me and another new player with common vessel and full lego gear....

and we actually went like 3 for 3 outta 6 games... it was intense....kinda demoralizing, but... I feel like once u get the green/blue vessel... and wartribe/green/blue crafted gear... you're pretty close to onpar with full lego's....
I'm new so i never got to run around with full lego's on live, but did get to exp. a couple sieges before 6.4 and i was in blue/green crafted gear/wartribe gear and i think i did fine...

It seemed like the devs tried to answer both parties this patch with loot protection for the gatherer/crafter and loot drop for the pvp'ers
Maybe the ppl for loot drop didnt voice their opinions with the same intensity as the loot protection people so we get a response that the majority isnt really the majority.
...1million ppl view a youtube video and only 100,000 post on it... but all the posts seem extreme negative or positive... making the general opinion look like something the majority isnt...

EITHERWAY! I have faith the dev's know game systems and how to make a game better than me. So i hope they're able to discern the smart from the ....notsmart... responses. 
I would like to see pvp loot drops , tho the RnG godsmack does feel like it could be a little deperssing, and slowdown pvp... but i was ready to adapt.

❤️ you all and hopefully we get a godamn GREAT GAME!

 

Edited by Omgwtfggg
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Omgwtfggg said:

Maybe the ppl for loot drop didnt voice their opinions with the same intensity as the loot protection people so we get a response that the majority isnt really the majority.
...1million ppl view a youtube video and only 100,000 post on it... but all the posts seem extreme negative or positive... making the general opinion look like something the majority isnt...

Just for clarification. We all hate the 100% protection. I think we are arguing 50% at best with lego discs. 100% is crazy. And Im a gatherer...

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Omgwtfggg said:

It seemed like the devs tried to answer both parties this patch with loot protection for the gatherer/crafter and loot drop for the pvp'ers

Maybe the ppl for loot drop didnt voice their opinions with the same intensity as the loot protection people so we get a response that the majority isnt really the majority.
...1million ppl view a youtube video and only 100,000 post on it... but all the posts seem extreme negative or positive... making the general opinion look like something the majority isnt...

I think everyone dislikes the loot protection.  We hated mobile banking and this is even worse.

Edited by RetroSweater
spelling
Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the game at least needs the option to have loot loss (equipment/inventory), but acquiring that loot shouldn't be a mind numbing experience. Loot comes pretty easy in Albion.

 

I definitely don't think there needs to be any kind of inventory protection.

Edited by Helix
Link to post
Share on other sites

WHY would you add it, listen to feedback that was almost 100% "It's neat but just too high" and then decide to TOTALLY remove it devs? What are you smoking? Are you just flinging crap at a wall and seeing what sticks? Seriously?

Shadowbane style advantage / disadvantage disciplines when? ~Yianni 1/21/21

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Wait, you mean they added gear drop in to a game with a harvesting and crafting economy that wasn't designed around gear dropping, didn't change the harvesting or crafting systems, and it was a terrible time?

Oh man.

Who could have seen that coming?

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Omgwtfggg said:

❤️ you all and hopefully we get a godamn GREAT GAME!

I mean this. I don't think anyone's tryna be nerds we just want the best for the game.

The problem is the disconnect with the devs not willing to take the time to understand how their game functions at the moment and then take the time to make the necessary tweaks to seamlessly add something as game-changing and POTENTIALLY game-saving as gear drop.

I'm 100% with Parallel on the "zombie rush" issue needing addressed. I trust you all have enough experience in other PvP games to be confident that this is the right direction for Crowfall. And that gear drop *under the current system* will not add to the demoralization of getting zerged and drive even more small guilds away but in fact help out the smaller size units when they play their cards right.

So if we're saying straight 20% gear drop *under the current system* will bring more people IN to the game and more people OUT of their keeps during off-hours then hell yeah I'm all for it. Otherwise you gotta wait til they redesign more or less their whole stuff which drives us further away from launch and definitely will not happen pre-6.500.

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

 Wait, you mean they added gear drop in to a game with a harvesting and crafting economy that wasn't designed around gear dropping, didn't change the harvesting or crafting systems, and it was a terrible time?

Oh man.

Who could have seen that coming?

I agree, but Its quite confusing since at one time the economy was supposed to be robust and player run, EK's were to be bustling marketplace hubs, gear was never to be dropped from mobs and instead was to be all crafted in an easy come easy go model(their words mind you)... So its easy to be confused as to what system or systems are supposed to be in place at any given time! Perhaps we can check the roadmap and see what is still upcoming and what has changed... oh....

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I agree, but Its quite confusing since at one time the economy was supposed to be robust and player run, EK's were to be bustling marketplace hubs, gear was never to be dropped from mobs and instead was to be all crafted in an easy come easy go model(their words mind you)... So its easy to be confused as to what system or systems are supposed to be in place at any given time! Perhaps we can check the roadmap and see what is still upcoming and what has changed... oh....

Roadmaps are irrelevant. When you make a change, regardless of if it was planned five years ago or you just decided to change it you have to consider the impact of that change on the product as it exists. I don't care what anyone's interpretation of what things are "meant" to be like. I only care about what they are like and how any new change impact how they play now.

The initial 6.4 patch notes state they want to move toward more easy-come easy-go. Whether or not I personally agree that this is a great direction to go is irrelevant. I and many others have said their piece on this subject over the years and ACE's desired direction, as of 6.4, is clearly communicated in text. The discussion of whether we should do the thing is over so the question becomes how do we do the thing properly? What matters is that they are adding the easy-go without the corresponding easy-come to balance it out. As a result the gear drop or increased death durability loss changes simply are not achieving their stated purpose.

It doesn't matter what systems are "supposed" to be in place as from our perspective as players we can't operate on that information. We can only operate on the systems already in place, and the systems already in place have been continually adjusted for years around a single long-farm to long-use item economy.

Sticking additional item loss in to that model isn't going to work without hitting the other end and making items useful for your build themselves easier to come by in some manner. Player gear looting in a system with so many item variables does a terrible job of acting as a replacement for lost items. Relying on player loot as replacement gear works far better in a more rigid form of itemization where it is easy to replace a sword with a virtually identical sword because there are only a small number of sword types in the game.

To get anything useful for my build as player loot in crowfall I have to loot very specific items types with very specific stat rolls from a massive number of possible combinations. This isn't Albion or EVE where a solid 1/4 of players I kill are carrying something I actually want to use.

Player looting just isn't, and will never be a reliable source of replacement gear in the crafting system we have, and so the logical option is "craft the gear I need and be pleasantly surprised if I loot something I can actually find useful" and that means if you're going to add player looting, increased durability loss, etc. you MUST make acquiring that gear less painful through either increased harvesting yields, lower crafting costs, or both in order to balance your "easy-go" with a corresponding amount of "easy-come"

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

Just for clarification. We all hate the 100% protection. I think we are arguing 50% at best with lego discs. 100% is crazy. And Im a gatherer...

This 50% is the absolute most acceptable if there's ever going to be a healthy amount of risk in harvesting. Personally I don't see the need to protect it at all considering that ACE has worked so hard over the years to make harvesting have no build costs that impact a harvester's ability to defend themselves.

 

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

To get anything useful for my build as player loot in crowfall I have to loot very specific items types with very specific stat rolls from a massive number of possible combinations.

It's the same as WT drops though, if you can't use it then pass it to a guildmate or sell it. I'd like to shop at the vendor that has quality crafted black market gear :ph34r:

 

4 hours ago, RetroSweater said:

I think everyone dislikes the loot protection.

I like the harvester resource protection, but I think it should scale on discipline quality (e.g. 20-80%). Some percent of guaranteed result will encourage more players to take the risk.

tiPrpwh.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...