Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Game Direction - Losing Crowfall as an MMORPG Throne War


Recommended Posts

Crowfall is quickly moving away from an RPG, from an MMO, and from a throne war simulator and morphing into a MOBA (yes, even the "MMO" side of it).  I'm going to start by highlighting how this occurring, why this is a problem, and then how it can be fixed.  I make this post as a strong urge to reconsider some of the game direction philosophies and mechanics changes that have happened over the past many months.  

  • Crowfall is no longer an RPGThere is no progression.  The "Easy come easy go" mantra that has ruined the game has made the crafting system near worthless, and 100% not worth the time investment.  On day 1 of the dregs campaign, you can run to a wartribe and pick up epic (purple) gear with top end damage and stats that a crafter will be lucky to make within a month of torturous grinding (by the whole guild) and leveling up.  The crafter needs to have legendary disc and legendary belt to have a hope in making a weapon better than what can be picked up on day 1.  In MOBAs, you can jump in at the same level as everyone else and compete just the same as everyone else.  The difference is, in MOBAs the only thing that really matters is player skill and team coordination.  Crowfall does not have a robust enough combat system (especially at larger scale) to where player skill really comes into play (at least to the extend of a MOBA).  So what you end up with is 2 blobs of people going at each other with practically the same skills and abilities, but the lack importance of player skill so it turns into (in a lot of cases) who has more numbers.  This is NOT working!
  • Crowfall is no longer an MMO: There is no sense of progression.  People play MMOs for different reasons, but they are almost always played to win...something.  In WoW, you have end game raids to get better gear and progress your character.  This works the same is most other MMOs.  When winning a campaign, you should be rewarded for doing so.  You should be getting items that otherwise are not attainable.  There is none of that in CF (or almost none if you consider sparkly mining tools that let you knock down a motherlode in 4 swings instead of 5?).  In most cases, the time and resources the guild puts into the campaign is far more than the victory rewards we get, all of which can just be farmed in less amount of time instead of trying to win.  We've lost what an MMO is about unless we're working towards something.
  • Crowfall is no longer a Throne War Simulator:   There is no victory.  "Easy come easy go" has ruined the sense of ownership, the sense of controlling territory, and the sense of securing your borders.  There is very little incentive for me to own a fort in my zone because it doesn't really do anything for me if I own that fort or a fort on the other side of the map.  It's easy enough for me to get anywhere so why bother owning the single ingot fort in my zone if there's a double timber in the next zone over?  The forts and outposts don't really provide any benefit or hindrance to the people who have nearby keeps so who cares who owns them?  Why bother with forts and outposts when I can just claim and rank a castle with the same amount of resources as any other keep and get 2.5x the points of other keeps immediately?  Where's the challenge when I can just import hundreds of stacks of building materials and level my town up within a few hours of claiming it?

The Solutions:

  • Wartribe Loot (fixing the RPG):
    • Reduce wartribe top end damage and stats to max out at blue quality, and have appropriate damage values to what a blue vesseled crafter would have with a blue crafting rune and a blue belt on average
    • Reduce wartribe armor to max out at blue quality, and adjust armor values and stats to reflect what a blue vesseled crafter would have with a blue crafting rune and a blue belt
    • Rationale - Crafting should mean something, and crafting should be able to compete with wartribe gear at lower end crafting levels.  Currently the system requires Leg Disc/Leg Belt to have any hope in being comparable, and even then you have to hope for good rolls.
  • Campaign Rewards (fixing the MMO):
    • Campaign rewards should include "end game" additives that can only be acquired for winning conquest or divine favor.  These additives can be like hunger shards, but should significantly improve armor, weapons, jewelry, potions, or vessels.
    • Campaign rewards should include cosmetic upgrades - people love their sparkly things.  Campaign rewards should include weapon/armor additives that are unique to the campaign and are visually appealing.  For example, these additives would allow your sword to glow red with fire or blue with ice.  These cosmetic rewards should only be available for winning conquest or divine favor.
    • Campaign rewards should include skins for not only weapons, but mounts, and maybe even siege equipment.
    • Rationale - If "uncle bob" is holding you back from making meaningful rewards, you are truly misguided.  We need to make a game that rewards logistics, planning, training, skill, hard work, and effort.  People like shiny things, give the people what they want.
  • Meaningful Assets (fixing the Throne War Simulator): 
    • Forts and outposts should mean something.  We are moving in the right direction by giving them loot chests, but they need to affect the outcome of the game.  Have the points earned by owning the asset work towards a pool that increases the defenses of your keeps.  At different tiers, you could have the buffs give you access to more wards, increase the health of walls and buildings, increase the power of the guards, etc.  
    • Have these assets freeze in the zone when a siege starts, so that attackers are required to "prep" for the siege by trying to take forts and outposts ahead of time.
    • Rationale - Owning an asset should mean something and the owners should have ownership over their land.  Give them a reason to keep the forts in their zone or to fend off people trying to take outposts.

Conclusion: 

The original vision has gone completely off the rails this past year, because loud voices want to turn this game into a MOBA that they can pop into any time and be just as competitive as the people that spent the last year working towards something.  That is NOT what an MMORPG is.  This is NOT an MMORPG Thronewar anymore, and if we don't start to right the ship, people's interest will quickly wane after launch, just as so many MOBAs and "MMOs" before it.

 

(P.S. This is not an exhaustive list of what needs to be changed.  The point of this post was to bring to light the dangerous path we are on if we continue going down this road.)

qMEsHyg.png

www.winterblades.net

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with a lot of this, so I'm only going to comment on "Easy come, easy go".

"Easy come, easy go" has lost it's original meaning. It is meant to apply to the process of acquiring stuff to be viable (and consequently losing it). We have departed from that applying to the player and their own agency/actions and applying it purely to systems designed to keep a new player logged in.

The wartribe loot system at it's core is a good idea, I've agreed with it since it came out. The issue is that it has basically overtaken the entire economy in order to keep a fresh player competitive with a guild of 50~ putting all of their time into improving their logistics. You should be able to login and equip some temporary wartribe gear to get started in a campaign, but it shouldn't be the only thing you wear until the absolute late game in crafting. This causes all sorts of problems with the loop that you've mentioned.

A few things you didn't mention that are worth bringing up. Player vendors are currently stocking:

  1. Wartribe gear.
  2. Stuff you can't get out of wartribes like vessels, quivers, toxins etc.
  3. Extras from their massive crafting grind in an attempt to overcome the Wartribe gear hurdle

This causes problems, because it basically creates two states in crafting logistics. Wartribe gear (months even with active grinding) and then Legendary/Legendary disc + belt + potentially vessel and gear. Otherwise it isn't worth it to craft gear.

---

It is very important to keep barriers of entry low. Hungerdome is a great mode to introduce players to what the MMO can feel like. Wartribe gear is a great way to get someone equipped without needing to bash rocks. We still need to have something to engage people who want to push past the surface level of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Campaign worlds are going to be where you farm discs and materials to make vessels for an advantage in HungerDome. 

There are only 2 things you can progress in Crowfall.

Your Vessel/Discs and Your crafting/harvesting proficiency.

The only thing that really matters here though is your Vessel/Discs for the HungerDome advantage. This is the because combat in Crowfall is too numbers sensitive. The fights just are not fun, win or lose.

Small scale is fun. It is the only place where you can actually do a fun or off meta build, where your character and skill and build matter. But, if that is the fix you want, you go to HungerDome because you will actually get fights there. Small scale pvp in campaigns only consists of solo characters built to escape an engagement if they can not win vs people farming wartribes. I'm not knocking on these builds, they are fun and do what they do well, its just that this is the only small scale available.

So, since we can not bring armor or weapons into HungerDome, we can throw out almost all of the crafting professions as actually mattering. So who cares about progressing those. And that is fine, I am not saying we should be able to bring crafted weapons/armor into HungerDome, just pointing out that HungerDome does nothing to make most crafting professions worthwhile. With most crafting not worthwhile, most harvesting loses meaning as well. This leaves the only form of advancement your vessel/discs.

 

I have no reason to enter a campaign other than to progress my vessel for HungerDome. I don't care about winning the campaign. Playing to win a campaign sucks. It is not fun and the rewards are pointless. Lets look at the PvP content in Crowfall.

Solo Ganking - I guess this is fine if that is your thing. Some people are into one sided fights or punching down. That is basically what ganking is.

Outposts- You can sometimes get fights for these. This might actually be the best content in dregs, when the stars align and it actually happens. The scoring timer on outposts being 1 hour makes them worthless outside of the last 15m of the hour, and then you do not want to fight people, you want to cap and move as fast as you can. The chests in the outposts are mostly pointless when you can go to any WarTribe camp and get 10x the amount of stuff with 10x less amount of effort.

Forts- Worst PvP content in the game, hands down. Again, only the last 5 minutes of the window matters and there are only 4 outcomes to fort fights.

After running around the world capping forts no real reason other than you hope someone else forgets to come after you for 55 minutes you hold up at 1 fort. You are here with your entire force, because you are not incentivized to split up, and if you lose, you get nothing for the entire hour of 'playing' Crowfall.

1. No one shows up to contest you. NOT FUN.

2. Someone shows up and you outnumber them and easily win. NOT FUN.

3. Someone shows up and they outnumber you and easily beats you. NOT FUN.

4. Someone shows up, numbers are relatively close, and you get a good fight. FUN. (also, this is the magical unicorn of fort fights. I would say I experience this maybe ONCE every 2 full campaigns. 

Sieges - Almost as boring as forts when defending. Rallying up your guildies because you MIGHT have a fight and having no one show up really sucks, and makes it less likely that those guys will play the game next time.

 

aeei5jG.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think in addition to what's been said, free city building will help a lot in campaign progression. It shouldnt take a few hours to build a keep because you import a seed and building mats. It should take a long time to get your keep up, sieges need to last longer. Preventing imported seeds, gold, building mats can help with this. Its why 0 import campaigns are really fun, you gotta farm the gold for the seed, deeds and thrall workers (assuming you dont exploit it which has been fixed). Neutral forts should not accumulate resources. If free city building doesnt ever come, then claiming a keep should only be possible during a siege not any time. make us fight for the castle, don't make it so whoever runs there first gets it, same with keeps. You want to claim a keep/castle? take the wards and trees down and claim it, even if its neutral.

I'm ok with the numbers thing to be honest, it brings politics more into play. Don't look at it now that there's like a handful of large guilds, assuming more guilds come it'll get more interesting.

Game has a lot of potential, it's just not there yet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well the post is pretty much how I feel now about this game. Frankly, I am only waiting for hunger dome to come out because the MMOrpg part of the campaign have been totally destroyed since a year or so with mob drops, crafting and gathering obsolescence (for most professions) passive removal and territory control not being interesting on the long term.

This game still has good potential to be a short term objective brawling game and I think it will be fun to throw 60 players in the pit for a fast and intense PvP experience. 

The campaign? It doesn't feel like a long term thing and other hardcore MMOrpg PvP games are doing that part far better. Right now, crowfall doesn't feel like an MMORPGs and more like a big moba (which is still ok). I could see short weekly campaigns being fun (like a moba lasting a week) but not a throne war simulation for now. This might change in the future (I hope) when they reach mid term and long term objectives.

I still hope they can bring specialization of zones in to give another purpose to own territory than simply getting points. More player customization, territory control, drops of materials on mobs (with specialized material drops, God's objectives etc.) and long term progression is needed to change this game from a brawler/MMOmoba to an actual MMOrpg.

This will take years at best and I think this is why they are progressively switching the focus of the game to a moba oriented experience. We will see!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, damebix said:

 


"Crowfall is no longer an RPG:  There is no progression.  The "Easy come easy go" mantra that has ruined the game has made the crafting system near worthless, and 100% not worth the time investment.  On day 1 of the dregs campaign, you can run to a wartribe and pick up epic (purple) gear with top end damage and stats that a crafter will be lucky to make within a month of torturous grinding (by the whole guild) and leveling up.  The crafter needs to have legendary disc and legendary belt to have a hope in making a weapon better than what can be picked up on day 1."

I disagree. With a green disc and blue belt (full green gear/vessel/jewelry) you can make 90 damage greens that are on par with the tribe stuff. (It might have a little less armor pen.) Legi disc and legi belt you can make weapons that are miles ahead of the tribe gear. For armor, it was Purple disc blue belt before you can beat tribe armor/stat values. Crafting needs love but it's not as miserable as you put it here. Your solutions listed for this topic, lowering Tribe damage would be a quick/easy fix. Another fix would be to add an offensive stat to the gloves/helm and boots (like chest pieces).

 

"Crowfall is no longer an MMO: There is no sense of progression.  People play MMOs for different reasons, but they are almost always played to win...something.  In WoW, you have end game raids to get better gear and progress your character.  This works the same is most other MMOs.  When winning a campaign, you should be rewarded for doing so."

I feel that with every campaign my guild gets stronger and my personal characters get stronger. Most of our guys farm casually, or if we're making a push and we don't keep large stockpiles of backed up materials. The campaign rewards help us. I do agree that there needs to be something more. Maybe give guilds levels, only way to level the guild is to win campaigns. You get a gold star per campaign, 3 wins and you level up. Guilds could have "buffs" based on what level they are. Level 1 Guild -10% Tool reduction, Level 2 Guild - 10% Reduced durability loss while in combat. Your recommendations were good as well but I think having a long term plan for Guilds to level up -would be fantastic.

 

"Crowfall is no longer a Throne War Simulator:   There is no victory.  Where's the challenge when I can just import hundreds of stacks of building materials and level my town up within a few hours of claiming it?"

I feel victorious winning small battles or large wars. Hell we've even felt victory in some of the fights we've lost. You can't lose your thrill for battle! To your second point, embargo needs to get a pass, I know it's on the radar. I'm sure it's hard to implement "no imports on building materials" when the campaigns are 5 days long. I wouldn't mind ripping the band aid off, disallowing building materials to be imported and defending a shell of a keep for a few attacks. Sounds like fun.

 

"Forts and outposts should mean something.  We are moving in the right direction by giving them loot chests, but they need to affect the outcome of the game.  Have the points earned by owning the asset work towards a pool that increases the defenses of your keeps."

This is a great idea. Another idea would be to have the fort trigger a zone-wide buff for the owning guild/alliance. +10% Gold Gains, -10% Dura loss in Combat, +10% Movement speed. This would make the whole zone feel interactive and make forts worth owning.

 

 

"The original vision has gone completely off the rails this past year, because loud voices want to turn this game into a MOBA that they can pop into any time and be just as competitive as the people that spent the last year working towards something.  That is NOT what an MMORPG is.  This is NOT an MMORPG Thronewar anymore, and if we don't start to right the ship, people's interest will quickly wane after launch, just as so many MOBAs and "MMOs" before it."

Just because Final Fantasy VII had Chocobo racing and it was epic, doesn't make a it a racing game. We can have our cake and eat it too. As long as the main game, the Throne War, doesn't suck/suffer I think ACE can manage both game modes. I feel like the MMOBA part of the game is going to require way less effort/upkeep then the main game.

 

This is a great discussion. I don't disagree with the OP, more or less just want to add to it and give my 2 cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wartribe gear needs to be on level of rather early crafted gear, green grafted gear with green discs should be on par with wartribe gear imo. however u can keep wartribe ghear relevant by allow salvaging them for components like hunger shards that have 1 of the stats on the weapon or armor u salvage this way you can then use said item for crafting and get the stats u normally cant get like bonus dmg to high HP targets, power effiency, weapon dmg and so on. those items with good stats will be highly sorted after and hence keeps the content relevant thoughtout the game

Atm only purple crafted gear with lego/purple disc is around the same level as wartribe gear (This is to do with 1 stats on ingots aswell on blue and green crafts) where WT still gets 2 stats at high rolls which isnt dooable as a crafter anymore. WT gear needs to be a stepping stone just gto get you through till crafters start selling things, purple resources are to hard to aquire aswell to maintain gear in your guild letalon having an over flow for selling for the economy.

Throne war simulators is a strategy game and all strategy game have territory where u have 1 main city and you expand out from it when u can capture anything in the world u loose that you should be having dispute with neightbouring alliances/guilds due to close proximity not going all over the map to capture everything. In kickstart they used a boardgame called risk as there example which core concept is you can only attack places you boarder which is what we need and wont get til after release it seems when they hit mid term goal of parcel to parcel interactions imo this system is a core system that MUST be finished and working before you even consider releasing.

Hungerdome is a mistake releasing it atm, you should have your core game completed with territory system before you release BG like hunger dome this will help draw people from other game styles to CF and they dip into the actually game and might like it however if it incomplete you will not realy get that. So yeah right now hunger dome is a mistake till you get the game play working properly with its proper loops and territory systems.

The biggest problem your game is facing is large scale fight are terribly boring to play (We move to Euro server for more small scale fight that were fun) The only time we have had a fun seige in CF was when Gaea statue was a thing and those 2 seiges were the most fun ive had in large scale and which was then suddenly remove the following campaign due i feel because it threw a spanner in the works of what everyone knew which was blob vs blob (They lost first seige cause they wernt prepared and they won the 2nd one because they were which is a good thing (Didnt help some alliance members at the time refused to be in the city tile cause for what ever reason not standing next to somone was hard) adapt and overcome is a good thing.

Right now we have no stratergy we can do that makes the blob ineffective simply cause u cant kill anyone in there msot times cause they run behind people and use them as shield when half hp and get healed up effectively making combat combat which blob is bigger and can push the other blob araound there no tactice involved you flank because it not that affective (Unless you surround them however if u split ur forces the bigger blob just rushes smaller blob and squish it. Aoe are ineffective to disperse them because they hit 5 random targets max and it often high HP targets where heals prioritise lower HP targets in most cases. soooo yeah there no counter play and i relay hope you remove aoe cap and make them more effective to disperse blob warfare which is a boring play style that too effective.
Crowfall strong point is 1-10 player on each side each any more than that it becomes boring (some 3 way blob action is entertaining but thats somewhat rarer thing to happen.


Another thing Fort chests should be lootable by anyone every hour all of the forts go live at once (You cant capture them however u can pillage the chests) This creates content constantly for pvp and having all the forts chests go at once means the zergs will want to split there forces to maximise there returns on forts this also means forts closer to where they live will be mainly defended not ones across the map due to ease of access. this also means we should get more small scale pvp. Capturing forts will still grant score for conquest however the resources they spawn each rotation can be pillages and must be defended if you want them so there not a passive resource gain that is 100% safe. 

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Galahorn said:

Well the post is pretty much how I feel now about this game. Frankly, I am only waiting for hunger dome to come out because the MMOrpg part of the campaign have been totally destroyed since a year or so with mob drops, crafting and gathering obsolescence (for most professions) passive removal and territory control not being interesting on the long term.

This game still has good potential to be a short term objective brawling game and I think it will be fun to throw 60 players in the pit for a fast and intense PvP experience. 

The campaign? It doesn't feel like a long term thing and other hardcore MMOrpg PvP games are doing that part far better. Right now, crowfall doesn't feel like an MMORPGs and more like a big moba (which is still ok). I could see short weekly campaigns being fun (like a moba lasting a week) but not a throne war simulation for now. This might change in the future (I hope) when they reach mid term and long term objectives.

I still hope they can bring specialization of zones in to give another purpose to own territory than simply getting points. More player customization, territory control, drops of materials on mobs (with specialized material drops, God's objectives etc.) and long term progression is needed to change this game from a brawler/MMOmoba to an actual MMOrpg.

This will take years at best and I think this is why they are progressively switching the focus of the game to a moba oriented experience. We will see!

there currently a huge market for a good pvp MMO cause our options are trash and were desperate as players, however MOBA have a huge amount of good options sooo realy if they want to maximise there player base they realy want to hit the nail on the head for the MMO part however i think they will screw it up going by the there development cycle there just spamming the easy thing to do on there to do list and adding thing as distraction to buy there time to get to the most important parts of the game and this is gonna screw them in the long game they might be ok for fiorst month or 2 but plasyer will fall off if the only thing worth doing is hunger dome over and over again. How things are going here i might be waiting for ashes of creation at this point cause i feel they will screw themself here due to overhead pressure by shareholders to just release it in the poorly made dergs state it might be in

 

Veeshan Midst of UXA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, veeshan said:

Hungerdome is a mistake releasing it atm, you should have your core game completed with territory system before you release BG like hunger dome this will help draw people from other game styles to CF and they dip into the actually game and might like it however if it incomplete you will not realy get that. So yeah right now hunger dome is a mistake till you get the game play working properly with its proper loops and territory systems.

I strongly agree with this.

*If* Crowfall is going to be a MOBA then so be it, but if it's going to be a progression MMO & throne war simulator, then HD is a distraction from that and will draw opinions contrary to that vision.

Edited by VaMei
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, veeshan said:

Wartribe gear needs to be on level of rather early crafted gear, green grafted gear with green discs should be on par with wartribe gear imo. however u can keep wartribe ghear relevant by allow salvaging them for components like hunger shards that have 1 of the stats on the weapon or armor u salvage this way you can then use said item for crafting and get the stats u normally cant get like bonus dmg to high HP targets, power effiency, weapon dmg and so on. those items with good stats will be highly sorted after and hence keeps the content relevant thoughtout the game

I like this suggestion for repurposing wartribe gear and utilizing those stats that can't be crafted.

qMEsHyg.png

www.winterblades.net

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, damebix said:

I like this suggestion for repurposing wartribe gear and utilizing those stats that can't be crafted.

the key to MMO is to keep thing relevant, mob dropped gear should be solely for using early on while crafter get online and be phased out however maintain purpose via the salvage system so people farm them.
On thing i like bout ashes is there approach here they saw that and all low end crafted stuff is needed to make the next step aswell. Crowfall need a system similiar to keep everything relevant and i think thats a great way to keep mob dropped gear useful after the point that should be looking to move on to crafted.

Having crafted low quality gear like greens and blues better than mob dropped also then creates an economy where guild can craft useful items for player with excess low tiuer resources that are actually useful, cause right now green and even blue somewhat resource are only realy useful to grind disaplines you might aswell just remove those quality and just havbe white and then purple when it comes to crafting atm.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

also like to say imagine the current blue card with a territory system (Points based on camp you have captured at end of the season) if you can only capture territorys/camps adjacent to you ur gonna get big land rushes with neighbouring guilds rather than running all over the fricken map to get them. It be limini war with neightbing guild and that sounds amazing

Veeshan Midst of UXA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been screaming for awhile now that Crowfall is not a MMO. I keep hoping they will put out a static world GvG. Or as Jtodd called it the shadowbane ruleset. 

Then we have a reason to go to dregs win and bring that stuff back. You could see a guild that had nothing. Go to dregs build up and come back and win territory in the static world.

It would have to be large though so as to allow multiple guilds to own city's and areas. The campaigns should be the big game. But, there should be a area a guild can own that is static. The EK does not fill this role. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, damebix said:

Crowfall is quickly moving away from an RPG, from an MMO, and from a throne war simulator and morphing into a MOBA (yes, even the "MMO" side of it).  I'm going to start by highlighting how this occurring, why this is a problem, and then how it can be fixed.  I make this post as a strong urge to reconsider some of the game direction philosophies and mechanics changes that have happened over the past many months.  

  • Crowfall is no longer an RPGThere is no progression.  The "Easy come easy go" mantra that has ruined the game has made the crafting system near worthless, and 100% not worth the time investment.  On day 1 of the dregs campaign, you can run to a wartribe and pick up epic (purple) gear with top end damage and stats that a crafter will be lucky to make within a month of torturous grinding (by the whole guild) and leveling up.  The crafter needs to have legendary disc and legendary belt to have a hope in making a weapon better than what can be picked up on day 1.  In MOBAs, you can jump in at the same level as everyone else and compete just the same as everyone else.  The difference is, in MOBAs the only thing that really matters is player skill and team coordination.  Crowfall does not have a robust enough combat system (especially at larger scale) to where player skill really comes into play (at least to the extend of a MOBA).  So what you end up with is 2 blobs of people going at each other with practically the same skills and abilities, but the lack importance of player skill so it turns into (in a lot of cases) who has more numbers.  This is NOT working!
  • Crowfall is no longer an MMO: There is no sense of progression.  People play MMOs for different reasons, but they are almost always played to win...something.  In WoW, you have end game raids to get better gear and progress your character.  This works the same is most other MMOs.  When winning a campaign, you should be rewarded for doing so.  You should be getting items that otherwise are not attainable.  There is none of that in CF (or almost none if you consider sparkly mining tools that let you knock down a motherlode in 4 swings instead of 5?).  In most cases, the time and resources the guild puts into the campaign is far more than the victory rewards we get, all of which can just be farmed in less amount of time instead of trying to win.  We've lost what an MMO is about unless we're working towards something.
  • Crowfall is no longer a Throne War Simulator:   There is no victory.  "Easy come easy go" has ruined the sense of ownership, the sense of controlling territory, and the sense of securing your borders.  There is very little incentive for me to own a fort in my zone because it doesn't really do anything for me if I own that fort or a fort on the other side of the map.  It's easy enough for me to get anywhere so why bother owning the single ingot fort in my zone if there's a double timber in the next zone over?  The forts and outposts don't really provide any benefit or hindrance to the people who have nearby keeps so who cares who owns them?  Why bother with forts and outposts when I can just claim and rank a castle with the same amount of resources as any other keep and get 2.5x the points of other keeps immediately?  Where's the challenge when I can just import hundreds of stacks of building materials and level my town up within a few hours of claiming it?

The Solutions:

  • Wartribe Loot (fixing the RPG):
    • Reduce wartribe top end damage and stats to max out at blue quality, and have appropriate damage values to what a blue vesseled crafter would have with a blue crafting rune and a blue belt on average
    • Reduce wartribe armor to max out at blue quality, and adjust armor values and stats to reflect what a blue vesseled crafter would have with a blue crafting rune and a blue belt
    • Rationale - Crafting should mean something, and crafting should be able to compete with wartribe gear at lower end crafting levels.  Currently the system requires Leg Disc/Leg Belt to have any hope in being comparable, and even then you have to hope for good rolls.
  • Campaign Rewards (fixing the MMO):
    • Campaign rewards should include "end game" additives that can only be acquired for winning conquest or divine favor.  These additives can be like hunger shards, but should significantly improve armor, weapons, jewelry, potions, or vessels.
    • Campaign rewards should include cosmetic upgrades - people love their sparkly things.  Campaign rewards should include weapon/armor additives that are unique to the campaign and are visually appealing.  For example, these additives would allow your sword to glow red with fire or blue with ice.  These cosmetic rewards should only be available for winning conquest or divine favor.
    • Campaign rewards should include skins for not only weapons, but mounts, and maybe even siege equipment.
    • Rationale - If "uncle bob" is holding you back from making meaningful rewards, you are truly misguided.  We need to make a game that rewards logistics, planning, training, skill, hard work, and effort.  People like shiny things, give the people what they want.
  • Meaningful Assets (fixing the Throne War Simulator): 
    • Forts and outposts should mean something.  We are moving in the right direction by giving them loot chests, but they need to affect the outcome of the game.  Have the points earned by owning the asset work towards a pool that increases the defenses of your keeps.  At different tiers, you could have the buffs give you access to more wards, increase the health of walls and buildings, increase the power of the guards, etc.  
    • Have these assets freeze in the zone when a siege starts, so that attackers are required to "prep" for the siege by trying to take forts and outposts ahead of time.
    • Rationale - Owning an asset should mean something and the owners should have ownership over their land.  Give them a reason to keep the forts in their zone or to fend off people trying to take outposts.

Conclusion: 

The original vision has gone completely off the rails this past year, because loud voices want to turn this game into a MOBA that they can pop into any time and be just as competitive as the people that spent the last year working towards something.  That is NOT what an MMORPG is.  This is NOT an MMORPG Thronewar anymore, and if we don't start to right the ship, people's interest will quickly wane after launch, just as so many MOBAs and "MMOs" before it.

 

(P.S. This is not an exhaustive list of what needs to be changed.  The point of this post was to bring to light the dangerous path we are on if we continue going down this road.)

I agree. On all points, this would be a nice change from the MOBA slope we are currently sliding down. On the topic of forts, I suggested in a different thread make taking and holding outposts in the vicinity of a keep a requirement for taking said keep. My point here being, something has to change in order to make this game worth playing. 

Good post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think if they simply turned up the drop rate of discipline runes when crafting it might not be such a turn off.

i dont even like crafting on TEST and there everything is given to you...

 

i really thing there needs to be a geographical siege progression when you need to hold all the outposts  from your keep to the one you want to siege

 

Forts should be come guild owned outposts that serve the same purpose as keeps and give small guilds a home

www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...