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Crafting and harvesting progression should be addressed


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4 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

Indeed and the RNG thing works just right to me.

I know we all remember the bad streaks, but do we remember the good ones? Yesterday i once again got a gravedigger on my first pass on a graveyard with a new toon. That is a lucky thing. I am aware enough to remember that when i get a bad streak. Most people dont. They might get 2 drops in the span of 5 nodes but once they go 15+ nodes without a drop they will scream bloody murder.

And I dont know how you make it easier than a X chance to drop a disc.

I decided to once again test while i farm today. 6 picks and 4 shovels to use. Already got a gravedigger like i said.

And yes, it would be good if they changed it to fixed rates, but then they would have to make UI to track it, prolly change the rates. And today id rather they focus on the real problems this game has. Like you said, If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

The old passive system took way too long for new comers to catch up to old boys.

The new system is in some instances way too fast.

You don't want people crafting the "best stuff" a week, or two weeks, or even three weeks in. You have to keep the carrot on the stick and have them chasing the "next" thing for as long as possible. You also, however, don't want to make it feel like a grueling experience. This introduce more grind, but it will be way more transparent and predictable. Rather than telling the player to use X number of tools and pray to RNGJesus, they'll be able to see a tangible goal post. RNG is the lazy answer.

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As I am literally unable to convince my guild's most hardcore harvesters and crafters to even log in to the game at this point I guess I'll just keep posting the same thing I've been posting ever sinc

I kinda thought this would've been a 6.4 thing since the changes happened in 6.3 The current implementation of crafting and harvesting progression is pretty terrible. I mean, come on, why is prog

Just quoting myself here. I still don't understand why we are supposed to go through that grind again. Not sure if people who dislike the system are the minority, because I haven't seen many comp

5 hours ago, Sparktacus said:

Do discs still drop in Infected? I;ve been skinning away all day, and not had a single drop. Am I just a victim of RNGesus, or did I miss a memo somewhere about them not dropping in infected any more?

For ref: White Skinning disc slotted, Kebab and potion taken, and an intermediate knife, so I'd think I should have seen at least one drop by now.

I have been tracking my progression:

Took skinning 9 animals to get my first skinning disc.  Second disc came after another 16 animals, third disc came after just another 6 animals.  So far that's 3 discs in 31 animals......now I'm sitting at 43 more animals and have yet to see my 4th disc drop.

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3 minutes ago, Teufel said:

I have been tracking my progression:

Took skinning 9 animals to get my first skinning disc.  Second disc came after another 16 animals, third disc came after just another 6 animals.  So far that's 3 discs in 31 animals......now I'm sitting at 43 more animals and have yet to see my 4th disc drop.

I just went through 7 more ore picks without a single rune drop. Seems to be very streaky.

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1 hour ago, Helix said:

You have to keep the carrot on the stick and have them chasing the "next" thing for as long as possible.

Personally I would prefer the carrot to always be the keeps & castles.  The personal players gear could be accessible within a week, as it has no long term effects on how skilled a person is that PvPs during sieges.  Crowfall's endgame (if there is such) was a focus on sieging, and I feel the focus for enticement needs to be on the large assets, not the smaller character.

Crafting is currently not fun; it's a chore.  It has been decently fun on Test, because resources are easy to get.  I will harvest because it's a need, but a lot of the stuff being harvested is just for progression, and I feel that's just not good for the community of players and good for the economy.  Each item produced should have a reason.

I just came up with this idea, so it's not fully fleshed out: but what if guards in keeps/castles needed a weekly supply of gear (armor/weapons) to maintain their current strength.  That gear would be crafted gear, and give a reason for crafters to hold onto the lowest color of gear (WT gear could not be used for this, it would have to be player made).  This would be a tax for keeping guards in the keeps/castles, but it's integrating the crafters more into the economy.  It doesn't address all the issues you bring up, but it would help in finding low level resources useful for the long game, and not just as a pass through to purple/orange gear.

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20 minutes ago, Teufel said:

I have been tracking my progression:

Took skinning 9 animals to get my first skinning disc.  Second disc came after another 16 animals, third disc came after just another 6 animals.  So far that's 3 discs in 31 animals......now I'm sitting at 43 more animals and have yet to see my 4th disc drop.

Was that in infected? Or Dregs?

I'm well into 50 animals now, with no drops.

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19 minutes ago, Sparktacus said:

Was that in infected? Or Dregs?

I'm well into 50 animals now, with no drops.

This was infected, all R4/R5 animals, green skinning belt and green skinning disc.  I alluded to my totals, but never mentioned the number of knives I've gone through; I crafted 10 knives, and have used them all on the above mentioned 74 animals.

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Gathering does seem erratic, I seem to have been lucky and got my 10 initial discs in about 3-4 hours with a few intermediate picks left. I focused r1 nodes in the temple area of infected.

Edited by Duffy

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11 hours ago, Duffy said:

Gathering does seem erratic, I seem to have been lucky and got my 10 initial discs in about 3-4 hours with a few intermediate picks left. I focused r1 nodes in the temple area of infected.

Well there goes my theory! Based on Teufel's post, I went out into the second region of Infected, rather than D'Hathos, and tried harvesting T4 animals, rather than the T3s i'd previously been going with. Green Disc dropped instantly, followed by 2 more within about half an hour.

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Would love to see the old passive trees come back but with active progression  instead of time gating, base it off the raw experince values of nodes for harvesting (so hitting higher tier nodes counts for more) and the same for crafting higher quality crafts. I don't mind grind, i do mind RNG grind even with bad luck protection in place, it still hurts.

as the crafter and harvester progress to the advanced trees, the lower qualities and nodes could become less impactful in the XP they give to progression (but still give a little so you dont nullify the usefulness of activities). The nodes could also have a 1 time gold cost attached to them to "activate" the node to keep a gold sink in there if required.

This would allow a deeper sense of control over progression for the player and ACE would be able to tweak per pip/per node/per tree experince gains and requirements so that progression can find that sweet spot between feeling good and feeling awful :)

Yes this is essential Albions destiny board but with more choices as the destiny board was much linear than the old passive trees expanding from a central node point.

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9 hours ago, Marklarr said:

Would love to see the old passive trees come back but with active progression  instead of time gating, base it off the raw experince values of nodes for harvesting (so hitting higher tier nodes counts for more) and the same for crafting higher quality crafts. I don't mind grind, i do mind RNG grind even with bad luck protection in place, it still hurts.

Indeed. I was hoping they would go to a blended system of active and passive training with their change, but i am not sure we are at a point of return.

If its not RNG, but a progression system then isnt that really just a grind based time gate depending upon how long it takes you to grind the tasks to advance? At that point, why not just remove the grind and have a time gate? 

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47 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

Indeed. I was hoping they would go to a blended system of active and passive training with their change, but i am not sure we are at a point of return.

If its not RNG, but a progression system then isnt that really just a grind based time gate depending upon how long it takes you to grind the tasks to advance? At that point, why not just remove the grind and have a time gate? 

Personal opinion, I think they could cover off on some of the old passive training goals with a Universal Basic Income (UBI) of 1 GP/Minute/Account.  (1440 GP/Day)

Why I think this would be a good idea.

  1. If all you did was purchase domain dust would gather at a rate of 1/2.7 Days.
    1. So to upgrade from green to blue would be 8.3 days. 
    2. One profession to gold rune would be 100 days. (Not counting the belt)
  2. The desire to not feel like your falling behind if you don't play all the time, would be mitigated at that rate. 
    1. Players that play know that 1.5k gold is about the value of sweeping one camp one time, so it's not massive.
  3. It could be used for whatever they wanted to catch up. Buy gear, mats, runes, or whatever. 
  4. Would still require you get the runes from doing the activity or purchase for even slower results.
  5. Would be very easy to explain.
  6. We now have some marvelous gold sinks. The fast mount is 100k or would be 70 days of UBI.

I think that would be simple hybrid system

 


 

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I had to ask guild members to really educate me on this and they gave me this link below which help me understand it all a bit.

https://crowfall.com/en-US/news/articles/december-live-stream

So I'm guessing as a Blacksmith it would be best to concentrate on crafting advance items for things to proc?   So what I will do now for harvesting is use intermediate tools to harvest in the infected. 

Edited by Covergirl925
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2 hours ago, Covergirl925 said:

I had to ask guild members to really educate me on this and they gave me this link below which help me understand it all a bit.

https://crowfall.com/en-US/news/articles/december-live-stream

So I'm guessing as a Blacksmith it would be best to concentrate on crafting advance items for things to proc?   So what I will do now for harvesting is use intermediate tools to harvest in the infected. 

When you harvest with intermediate or better tools, you will proc the resource type rune.  You want to equip the first green that drops, then you need 3 more to make a blue (Plus gold farming to buy dominion dust). Then 9, then 27.  You can jump to the 27 and combine all at once. Once you hit purple (the 9 one), you can equip advanced harvesting tools which are far better.

To gain crafting runes, you need to craft the final stage on items.  I am not sure what the most efficient item to build for Blacksmith (Actually weapon smith or armor smith) is. 

The same upgrade path applies. 

You also need the runes to combine belts. You can buy those once you have the green rune equipped.  They will take way more runes, and way more gold to finish.  They are sort of the crafting endgame item. 

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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I absolutely love the fact that I can kill mobs over half a zone before they respawn...and having gold throttling every mother custard part of this grind fest.....sweet bitches....Gimme 5 beta keys....

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59 minutes ago, Drexl_Spivey said:

I absolutely love the fact that I can kill mobs over half a zone before they respawn...and having gold throttling every mother custard part of this grind fest.....sweet bitches....Gimme 5 beta keys....

Using an ellipse like that makes it seem like you want it to be read as though you were Kirk. 

 

What gold throttling? 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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On 2/12/2021 at 2:03 PM, Helix said:

Why can't we have linear progression when it comes to crafting and harvesting? You do a task, your bar increments towards the milestone which opens up access to the next tiered discipline. Simple and straight forward and easy to understand. It's also predictable.

This would be my preference too, it might seem boring but at least it wouldn't feel as painful as when you get an unlucky streak of RNG. Also if it was linear XP, it could have an additional passive component like the "rested XP" system in WoW which would be a nice compromise.

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15 hours ago, mystafyi said:

Indeed. I was hoping they would go to a blended system of active and passive training with their change, but i am not sure we are at a point of return.

If its not RNG, but a progression system then isnt that really just a grind based time gate depending upon how long it takes you to grind the tasks to advance? At that point, why not just remove the grind and have a time gate? 

the problem with a pure time gate is that its impossible for newer players to catch up quickly which as we saw with the previous pure passive system which caused players to leave, it also means that guilds that "lose" a crafter have a much harder time recovering. Although the grind is quite meh, it is an active activity that does have a reward at the end that can be looked towards, when its just purely time then you are helpless to advance it through play time.

Would love to see a hybrid system with a passive part to allow less frequent players have a small catchup bonus (albion has this with learning points that are used) or rested XP from WoW could also work.

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