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I have spent the last 2 hours running from empty fort to empty fort. I want to poke my eyes out.

 

What if forts only produced mats during the hour they are live?

Have them produce a days worth of mats, 5 minutes at a time during the siege window.

If you want those mats, you stay there. 

If you really want those mats, you fight for respawns in that zone as well.

Want to protect what you looted in the last 10 minutes? Run a few guys to a world bank.

If you want more than 1 fort, you split up your forces.

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Edit to give a better idea of what I see.

Let me flesh this out a bit more.

Right now forts are all or nothing. If you do not win the last fight in the last 5 minutes of the siege window, you get nothing.

The first 55 minutes of each siege window mean nothing.

You are encouraged to have all your bros in 1 place to increase the odds you get anything.

A typical fort siege window consists taking as many people as you have running from fort to fort in the first 55 minutes, claiming it unopposed, and then running on to the next one.

The last 5 minutes are either

1. Unopposed and you don't get any fights.

2. You face a force twice your numbers, get nothing and don't get any fun fights.

3. You face a force half your numbers, win the fort, and don't get any fun fights.

4. You face a force roughly your numbers and get a fun fight.

So we have 55 minutes of literally nothing and then 5 minutes that only sometimes results in any fun.

 

How I see things playing out if my suggestion was implemented, with a days worth of resources spawning over the course of an hour every 5 minutes.

1. It would take some time to settle out, but eventually an 'optimal' number of people will be figured out to try each fort and have a shot at it. People might send 40 to 1 fort at first but eventually will realize that they need much much less than that to hold a fort for some amount of time. Because now, it is not all or nothing. You are not all in on one fort. If you hold a fort for 15 minutes, you actually get 25% of that days worth of mats. If you only hold it for 5 minutes, you still get something.

2. We will start showing up to forts BEFORE the window, because remember, there is a reason to be there at the start now.

3. We will try to hold respawns in the zone if we expect good fights.

4. The larger forces will start to spread out, they get a better chance at more loot, and a better chance at good fights.

5. The smaller forces will have a chance to compete vs the larger split forces. They have reason to try, because again, they do not need to win the last giant battle. Just hold a fort for a small amount of time.

6. Zone dynamics come into play. Let's say you are sitting unopposed at a fort. Do you split up and try for more? Do you send a few people off to secure respawns? Do you send a few guys to the bank to secure what you got over the last 10 minutes before enemies come to fight you? Do you try to run some of the siege pigs that spawned while you wait for a fight? Do you send a scout to another fort?

Edited by Yoink

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2 hours ago, coolster50 said:

5 minutes seems excessive, but yes. Forts should only spawn loot during or directly after their siege windows. NOT during non-siege hours

I still think if the resource spawn how it is now they should make it spawn every hour and guards not be invulnerable and chest lootable by anyone. (Keep guards somewhat stronger so u need a small group to kill them to get to the chest (Cant loot chest while guards are alive) this way there pvp content every hour potentially for fort loots all at once, this also makes it harder for zerg guilds to keep the resource incoming in because they would have to split there forces up to each fort they own to defend it to get the loot and allow for smaller clan to potentially pillage forts resources each hour. all in all it would add more pvp content outside of siege window throughout the night. aswell as potentially taking away some power from zerg guild who can easily claim them compared to smaller guilds who wil have a hard time actually capturing the forts.

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, coolster50 said:

5 minutes seems excessive, but yes. Forts should only spawn loot during or directly after their siege windows. NOT during non-siege hours

Excessive how? Right now they spawn mats 24 times a day, this would be the same total amount just over 12 spawns. Would also make fighting for it mid window worth it

Edited by Yoink

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Posted (edited)

Let me flesh this out a bit more.

Right now forts are all or nothing. If you do not win the last fight in the last 5 minutes of the siege window, you get nothing.

The first 55 minutes of each siege window mean nothing.

You are encouraged to have all your bros in 1 place to increase the odds you get anything.

A typical fort siege window consists taking as many people as you have running from fort to fort in the first 55 minutes, claiming it unopposed, and then running on to the next one.

The last 5 minutes are either

1. Unopposed and you don't get any fights.

2. You face a force twice your numbers, get nothing and don't get any fun fights.

3. You face a force half your numbers, win the fort, and don't get any fun fights.

4. You face a force roughly your numbers and get a fun fight.

So we have 55 minutes of literally nothing and then 5 minutes that only sometimes results in any fun.

 

How I see things playing out if my suggestion was implemented, with a days worth of resources spawning over the course of an hour every 5 minutes.

1. It would take some time to settle out, but eventually an 'optimal' number of people will be figured out to try each fort and have a shot at it. People might send 40 to 1 fort at first but eventually will realize that they need much much less than that to hold a fort for some amount of time. Because now, it is not all or nothing. You are not all in on one fort. If you hold a fort for 15 minutes, you actually get 25% of that days worth of mats. If you only hold it for 5 minutes, you still get something.

2. We will start showing up to forts BEFORE the window, because remember, there is a reason to be there at the start now.

3. We will try to hold respawns in the zone if we expect good fights.

4. The larger forces will start to spread out, they get a better chance at more loot, and a better chance at good fights.

5. The smaller forces will have a chance to compete vs the larger split forces. They have reason to try, because again, they do not need to win the last giant battle. Just hold a fort for a small amount of time.

6. Zone dynamics come into play. Let's say you are sitting unopposed at a fort. Do you split up and try for more? Do you send a few people off to secure respawns? Do you send a few guys to the bank to secure what you got over the last 10 minutes before enemies come to fight you? Do you try to run some of the siege pigs that spawned while you wait for a fight? Do you send a scout to another fort?

Edited by Yoink

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I actually hope that forts get put into the mix for the handshake siege model. 

My personal preference would be that declaring a siege be done against a guild and ALL protected assets they hold become exposed at the same time.

Followed by a mechanic that allows them to close any exposed asset one at a time, similar to how the bane trees work. 

E.G. if the ownership circle decayed automatically as time progressed with nobody present, all the way to neutral (and back on the schedule if they ended this way) at about 15 minutes, BUT once you pushed it to 100% the exposure ended, then this whole whack a mole fort grabbing would be far more strategic, AND force teams to manage splitting up to defend. 

Since we now have the ability to bind to keeps, far more strategy in terms of going out and falling back while multiple assets are vulnerable, trying to close each ones exposure, is possible.  

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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I agree with @Yoink, there is absolutely no reason to log in for the full siege window. If I feel like logging in at all (I have a very heavy workload right now, so it's a non-decision, I work not play) it will be for the very short period of time when I might be able to see a siege, which is why I play this game, I enjoy large group conflict and right now this game does not deliver. If Yoinks changes were implemented it would solve a whole pile of issues one of the big ones being it will make controlling a zone and holding keeps worth it, it will make fighting for keeps worth it, even if you can only hold it for a couple resource ticks you can grab something. I would say even give the chest in keeps a higher chance of dropping legendary resources and the special tools you need for additives etc.

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Doing a double spawn every 5 mins during the fort timer seems like a good idea.

I would love for there to be another reason to be last though and benefit until the next day.

Even if the benefit is just a +1 Plentiful: X or +10% Ethereal dust pedestal

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Instead of packpigs we pied piper across the map we should have little packs carry like in ArcheAge, or be able to ride the packpig and steer them. Get that stuff to a refinery.

For a time-window thing like the forts, have the chest be some sort of "gusher" mechanic so that during the siege window (like you suggested Yoink) every 5 minutes or so it spits out a bunch of goodies or trade packs. But you have to carry the pack to bank or something. If you disconnect from the game the pack falls on the ground. No recalling while wearing a pack.

Get the trade pack to special vendor in temple or free city, or refinery, somewhere, to trade it in for the real goods.

Otherwise, if people can just loot they will pull their internet cable and secure the stuff till they log back in an hour later or something.

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29 minutes ago, DocTrine said:

Instead of packpigs we pied piper across the map we should have little packs carry like in ArcheAge, or be able to ride the packpig and steer them. Get that stuff to a refinery.

For a time-window thing like the forts, have the chest be some sort of "gusher" mechanic so that during the siege window (like you suggested Yoink) every 5 minutes or so it spits out a bunch of goodies or trade packs. But you have to carry the pack to bank or something. If you disconnect from the game the pack falls on the ground. No recalling while wearing a pack.

Get the trade pack to special vendor in temple or free city, or refinery, somewhere, to trade it in for the real goods.

Otherwise, if people can just loot they will pull their internet cable and secure the stuff till they log back in an hour later or something.

pack and boat runs were my fav part of playing AA.

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10 hours ago, Yoink said:

Excessive how? Right now they spawn mats 24 times a day, this would be the same total amount just over 12 spawns. Would also make fighting for it mid window worth it

12 spawns in an hour per fort just seems like a lot to me. Spawns every 10 or 15 minutes sounds more reasonable, IMO. Mid-window fights should still happen with those intervals

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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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9 minutes ago, coolster50 said:

12 spawns in an hour per fort just seems like a lot to me. Spawns every 10 or 15 minutes sounds more reasonable, IMO. Mid-window fights should still happen with those intervals

What would the downsides be of spawns every 5 minutes versus 10 or 15?

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Going to the other end of the spectrum, remove windows from Forts completely, with spawns every 15 minutes, and increase the chance to get higher rarity the longer someone is able to hold it.

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33 minutes ago, Darine said:

Going to the other end of the spectrum, remove windows from Forts completely, with spawns every 15 minutes, and increase the chance to get higher rarity the longer someone is able to hold it.

I could see having 1 fort like this.

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28 minutes ago, Jah said:

What would the downsides be of spawns every 5 minutes versus 10 or 15?

You're having someone (likely multiple people) run to the nearest bank and back every 5 minutes. And playing running simulator is not that much more engaging than sitting on an uncontested fort.

There's also the balance of how many resources you get per interval. I don't know how many mats forts give per day, but maybe dividing the total by 12 would cause some guilds to not bother rather than attempt to contest a fort if they only have a shot at sniping the first interval

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2 minutes ago, coolster50 said:

You're having someone (likely multiple people) run to the nearest bank and back every 5 minutes. And playing running simulator is not that much more engaging than sitting on an uncontested fort.

There's also the balance of how many resources you get per interval. I don't know how many mats forts give per day, but maybe dividing the total by 12 would cause some guilds to not bother rather than attempt to contest a fort if they only have a shot at sniping the first interval

So you think smaller guilds (and even bigger guilds) won't have intercept/roam teams out trying to grab anything they can? I would hazard to say running resources would be as much action as trying to hold the fort. The idea certainly adds another layer to game play at least during siege times.

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14 minutes ago, Ajokoira said:

So you think smaller guilds (and even bigger guilds) won't have intercept/roam teams out trying to grab anything they can? I would hazard to say running resources would be as much action as trying to hold the fort. The idea certainly adds another layer to game play at least during siege times.

I'm sure they will, but that's dependent on how contested the zone is. If I think about how this plays with the current population, I see some guilds trying to run interception and then stop trying after not having many successful intercepts and getting a higher return from winning forts. The same thing happened with caravans. At the beginning, there were many attempts to stop caravan runners, and now hardly anyone does it

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14 hours ago, coolster50 said:

I'm sure they will, but that's dependent on how contested the zone is. If I think about how this plays with the current population, I see some guilds trying to run interception and then stop trying after not having many successful intercepts and getting a higher return from winning forts. The same thing happened with caravans. At the beginning, there were many attempts to stop caravan runners, and now hardly anyone does it

It would only work for so long until inevitably the defenders call more forces to take down the small attacking guild. At that point they'd just quit because they don't have the numbers. People can't help themselves, they'd rather win at all costs but in the process end up killing content and shooting themselves in the foot. You'd need something to prevent people from being able to do that too easily. If you have several forts spread out over 3 zones that all go active at the same time with incentive to actually keep them all, it might work a bit better forcing them to make hard choices and spread out over larger areas.

Edited by Leiloni
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