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Crafting and harvesting progression should be addressed


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I kinda thought this would've been a 6.4 thing since the changes happened in 6.3

The current implementation of crafting and harvesting progression is pretty terrible. I mean, come on, why is progression tied to RNG? Having crafting and harvesting runes discs pop out of thin air just seems really weird and unpredictable.

Progression for these activities needs to be way more stream lined and predictable.

Why can't we have linear progression when it comes to crafting and harvesting? You do a task, your bar increments towards the milestone which opens up access to the next tiered discipline. Simple and straight forward and easy to understand. It's also predictable.

 

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As I am literally unable to convince my guild's most hardcore harvesters and crafters to even log in to the game at this point I guess I'll just keep posting the same thing I've been posting ever sinc

I kinda thought this would've been a 6.4 thing since the changes happened in 6.3 The current implementation of crafting and harvesting progression is pretty terrible. I mean, come on, why is prog

Just quoting myself here. I still don't understand why we are supposed to go through that grind again. Not sure if people who dislike the system are the minority, because I haven't seen many comp

On 2/5/2021 at 5:55 PM, Koerpermilch said:

From my point of view crafting progression is still more of an issue than wartribe gear dropping with decent stats or devs thinking about more penalties for dying in pvp.
Ever since crafting became active progression without a limit per account the harvesting and crafting aspect of the game became a very common mmo progression:
You grind it till "endgame", because that is the cap.
Every somewhat competitive guild will do that once the game releases with probably most people involved in it dedicating the majority of their time to it until they reach the cap.
It's a risk-free thing to do, it's not challenging, it just an annoying grind. Most will probably not even complain and just do it, but is it a reason to keep it like this and shift focus to other elements of the game?
I do like that it made crafting within multiple professions much more accessible to individuals and smaller groups/guilds by removing the account-based restrictions, but it feels like it's not getting the necessary iteration.

Just quoting myself here. I still don't understand why we are supposed to go through that grind again.

Not sure if people who dislike the system are the minority, because I haven't seen many complain about it, just acknowledging the fact that it's a grind.

Where's the fun in it? Hitting nodes just to get the discs? Putting tons of man hours in to farm the gold to buy the domination dust? Just to finally be able to properly harvest and craft in Dregs which will at that point have a population of <10 in EU because people came for PvP? In a game that is probably wiped again with the next iteration of the system or ultimately with the release?

I selfishly hope more people come to dislike the grind aspect of this system now that we don't start with pre-hoarded resources like in 6.3.

Just please question the purpose of the exploration progression system in your game, ACE.
Especially before toying around with loot drop and harvest protection, which are just additional, interdepedent small systems that do not solve any existing issues. Who asked for that?

 

 

 

Edited by Koerpermilch
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1 hour ago, Helix said:

I kinda thought this would've been a 6.4 thing since the changes happened in 6.3

The current implementation of crafting and harvesting progression is pretty terrible. I mean, come on, why is progression tied to RNG? Having crafting and harvesting runes discs pop out of thin air just seems really weird and unpredictable.

Progression for these activities needs to be way more stream lined and predictable.

Why can't we have linear progression when it comes to crafting and harvesting? You do a task, your bar increments towards the milestone which opens up access to the next tiered discipline. Simple and straight forward and easy to understand. It's also predictable.

 

Well to be fair to ACE, they basically did that for crafting, but hide the information or bar increment indicator.

There is a new 'luck' value that increments up every time you craft, that changes your chance for a rune drop for the better, until you get a rune.

It's impossible to RNG fail forever with that sort of model, and sometimes you get "lucky" and pull a rune statistically sooner than you 'should'. 

That's for just crafting so far, not harvesting.  

Given how long we have had 6.4 (less than 24hrs), I seriously doubt that anyone has had enough time to have pushed enough materials into the crafting grinder to figure out the new rune periods. (Tries between runes). 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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1 hour ago, Koerpermilch said:

Not sure if people who dislike the system are the minority, because I haven't seen many complain about it, just acknowledging the fact that it's a grind.

Its not the minority, its just that there is so much grind in this game now that many folks have moved on or cant be bothered to complain about every instance where they added grind for the sake of grind.

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I'm going to have to agree the grind has made me a bit lazy and to grind to level 30, harvest, then craft is a project in itself.   The thought of allocating so much more hours after we did it before just doesn't motivate me to repeat the process again.

Edited by Covergirl925
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And what would be the other option? Wait god knows how many weeks to even bother to start trying gathering?

And no, RNG isnt really random. I think the data was 1 discs every 9 nodes for mining.

Sure sometimes you cant get some bad streaks but nobody acknowledges the times they get lucky. Yesterday i got my first grave digger on my 4th grave. Got another 8 or so graves later. That seems incredibly reasonable to me.

They could hard code it and spend some time making a UI with a progress bar that shows you are this close from getting a drop. But honestly, it is the same stuff we have today. Just more troublesome to add. Yall would still need to mine 900 ores to get 100 explorations discs or whatever...

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They said this was a "PLACEHOLDER" system, but I'm doubting that since it seems like they just moved on from the idea of a more creative permanent solution.

 

And I've gone through 10 picks without a single rune drop for ore mining... not much fun in that kind of RNG.

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4 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

And no, RNG isnt really random. I think the data was 1 discs every 9 nodes for mining.

 

1 hour ago, Brautigan said:

And I've gone through 10 picks without a single rune drop for ore mining... not much fun in that kind of RNG.

Hopefully there is some decent data being collected to balance it out as it seems players are having rather different experiences. Which smells like casino RNG to me. When will loot boxes be added?

 


 

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9 minutes ago, APE said:

 

Hopefully there is some decent data being collected to balance it out as it seems players are having rather different experiences. Which smells like casino RNG to me. When will loot boxes be added?

I could very well be the manner in which the seed is generated. Some games have used a static unique string for rng, leading to claims of lucky accounts and other such shennanigans. I remember when bdo launched, almost a decade now, lol. Anyways, the meta was to generate toons and run them up in level over and over looking for characters that had low mp and hp since there was tiny hidden attributes upon level up that effected mp, hp, crit chance, luck, ect. Since HP and MP was easy to see if hidden attributes were allocated to that bonus, it made sense to find those with that lowest number. They did have to change this after launch due to outcry, but the spectre of account based luck modifier never went away. 

Phantasy star online and maple story 2 had issues with rng seeds and didnt aion allow one to manipulate rng with /roll command to cycle out future bad rng? Way too early and not enough players to determine how they coded their rng simulator.

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15 minutes ago, APE said:

 

Hopefully there is some decent data being collected to balance it out as it seems players are having rather different experiences. Which smells like casino RNG to me. When will loot boxes be added?

Ive not even made 10 picks and ive got 6 drops of miner. If ive had to guess i think im in my sixth or seventh pick.

Normally id ask whether they are using Intermediate tools but Brau is an old hand so prolly bugged.

So if you are seeing bad rng please post it on the feedback. How many nodes you farmed, what tools you used, etc.

Hell ive farmed 3 or so hour tops and im well on my way to purple discs. I am thinking im moving a tad too fast...

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1 hour ago, BarriaKarl said:

Ive not even made 10 picks and ive got 6 drops of miner. If ive had to guess i think im in my sixth or seventh pick.

Normally id ask whether they are using Intermediate tools but Brau is an old hand so prolly bugged.

So if you are seeing bad rng please post it on the feedback. How many nodes you farmed, what tools you used, etc.

Hell ive farmed 3 or so hour tops and im well on my way to purple discs. I am thinking im moving a tad too fast...

Did you equip a green as soon as you got one? 

 

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1 hour ago, Brautigan said:

Did you equip a green as soon as you got one? 

 

Yes. I remember i didnt want to go all the way to the temple but skipping the toolkit  and mining with 1 plentiful felt like a waste so i forced myself to go there and back.

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14 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

And what would be the other option? Wait god knows how many weeks to even bother to start trying gathering?

And no, RNG isnt really random. I think the data was 1 discs every 9 nodes for mining.

Sure sometimes you cant get some bad streaks but nobody acknowledges the times they get lucky. Yesterday i got my first grave digger on my 4th grave. Got another 8 or so graves later. That seems incredibly reasonable to me.

They could hard code it and spend some time making a UI with a progress bar that shows you are this close from getting a drop. But honestly, it is the same stuff we have today. Just more troublesome to add. Yall would still need to mine 900 ores to get 100 explorations discs or whatever...

If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Other games have succeeded in transparent and easy to understand crafting/harvesting progression where crowfall has failed. Saying RNG isn't random, and then saying you can get bad streaks is an odd statement.

There shouldn't be good or bad "streaks". There should be zero randomness in how you unlock the green discipline milestone, or blue discipline milestone. You hit x resource for y amount of times, you reach the milestone, you buy the discipline. There should be a natural and easy to understand path to progress. The current system is totally hokey and amateurish.

Edited by Helix
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If you want JTodd to actually reply then tag him him Twitter with the post.  He is much better about responding then.  

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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47 minutes ago, mandalore said:

If you want JTodd to actually reply then tag him him Twitter with the post.  He is much better about responding then.  

Indeed, posting on their own forums dedicated to the launch of a future game that goes so far as to send you to this website for feedback is certainly not the place to interact with the development team. 

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4 hours ago, mystafyi said:

Indeed, posting on their own forums dedicated to the launch of a future game that goes so far as to send you to this website for feedback is certainly not the place to interact with the development team. 

Hey man I agree it’s absurd but that’s the sad truth. JTodd gets flooded with tears here but a good @ on Twitter prob alerts on his phone so it’s not going to be lost in the forums. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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9 hours ago, Helix said:

If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Other games have succeeded in transparent and easy to understand crafting/harvesting progression where crowfall has failed. Saying RNG isn't random, and then saying you can get bad streaks is an odd statement.

There shouldn't be good or bad "streaks". There should be zero randomness in how you unlock the green discipline milestone, or blue discipline milestone. You hit x resource for y amount of times, you reach the milestone, you buy the discipline. There should be a natural and easy to understand path to progress. The current system is totally hokey and amateurish.

Indeed and the RNG thing works just right to me.

I know we all remember the bad streaks, but do we remember the good ones? Yesterday i once again got a gravedigger on my first pass on a graveyard with a new toon. That is a lucky thing. I am aware enough to remember that when i get a bad streak. Most people dont. They might get 2 drops in the span of 5 nodes but once they go 15+ nodes without a drop they will scream bloody murder.

And I dont know how you make it easier than a X chance to drop a disc.

I decided to once again test while i farm today. 6 picks and 4 shovels to use. Already got a gravedigger like i said.

And yes, it would be good if they changed it to fixed rates, but then they would have to make UI to track it, prolly change the rates. And today id rather they focus on the real problems this game has. Like you said, If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

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Do discs still drop in Infected? I;ve been skinning away all day, and not had a single drop. Am I just a victim of RNGesus, or did I miss a memo somewhere about them not dropping in infected any more?

For ref: White Skinning disc slotted, Kebab and potion taken, and an intermediate knife, so I'd think I should have seen at least one drop by now.

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