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"ACE Q&A Livestream March 2nd" discussion


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Bringing Hunger Dome back pretty much saves Crowfall for me.  It is where I will spend the vast majority of my playtime, because small group PvP is where Crowfall shines, and hunger dome back in the d

The reward for being online, and exposing yourself to risk, should be generating value. A fundamental problem in the game is that gold is just not valuable enough. There is no economy, there is not a

You know one thing that scares me about this hunger dome is will it provide content or remove content. your removing players from the open world and putting them in instances so there even less things

5 hours ago, APE said:
  • Launch is this year.
  • Bunch of stuff is missing, unfinished, and planned for the future.
  • Arena mode in a game lacking cosmetics is going to bring in new players and being at a power disadvantage will incentivize them to play the MMO. Disregard balance is a big reason why such formats are popular and that gaining that power requires them going up against players already at an advantage on the MMO side.
  • UI wasn't designed with customization in mind...
  • Somehow what appear to be as tricky if not more so features, systems, and overhauls will be developed at a fraction of the time it has taken previous development over the last ~6 years.
  • Current version will receive HD 2.0, Factories (maybe?), and further polish but looks and sounds like this is what launch will be.
  • Lack of economic tools/accessibility and off peak content are not being addressed pre-launch.

They are just throwing crap at the wall now, perpetual campaigns even came up. With Texas removing all covid restrictions there might not be another 1.5 million give-away for ace and they need enough funds to stay open after game launches. As Todd said, they need revenue even though cash shop options like skins and such are pushed back to after launch. Moving towards launch without monitization figured out seems desperate. 

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Positives:

  • The hungerdome concept is awesome and it might actually end up drawing players into the game
  • Some of the short term goals could also help the game a lot

Negatives

  • Why would they announce that they are gonna launch this year. I dont get it. Why announce anything?
  • Unfortunately some key features wont make it for launch apparently
  • There is no combat abilities rework planned. I feel like most people playing this game actively currently are ok with the combat, but anyone outside of that echo chamber shares the sentiment that the abilities and class kits are lacking. And this while you are trying to attract the outside people with the launch this year. More dynamic and impactful animations and vfx paired with class kits that resemble more something similar to how mobas build their interdependencies of abilities would feel better imo. These are options that are entirely possible with the engine (that feels really good and responsive btw) , they dont add any complexity to the system, just new art assets are required. 

 

I hope they dont rush the launch. Please take your time.

Edited by Arsnn
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As the PvP in Crowfall is pretty much its most fun aspect, it's an interesting solution to let new players jump right into the fun with the Hunger Dome, and eventually if they want to go deeper in the Campaigns to experience the full MMO experience they can do that, rather than staying in HD forever.

Before, to get into PvP, new players had to follow a tutorial for 2 hours, then find and join a guild, and seek for PvP hot spots in the Campaigns. Now it's just clicking a button to get into the matchmaking.

Edited by francis101
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All I've seen is a lack of sensibility and a desperate attempt to bring in more players. I feel we've either been lied to for the past 4+ years about the type of game that was being made or you really have no freaking idea what you're doing! Need more players? Here's a thought, invite more players! Still need more players? How about advertise? 

I really do not get why you guys have wasted so much time on building a "open-world" game only to introduce a BR/arena style game! BR/arena kills open-world; It always has and always will! As its been stated many many times, outside of Dregs and Siege, what incentive do I have to play the game? With the answer being "nothing" why not improve on the already existing game rather than try to recreate it original purpose? 

In short, nothing you are doing is new. Its not refreshing and certainly does not offer anything that isn't already out there. As a pre-alpha backer I so wanted this game to work, but its painfully clear this is another DOA project that needs a huge red sticker reading "Cash Grab!" 

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Bringing Hunger Dome back pretty much saves Crowfall for me.  It is where I will spend the vast majority of my playtime, because small group PvP is where Crowfall shines, and hunger dome back in the day (even before class/race split) was the most fun I've ever had in Crowfall.

Although I'll be spending most of my time in Hunger Dome, I will also have to level my HD characters in the campaign, and get their disciplines and vessels there.   That means I will be playing more campaigns than I would have (because I would have played none - I was walking away from CF after my 4th guild quit the game same as the ones before).  I will need to join a guild to get vessels made, and will therefore be obligated to show up for sieges to help the guild.

This thread has a bunch of newbies who never experienced Hunger Dome whining about how it will take players out of the campaigns.  That's the wrong way of thinking about it.  It will bring PvP-focused players back to Crowfall.  There's a large segment of testers who walked away because the campaigns are more work than fun.  Hunger Dome is pure fun with no grind.

And it's not like people are playing the campaigns outside siege hours anyway.  The campaigns are an empty wasteland of content.  Hunger Dome provides constant PvP at any time of day.

I am absolutely thrilled at the return of Hunger Dome.  Now all the devs have to do is get pvp balance right.

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Well hungerdome is good news in the short run, until the MMO throne war simulation we were promessed reaches mid term goals. New players will be able to test classes this way and find their playstyle before investing in the game. It will also be a good ground to practice PvP for veterans in smaller guilds. Frankly, most of my experience in PvP these days is being zerked 5 or even 10 vs 1 or 2. This ain't PvP, it's a massacre. 

Yes, the drawback is that part of the population will leave campains on the short run (until short term fixes are in and some of the mid term ones start to appear). But if more people join in hungerdome it will sure have a good mid term to long term impact on campaign population, especially if shadow opens up (better world for small guild/new players). if players enjoy the dome experience, they will sure try the campaign part!

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I think the game's success required that they have more content that could be consistent.  As much as I love the game itself, the actual fun content is few and far between which made it hard to want to spend the time to progress in the game.  Hunger Dome gives a fun and on-demand content loop that focuses around the game's best feature, the group pvp.

I think the key is to make sure that the Hunger Dome mode is connected to the persistent world in a balanced way.  If it doesn't benefit the persistent game than a lot of people will see it as a waste of time compared to grinding for progress, but if it's the best way to get reward/loot/resources then the campaigns will die.

If they can manage to interconnect the modes in a balanced manner and make sieging less of a job then I think the game has a legitimate future and I think without something more than mass pvp, harvesting and crafting the game didn't have a future.

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3 hours ago, mystafyi said:

Moving towards launch without monitization figured out seems desperate. 

I am interested how it will work as most lobby games are F2P these days. Do they expect new players to spend $50 to try out a BR without cosmetics, leaderboards, and other standard features?

No mention of VIP on those slides, wondering how that is coming along as well since VIP seemed like it would be a decent source of their projected revenue.

 


 

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14 hours ago, veeshan said:

tbh they would of been better off imo throwing all focus on getting parcel interaction going before launching atleast then they can do thing for territory systems and detering zerg vombat (Having a parcel limit of say 10 people in non seige one where onmce they get above that every x amount of peopole give a stack debuff of 5% less hp/AP/SP or something would go a long way , small keeps can be 20 large keep 40 and castles 60 or something so smaller/mid range guilds have a place and able to compete with zergs with owning property.
Atm game will come out and small guilds will leave cause they cant compete and mid range guilds may try something but we all see the nut cup happening now it will be worst on release :P no one want to aliance smaller guild either with the cap on guilds in alliances (Would of been better off if it was a member cap total but they dont want that) so i would of opted for no guild caps in alliances and have parcel debuff alliances on parcel fi they have to many friendly players on it. Territory system would also limit how much movement a zerg has in what territory they can take if implemented properly aswell so it would still allow smaller guild to carva a smaller plot for themselfs.

I always though they should add a "crowded" debuff with very simple rules. (Immune in temples)

 

If your character "pill" touches another characters "pill", both of you get a 10s debuff of crowded.  
Crowded = slowed, unhorsed, and stamina regen stops.

If your "crowded" and bump into another pill, you have a chance to self CC and become "tripped" Similar to knockdown, but can be much shorter.

No need to get fancy about counting numbers on parcels, or trying to guess parcel sizes and player balance on it.  Just put in a universal system that punishes you for being bunched up, the same way that trying to walk in/trough a crowd is difficult. 

 

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2 hours ago, Durenthal said:

Bringing Hunger Dome back pretty much saves Crowfall for me.  It is where I will spend the vast majority of my playtime, because small group PvP is where Crowfall shines, and hunger dome back in the day (even before class/race split) was the most fun I've ever had in Crowfall.

Although I'll be spending most of my time in Hunger Dome, I will also have to level my HD characters in the campaign, and get their disciplines and vessels there.   That means I will be playing more campaigns than I would have (because I would have played none - I was walking away from CF after my 4th guild quit the game same as the ones before).  I will need to join a guild to get vessels made, and will therefore be obligated to show up for sieges to help the guild.

This thread has a bunch of newbies who never experienced Hunger Dome whining about how it will take players out of the campaigns.  That's the wrong way of thinking about it.  It will bring PvP-focused players back to Crowfall.  There's a large segment of testers who walked away because the campaigns are more work than fun.  Hunger Dome is pure fun with no grind.

And it's not like people are playing the campaigns outside siege hours anyway.  The campaigns are an empty wasteland of content.  Hunger Dome provides constant PvP at any time of day.

I am absolutely thrilled at the return of Hunger Dome.  Now all the devs have to do is get pvp balance right.

I've just watched the replay of the video and seeing the HD get back the game hype me so much, i had so much fun back in the time and i think it's a good move + it will open pvp easily for new players and they will maybe stay after some matchs to go on the MMO side.

Good move

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Thelanas Kar'Pal Membre fondateur de l'alliance Naerth en 2001 - Ex Shadowbane European Advisor Damnation/Carnage/Vindication/Corruption http://www.twitch.tv/gorwald/profile

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I enjoyed Hunger Dome years ago more then I do the current campaign experience.

If they expect players to play HD until the MMO actually is worth playing which could take months/years if ever, I don't see myself sticking around.

ACE seems to be rolling the dice and hoping BR popularity will bring a population to keep the MMO a live.

Just have to ignore combat's low skill ceiling, imbalanced character design, lack of cosmetics and leaderboards, B2P when most are F2P, people that play the MMO grind will have a stat advantage, long list of games to compete against, etc.

I backed Crowfall with the hopes the Campaigns and being able to win/lose would be a fresh type of MMO format. It hasn't delivered. As seen on those slides, much is still MIA and will be delivered (maybe) after launch.

If I wanted to play an instanced arena then I'd play WoW, GW2, Albion (I do), ESO or others. All of which have more quality content along with some offering siege and larger scale open world PVP. Or I'd play Overwatch (I do), MOBA, FPS or any other game/genre with tons of players already and built specifically with competitive players in mind.

If HD is supposed to provide accessible PVP because campaigns are lacking, adding HD won't change the campaign issues. If the MMO is too difficult to get into for new players as they sort of joked about during the stream, being able to PVP quickly won't change that.

I wonder if offering a larger HD 50v50 would be popular and turn campaigns into complete ghost towns. Vanilla WoW AV matches (40v40) lasted hours if not days and IMO were more exciting then slogging through weeks of Crowfall campaigns and preset siege. Take HD, toss in better siege mechanics and I wonder how many would miss grinding PVE.

I'm glad HD is coming back and have wanted such a format from the start, but it's unfortunate that many of the reasons players have put Crowfall in their rearview won't be addressed by launch or ever.

Seems like a big gamble at this point, but hopefully it turns out well.

Edited by APE

 


 

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Oh boy...

I'll try to be positive, short, and constructive on this one.

1. Hunger dome why?  Time, resources, population...all being wasted in something that will NOT, CANNOT, and will NEVER compete with a real MOBA/FPS that was DESIGNED from the ground up/start as that type of game.  Why are you wanting to FURTHER split the population and character attachment in a MMORPG?

2. You mentioned bio's...Jungle and swamp?  We already have trees everywhere and you have snow build up.  Wouldn't it be 10x easier to just make a "snow" region and then have your artist sand/desert" for now?  That 3 drastically different bios for EACH faction done QUICKLY and effectively making your 3 realms feel "unique".

3. I heard the word "Shadowbane" eeked out...PLEASE, just accept that game should be your blue-print.  You want cash flow and you want hype/#'s returning...Keep your changes coming in THAT direction and your money/players WILL come back!

4. The discipline/rune changes, skins, freedom to build, and optimization ARE WHATS GOING TO SAVE YOUR GAME.  Those topics you hit on are what players WANTED from the start on this backing.  Please just focus on bringing back CHARACTER ATTACHMENT/DEVELOPMENT.  Stop messing with crafting, farming, pvp "spin-offs" and bring it back to a ONE-WORLD fully functioning MMO.  Pull us players into ONE constant war environment and then sell "tradeable" in store skins/mounts flashy items ect (with NO game stat advantages ) and you will have your positive cash flow.

I REALLY appreciated the upcoming layout, but hunger games kinda just made me shake my head....Why???  

Wrain

Edited by Wrain
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20 hours ago, Helix said:

Risk should be a huge component of the game, but it seems like they're walking back from that with the introduction of things like disciplines that reduce or negate inventory drop, etc.

Well, thats why pure pvp games are ultra niche and while hardcore pvp players think they are some large community, history shows they are very small and can not or will not support hardcore pvp games. Yes, there are freak examples like Eve that are contrary to this, but Eve is the only game of its type and there is nowhere else for that type of player to go. There are lots of places for fantasy gamers to go conversely.

I dont remember when I backed the game anymore, but it was a few weeks after kickstarter closed. I dont play this game and have no desire to as long as the playable ruleset has you dropping inventory or items. I enjoy pvp, I do not enjoy doing tedious gathering and crafter ad naseum because my stuff got looted.

There are more players like me than there are players who will accept dropping/losing their stuff as a part of the pvp experience. The major difference between the two groups is that we have the numbers to support a game while the hardcore players....well, the 25 people logged on currently tell the story.

The game will fold quickly if it only caters to the hardcore.

Edited by Toadwart
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7 hours ago, mystafyi said:

UI wasn't designed with customization in mind...

This stuck out to me as I watched the stream. The UI was redesigned at least 3 times. Why in the world was it not designed the first time with a foundation to move, resize and hide the UI elements? Customization was mentioned as far back as kickstarter. I cannot go with the excuse that the UI has to be redesigned a 4th time so that it can do what it was supposed to do the first time.

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1 hour ago, Toadwart said:

This stuck out to me as I watched the stream. The UI was redesigned at least 3 times. Why in the world was it not designed the first time with a foundation to move, resize and hide the UI elements? Customization was mentioned as far back as kickstarter. I cannot go with the excuse that the UI has to be redesigned a 4th time so that it can do what it was supposed to do the first time.

Don't worry, we now have even more UI clutter with oversized portrait art. Resources well spent. 😔

 


 

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1 hour ago, Toadwart said:

Well, thats why pure pvp games are ultra niche and while hardcore pvp players think they are some large community, history shows they are very small and can not or will not support hardcore pvp games. Yes, there are freak examples like Eve that are contrary to this, but Eve is the only game of its type and there is nowhere else for that type of player to go. There are lots of places for fantasy gamers to go conversely.

Albion Online is also one of these freaks. Looking at the numbers of EVE and Albion, there should be enough players to support more games like them.

Originally ACE was using Crowfall's uniqueness as a marketing tool, not just go for the most customers and do what everyone else does. Fact that are are more options for non "hardcore" players should make any half way decent game catering to them to be popular.

No they won't be #1, but when there are countless games and more on the way, trying to be #1 is pointless.

1 hour ago, Toadwart said:

I dont remember when I backed the game anymore, but it was a few weeks after kickstarter closed. I dont play this game and have no desire to as long as the playable ruleset has you dropping inventory or items. I enjoy pvp, I do not enjoy doing tedious gathering and crafter ad naseum because my stuff got looted.

Why did you back the game then? 

1 hour ago, Toadwart said:

There are more players like me than there are players who will accept dropping/losing their stuff as a part of the pvp experience. 

Maybe for MMOs, but not other genres. Player looting games come in many flavors and are very popular. Crowfall trying to blend strengths of different genres was part of the vision. Instead it ends up being a mediocre MMO with what looks like a poor BR mode.

1 hour ago, Toadwart said:

The game will fold quickly if it only caters to the hardcore.

Why would it only cater to "hardcore" players? Campaign rulesets allow different rules. They've already removed gear looting as it was too harsh for the softcore community here.

 


 

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21 hours ago, veeshan said:

You know one thing that scares me about this hunger dome is will it provide content or remove content. your removing players from the open world and putting them in instances so there even less things to do in the dregs sure we have the hunger dome now but it get to the point if it popular why did u even go about making a MMORPG in the first place. The gamer will resemble more of a game called Fury (Was an areana pvp game with a lobby system for vendors and things) Its will basicly be an areana game with extra steps with character creation and not much else going on inside the actual game world.
Maybe it a quick fix for the time being while you make a proper game since it seems the game wont realy be there until you hit mid term goals in 6-12 months after release (Which is when the game probaly should get released but u cant due to financial pressure/pressure from investors and so on) to me you need the parcel to parcel interactions before this can even feel like a proper mmorpg that you advertised back in kickstarter.

Thank you for stating this!  I understand that arena type mini games will bring in more players, but at what expense to the RPG aspect of the game.  While I like PvP games, it's not the only thing I want in a game; I also want the immersion of a fantasy world.....crafting, socialising, building, sieging, harvesting, exploring and some PvP mixed in with all the other components to make it a living MMORPG.

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2 minutes ago, Teufel said:

Thank you for stating this!  I understand that arena type mini games will bring in more players, but at what expense to the RPG aspect of the game.  While I like PvP games, it's not the only thing I want in a game; I also want the immersion of a fantasy world.....crafting, socialising, building, sieging, harvesting, exploring and some PvP mixed in with all the other components to make it a living MMORPG.

 BDO did this a few years ago and had to rip it out of the game. This will end the same way, failure.

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