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Ranger's normal attacks


Navystylz
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Posted this in suggestions, but putting here so people playing Rangers can actually see and give their thoughts on it. I posted this some time back in a list of some things I'd like to see for Ranger, some of which actually got put in the game.

Suggested before, wondering what others think: 

 

Currently Ranger's LMB  suffers from the damage not being worth the charge up to release each stage of the combo. I guess the mile may vary depending on the promotion. But inevitably someone is in your face smashing it in before you can get too many of these off, and nearly impossible to get them off in smaller scale fights. Going to use some made up numbers just to illustrate the concept.

1. Rather than LMB just charging up to do a single shot of the combo, let LMB charge up through 4 stages.

  • First stage is normal damage
  • Second stage is 1.5x damage
  • Third stage is 2x damage
  • Fourth (fully charged red) is 4x damage 'Aimed Shot.'

 

aimedshot_2.jpg

 

2. Player can release button at any stage to do the damage coinciding with the stage's damage.

3. If the player manages a fully charge 'Aimed Shot' then the ability to charge shots goes on cooldown for -- let's just say 40 seconds

  • If the player hits their 'Aimed Shot' then it applies 'Thrill of the Hunt' buff.
  • 'Thrill of the Hunt' increases Ranger's normal shot damage by 20%
  • Normal shot = tapping the LMB

4. This would serve to buff the stages of charge to be stronger and more forgiven to charge up some worthwhile damage. It would also allow a Ranger who has played well, and gave themselves enough breathing room, to do a good chunk of damage as reward, and buff their LMB tap so they can follow up with better shot damage, without being too strong.

5. This would be functionality that all Rangers would have, not just Archer. But could adjust the numbers and maybe the amount a Warden and Brigand damage could build up to, or Aimed Shot for to be less than an Archers. Though Archers get the superior range...

Edited by Navystylz
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  • 3 weeks later...

Great idea as long range is decreased. Firing x4 damage (1K to 1.2k) hit from 65m doesn't seem balanced. No other class in the game can do this. \

To fire an  aimed shot you should be stationary for at least 2 seconds

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On 3/29/2021 at 1:23 PM, WarRath said:

Great idea as long range is decreased. Firing x4 damage (1K to 1.2k) hit from 65m doesn't seem balanced. No other class in the game can do this. \

To fire an  aimed shot you should be stationary for at least 2 seconds

LoS them and then hit them 5 times when they get closer or reposition to hit u and they die, archers are not played much atm its mainly wardens speced for range alot of the time which only get 35m range

And most fights as a archer u tend not to be at 65m range anyway normal around the 30-45m is the typical distance ur at.

Some people even say archers are the weakest ranger spec currently.

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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I dont think 65m is that big of a deal most classes have that much in dodges and leaps and charges. There are a ton of gap closers in the game now . that being said the lmb does suck

Edited by Darkstar412
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  • 2 weeks later...

Long time player, first time poster

This post has piked my interest.

I am currently playing as an Archer; in my view a Warden and Brigand shouldn't get as much benefits out of the basic attack as an Archer. Sure, seems counter intuitive but it makes more sense for an Archer to benefit the most and the other two the least.

 

My reasoning:

Warden is a mixed melee ranged class that benefits from the ability of being able to use a few different weapons that deal different damage types well as competent CC through enhanced trapping and can wear medium armour. I initially played the Warden before turning to the Archer; I like the traps and CC, the build for Warden I was using was Plague domain, so yes, plague lord, poison trapper, touch of rot... you get the drift. Back on point, if the Warden gets a buff to basic ranged attack I feel it will make them a bit meta-ery and then people will call out 'zomfgnerfdisroflmaoelkenOP wtfbbqsauce!!!111'. I certainly do not want this.

Brigand is your typical sneaky rogue; the skills in the profession is kind of hinting at the type of play style you should be using. I haven't played as a Brigand nor an Assassin for that matter but I suspect that a Brigand plays a similar way to an Assassin? Happy to be corrected on this. Brigand seems like you want to stun trap first (from stealth) then alpha strike with bleeding then quickly run away laughing while the rest of the team ganks them as the target is left sitting there bleeding unable to heal themselves (or defend themselves) against the pain train barrelling down on them. When they're dead, you can now harvest the Knotted Wood tree they were harvesting.. you dastardly mean person you 😜 lol

 

In my view, the Archer profession sadly, does need a buff to basic attack. I think the buff should be included in the Archer profession node for the basic attack's 'Charge bar' that speeds it up; as noted, there are so many dodges, leaps, charges etc to close the range available to all classes, so a long skill 'charge' is kind of redundant as most players are already in your face hitting you with debuffs, cc's etc. People who complain that they can't catch an Archer need to have their head looked at.

OP's idea looks cool however my thoughts are, if you can get to the end of the charge bar and let loose a shot, then I think it should be a nasty spank on the behind to the enemy player/s:

1 - do 4x damage with an +25% critical rate at +150% critical damage (so basically almost a one shot kill: which if placed in context of a sneaky rogue/assassin skulking around and targeting squishy ranged DPS and clothies gives them a reason for existing in mob fights and putting the fear of god in Archers) - I note here that current mechanics for the wood elf for instance if you start channeling a basic attack from stealth, you unstealth, so yeah, no stealth hits from a level 4 charge; or

2 - do 4x damage with a chance (30% sounds about fair?) to speed up the next charge by 50% charge speed (in context: you're a skilled archer, years spent drilling and honing the disciplined skills of rapid nocking, aiming and firing) which would make an Archer a true threat, instead of a roflcopter.

 

I don't think a damage buff of 20% to the 'tap' attack is appropriate because then it basically makes Trick shot useless (and no difference to playing an Archer vs Warden and Brigand) in the sense that the reason you take trick shot is so you can charge up basic attack to level 4.. you can't have your cake and eat it - you either pick mobility (trick shot) or mutliple damage dealing (ricochet shot)

I honestly prefer trick shot for the very reason of mobility - coupled with a certain minor and a certain stat, I can at some times keep outside of melee players range... I just gotta watch out for Frostweavers

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Watch Rufio's stream when is playing his Archer. The dude is doing 2.3K aimed shoots and 500/hit multi-shots. Archers are true snipers when built right

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/22/2021 at 6:50 AM, WarRath said:

Watch Rufio's stream when is playing his Archer. The dude is doing 2.3K aimed shoots and 500/hit multi-shots. Archers are true snipers when built right

But can u pull that 2.3k off often enough before someone smashes your head in? I really feel that the combined time of the multiple bar loadups is just too much. Also Rufio is probably not the best example since his Char is most likely top 5% of progression. 

Edit:

I totally second the TE, I would prefer something in the ballpark of his idea. 

Stationary Drawing/Aiming

So basically you could just make a charge bar even. Without stages, scaling damage, so the more time you take for your shot the more bang you get.

And to make shooting on the run less favorable you could do something like "under 0.5 seconds gets a damage penalty for not drawing the bow fully" 

The progression could be like every 0.1 Seconds is 10% with a Bonnus at 0.5 sec steps. And some base damage percent to start off with

Example:

Start at click 30% / every 0.1 seconds +10% / every 0.5 seconds a small threshold bonus like additional +10%

So 0.5 secs would be 80% / 1 sec would be 140% / 1.5 seconds = 200% / 2 sec = 260% / 2.5 = 320% / 3 = 380%

The cap would be the Aimed Shot trigger at 3 or 4 seconds for another bonus (could make the 3 sec max draw 400% instead 380% for a 30% Bonus instead of 10%)

I just pulled that numbers out of a hat, idk how the damage scales and what the balance is aiming for. But such a not so steep exponential curve shouldn't be hard to do if you know what the numbers should look like. 

Just get rid of "clunky combo shooting" 

Or you could, to make it more action combaty, instead of fully stationary give the Archer a 50% reduced movement speed while drawing the bow... Maybe increasing in severity in conjunction with the drawing progress bcs if you fully draw a strong bow you won't be able to move. There could have been even 2 classes of bows, like Warbows (heavy stationary) and Skirmish Bows (more mobile weaker - like horse archers used) 

 

Edited by Syracus
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U have 60+ m range - u have CC from range - U have the easiest hitbox in the game.  

With the removal of heavy weapons u also have a combo that is so strong whem combining bow and quiver its ridiciloiusly strong

Please stop

Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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3 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

U have 60+ m range - u have CC from range - U have the easiest hitbox in the game.  

With the removal of heavy weapons u also have a combo that is so strong whem combining bow and quiver its ridiciloiusly strong

Please stop

Mate, I don't want to increase the power per se. I just want to advocate a switch from combo shooting to stand and load up. Like move , charge x seconds, shoot, repeat. 

Damage numbers can be tweaked accordingly. U can easily make it so that it is a choice, stay mobile with like 50% damage and play for attrition or go for 100% damage but bind yourself for 1-4 seconds between movement. 

That would lead to Archers getting an advantage if not pressured. 

Also, it should be possible for a ranged Dps to be able to buy some time in emergency situations @cc but kiting indefinitely without effort should not be the goal IMHO. 

Love you Soul :x

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On 6/14/2021 at 7:54 PM, Syracus said:

 

That would lead to Archers getting an advantage if not pressured. 

 

Wont be any pressure on the Archer.

Start at 50+ m away getting wrecked by the archer.
As you get closer using all your distance closers to make it fast - just to see the archer Disengage.
Still getting wrecked by the archer.
You keep running.. only to find them Dodging away (Wood Elf)... 
Crap you're still getting wrecked... so you hold down your sprint button.
Rangers uses Rapid Fire for an Auto Crit .. get a free Dodge and ... well Dodges again.
At which time their Disengage is up again.. and you just keep running...

I mean come on.. what pressure.

Good archers can so easily keep you at 30+ m with thus also a huge damage buff from All Clear if they took it.

Well even if they took Arcane Archer they will hit u from 85m ... 

I don't see it happening.



 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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1 hour ago, Soulreaver said:

Arcane Archer.  85m.

 

no the ranged distance bonus Cap CAp is 50, with the base bow at 15, this gives a total range of 65 as the most, also if any of the bows was going to increase it, it would be sharpshooter with a compound, spellbound from arcane give bow charge speed

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On 6/16/2021 at 9:41 PM, Soulreaver said:

Wont be any pressure on the Archer.

Start at 50+ m away getting wrecked by the archer.
As you get closer using all your distance closers to make it fast - just to see the archer Disengage.
Still getting wrecked by the archer.
You keep running.. only to find them Dodging away (Wood Elf)... 
Crap you're still getting wrecked... so you hold down your sprint button.
Rangers uses Rapid Fire for an Auto Crit .. get a free Dodge and ... well Dodges again.
At which time their Disengage is up again.. and you just keep running...

I mean come on.. what pressure.

Good archers can so easily keep you at 30+ m with thus also a huge damage buff from All Clear if they took it.

Well even if they took Arcane Archer they will hit u from 85m ... 

I don't see it happening.



 

But if he hast to kite and dodge he can't charge the shot no? 

I mean there should just be an appropriate damage scaling. If he hast to shoot fast between movement he should do only a fraction of the damage. 

I mean I get what you are saying and you are probably right if this is not factored in. I didn't know for example that Archers have so much mobility. I can't estimate how much time you need to reach the Archer in the first place aka how much time he has to charge up. 

All I want to say is, that there can be achieved a decent game play around movement and max damage balance. But as you pointed out there are synergies that should be taken into account. You could for example make the curve of timecharged/damage more steap so that you have really small windows for movement and less leeway if you want to optimize for damage. 

Bug that's just IMHO anyways ^^

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8 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

Arcane Archer.  85m.

 

it is 65meters due to cap on range bonus stat, Also its very rare to have 65m range that isnt easily obstructed via rocks and trees 😛 so there not a whole lot of time where your actually firing at that distance 😛

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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No, he is right, Arcane Arrow is currently giving 85m range, I was hoping no one else noticed =). I would expect it to get fixed however as its clearly a bug.

unknown.png

 

Edited by Grivyn
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7 hours ago, Grivyn said:

No, he is right, Arcane Arrow is currently giving 85m range, I was hoping no one else noticed =). I would expect it to get fixed however as its clearly a bug.

unknown.png

 

The skill it self is pretty terrible if it just on that one, elemental armor break doesnt help archer cause they do less dmg with eelemental quivers anyway, not to mention u better off just taking fairies fire talents for the armor break and use physical quivers so u get the 10% dmg bonus from archer capstone.
You only get 56m with recurve and spellbound bows and like 65m or something with the high tension bow.

This is a mistake on the range with that skill im fairly certain. they put the range as 35m base (which is ur standard aoe range and skill that dont get modified by range however the box is also ticked for range modifier so it gets the +50 range bonus which brings it up to 85m.
So pretty much they miss typed the base range from 15 which all archer abilites are that can be modified by range modified and it spose to be ranged modified or its not suppose to be range modified and only spose to have 35m range.
 

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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its always had the same range as your left click, but yes I believe you are correct in that its base range has been set wrong at 35m instead of the normal 15m ranger base.

 

Elken can get to 61m with spellbow btw.

Edited by Grivyn
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