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8 minutes ago, veeshan said:

I waste my time hitting tree for resources i cant make a profit on just to throw in the fire to gain disciplines for a gold belt, i waste my time crafting items i cant sell because mob drop gear is better, i would love to sell all these thing i craft but cant due to WT gear overshadowing it even though i spend thousands of hours harvesting and crafting to get a point where i can somewhat match WT gear. sooo yeah

That question was directed at Duffy as he shared some data about how his crafting compares to Wartribe gear that looked quite different to the data shared by people calling for nerfs.

But to respond to what you said: I'm not sure there will be much of a market for your offshoots unless you're one of the most skilled crafters in the game. Having a 100% player driven economy with crafting outcome based on crafter stats just funnels more resources to those already in the lead.

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Don't forget your pot pie, bon tippers, and Thrall buff also.  I get your point though, early crafting could use a bit of a buff

If watribe gear is nerfed that equates to a buff to early and end-game crafted gear, exacerbating the power gap between casual and hardcore players. That is a fundamentally different change to just bu

here the thing, right now there no economy when it comes to crafted good/gear there not worth selling because there worst than mob dropped until the point of purple gear which u cant get enough resour

17 minutes ago, Alot said:

It's really interesting to see additional data. Any idea why your experiences have been so different to those calling for nerfs to wartribe gear? 

Would have to compare crafting stats and what not to get an idea. I've seen a few others mentioning similar numbers to what we're seeing, but also again I havent seriously made any woodworking weapons besides a support power book for an inquisitor so I don't have good numbers to compare to drops yet, and our woodworker is only Legendary Disc/Blue belt atm, so it will be a bit before it's on part with my Legendary/Legendary smith. But we're making high 80s to low 90s damage 100+ support power 2handers atm for our paladins, which beats drops by a huge margin. Healing crafted weapons/shields pretty much out does drops even at common levels.

Our initial testing concluded that all Strength crafts should go Half-Giant and all others should go Guinecean, and in the latter case just swap the stat priority between Dex or Int as required. The hamsters get a bit of extra reduction with the 3rd jewelry slot (reduction is generic stat so you just make an off type ring). High elf can do the same with the extra kneck slot for Int based, but they arent as good at Dex class options. The other requirement is that they take all 4 stat bundles in the talent tree to maximize your crafting stats (and they have a class that prioritizes your experimentation stat in said bundles, champions for HG and Duelist for Hamsters), and you need to eventually be able to hit 250 in their experimentation point stat. We couldnt quite tell if races still had a stat affinity beyond their starting differences body parts wise, but we confirmed you could hit those 250 limits with half-giants and hamsters at the blue-epic vessel level. With 2 pieces of green crafting gear you are hitting the Experimentation cap, so improving the gear is just to boost assembly if needed for epic/legendary.

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Here a crafted blue bow btw with Orange disc and Purple belt 110 ass, 110 exp and 16.08 pips they range from 49-52 dmgish,.

I dont have a WT mob blue to compare with i tend to sell them but they tend to range from 45-50 dmg 

 
unknown.png



here purple aswell, ive seen purple mob drop bow creep up to 54 dmg aswell so this is a lower number dmg wise however piercing dmg bonus is nuts (Which is a stat we cant get via crafting)
unknown.pngunknown.png

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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2 minutes ago, veeshan said:

Here a crafted blue bow btw with Orange disc and Purple belt 110 ass, 110 exp and 16.08 pips they range from 49-52 dmgish,.

I dont have a WT mob blue to compare with i tend to sell them but they tend to range from 45-50 dmg 

I think bows, specifically, might be problematic, based on some other examples posted on the forums. I don't think that carries over to other weapons. 

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Just now, Alot said:

I think bows, specifically, might be problematic, based on some other examples posted on the forums. I don't think that carries over to other weapons. 

Think bows still suffer from only getting 1hded weapon stats compared to other 2h weapon which gain twice the stats as bows i havant check in 6.4 but in 6.3 it was like that and still seems to be the case. there 2h clubs and things out there with 25% crit dmg on for example were a full rolledcrit dmg bow sits at 12-13% which i beleive is the same as 1h weapons.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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For reference, this was a purple I pulled from the last campaign. 

Notice it's better than the crafted blue in Critical Strike by 4% and range by >4m  Why, other that durability convivence, would I ever buy a blue off a vendor. 

The only bow I have seen better than WT are the ones I made a haste rune for Veesh to use. (Arklight Bow above).

6k0x5FA.jpg

 

In my opinion someone really made a bad call by pushing so many critical to use things (Advanced tools need purple rune, and the second stat for all other crafts need purple mats) all the way into purple. 

It has made crafted purple the minimum viable to craft and sell, which would be fine if there was a way to get surplus purple resources, 

Maybe the 6.5 update with more high end resources from higher end nodes will address that better.  The couple of weeks of very time consuming work to build a crafter is actually pretty light for an MMO to reach max stats on.  You really really need to know all the buffs you can get to though, from food to equipment seals and jewelry, to really get the most out of you crafting vessels. 

 

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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4 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

For reference, this was a purple I pulled from the last campaign. 

Notice it's better than the crafted blue in Critical Strike by 4% and range by >4m  Why, other that durability convivence, would I ever buy a blue off a vendor. 

The only bow I have seen better than WT are the ones I made a haste rune for Veesh to use. (Arklight Bow above).

6k0x5FA.jpg

 

In my opinion someone really made a bad call by pushing so many critical to use things (Advanced tools need purple rune, and the second stat for all other crafts need purple mats) all the way into purple. 

It has made crafted purple the minimum viable to craft and sell, which would be fine if there was a way to get surplus purple resources, 

Maybe the 6.5 update with more high end resources from higher end nodes will address that better.  The couple of weeks of very time consuming work to build a crafter is actually pretty light for an MMO to reach max stats on.  You really really need to know all the buffs you can get to though, from food to equipment seals and jewelry, to really get the most out of you crafting vessels. 

 

 

This is the one ui made the runes for btw, dmg and stats are lower cause it has like +40 difficulty modifier so roll were not as high as the normal one. It about the samd dmg however since it has dmg mod on it

unknown.png
 

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Your short 2 experimentation over our maxed out Strength crafters on live at this moment, whats your reduction stat look like?

Im getting 56 damage blue bows on test where my woodworker has same stats as my live smith so should be comparable to what I could do on live once we finish grinding the belt. The secondary stats are lower, but part of that is mixing and matching a bit differently - the dropped items seem to cheat a bit in terms of weighting the stats they get - bows in particular may be weird due to the range distance bonus. I'll try to find my leatherworker on test and make a bow maximizing secondary combos smartly - the ones I have on test are random planks I had laying around as I was messing with damage and distance bonus.

Runics are also in a weird place right now, they are a minor upgrade at best it seems, been like that for a few patches.

Edited by Duffy

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1 minute ago, Duffy said:

the dropped items seem to cheat a bit in terms of weighting the stats they get - bows in particular may be weird due to the range distance bonus.

Let's focus on other weapons for now as bows are definitely an outlier. I'll post some Wartribe weapons tonight.

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9 minutes ago, Duffy said:

Your short 2 experimentation over our maxed out Strength crafters on live at this moment, whats your reduction stat look like?

Im getting 56 damage blue bows on test where my woodworker has same stats as my live smith so should be comparable to what I could do on live once we finish grinding the belt. The secondary stats are lower, but part of that is mixing and matching a bit differently - the dropped items seem to cheat a bit in terms of weighting the stats they get - bows in particular may be weird due to the range distance bonus. I'll try to find my leatherworker on test and make a bow maximizing secondary combos smartly - the ones I have on test are random planks I had laying around as I was messing with damage and distance bonus.

Runics are also in a weird place right now, they are a minor upgrade at best it seems, been like that for a few patches.

Woodworking gets shafted with terrible stats u cant actually max out str no matter what u do like u get 122 useful stats i think on WW where BS gets 198 i beleive was necro can get 222 useful stats soo yeah. I am missing the necklace though that might get me a 17th pip but i think its impossible to hit the 20 mark i feel 18 will be pushing it.

WWs get shafted in so many ways, crap stats only 2h weapon crats for disaplines (So double BS resources needed) WW weapons only get 1 hunger shard slot where 2h melee gets 2 (last time i looked atleast) you dont make anything u can sell to other players for there crafts and so on Crafting need a balancing haul to make them more even between them.

you dont even need to touch range distance bonus cause simply equiping a bow on any character will basicly max out ur range sooo yeah.

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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5 minutes ago, Alot said:

Let's focus on other weapons for now as bows are definitely an outlier. I'll post some Wartribe weapons tonight.

posted the other 2 weapons i can craft as a WW already 😛

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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6 minutes ago, veeshan said:

Woodworking gets shafted with terrible stats u cant actually max out str no matter what u do like u get 122 useful stats i think on WW where BS gets 198 i beleive was necro can get 222 useful stats soo yeah.

WWs get shafted in so many ways, crap stats only 2h weapon crats for disaplines (So double BS resources needed) WW weapons only get 1 hunger shard slot where 2h melee gets 2 (last time i looked atleast) you dont make anything u can sell to other players for there crafts and so on Crafting need a balancing haul to make them more even between them.

you dont even need to touch range distance bonus cause simply equiping a bow on any character will basicly max out ur range sooo yeah

Half Giant Champion is the answer. Racial perks are a trap, ignore them, they don't matter at the high end.

Woodworker/Smiths should be HG Champs.

Everything else can go Hamster Duelist.

You will hit 200 pre vessel in your experimentation point stat with all 4 stat bundles and cap your experimentation at 115 either with a piece or two of crafting armor (HG and dex hamsters) or not need it at all (Int based crafting hamsters) as you upgrade the vessels.

Then the rest is just jewelry cycling and tippers/thrall buffs.

Edited by Duffy

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1 minute ago, Duffy said:

Half Giant Champion is the answer. Racial perks are a trap, ignore them, they don't matter at the high end.

yeah i noticed that already however too late since i put lego disc in already so that not happing till i can either take it out without breaking it or finished lego belt and then got enough disc to remake a new one 😛

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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I think the problem with WT versus crafting in some of these corner cases is that the WT gear doesn't follow the same stat rules the crafted gear does and therefore can create some better secondary stats, especially when the damage values aren't blowing away the WT version. Bows may be particularly weird cause they split their damage value with the quiver. Examples I made from test:
A5v5T0L.pngjzQzt7k.pngQemJhQC.png

Edited by Duffy

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41 minutes ago, Duffy said:

I think the problem with WT versus crafting in some of these corner cases is that the WT gear doesn't follow the same stat rules the crafted gear does and therefore can create some better secondary stats, especially when the damage values aren't blowing away the WT version. Bows may be particularly weird cause they split their damage value with the quiver. Examples I made from test:
A5v5T0L.pngjzQzt7k.pngQemJhQC.png

Btw they might have changed how bows are on test wioth crafting, i was on there a couple days ago to see if there still the desceptency between bows and 2h weapon stat wise and that seem to have been addressed although i only did 1 items for a bow and 2hder sword which they were fair equal to, i know 6.3 thhere was a difference between 2 equal BS and WW stat wise with bows and 2h stats however in 6.4 i dunno if they fixed it although it doesnt seem like it since ive seen a mace with 25% crit dmg although legendary however my purple on max crit dmg roll only gets to 13% or so.

So test may not be ideal testing for 6,4 differences however we should be seeing 6.5 soon anyway

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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2 hours ago, veeshan said:

Think bows still suffer from only getting 1hded weapon stats compared to other 2h weapon which gain twice the stats as bows i havant check in 6.4 but in 6.3 it was like that and still seems to be the case. there 2h clubs and things out there with 25% crit dmg on for example were a full rolledcrit dmg bow sits at 12-13% which i beleive is the same as 1h weapons.

Where are you seeing that bows have less stats than 2handers? I just made a white 1h, 2h, and a bow and experimented only in durability. A Bow has the same stats as a 2h and both have twice the stats of a 1h.

weapon_compare.png

giphy.gif

You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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3 minutes ago, coolster50 said:

Where are you seeing that bows have less stats than 2handers? I just made a white 1h, 2h, and a bow and experimented only in durability. A Bow has the same stats as a 2h and both have twice the stats of a 1h.

weapon_compare.png

in 6.3 it was like that again i spose they musta changed it in 6.4 to be right i did mention it on feedback but they never mention it in patch notes so assume they missed it there which is my fault,
WB posted that 2h mace with 25% crit dmg on where i was only getting 12% on my purples they probaly had 2 more exp pips than me however and it was gold instead of purples however it should be a 13% difference there hence why i didnt think it was fixed yet. however that being said WB mace could of been made on test server that could have different values (Quick test on test server seems they uped the stats oncrafted items) compared to current.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Left one is test with a lego rune and green belt with a basic vessel and no crafting buff, Right one is Lego rune and purple belt on a crafter vessel and crafter buff so missing 2 pips on the test server one on the left and 14 in experimentation less both had the exact same pip allocation and resources used in them.

Stat rolls went Dmg, followed by crit dmg. Its odd the dmg is lower than stat difference in comparison since the dmg got rolled 10 pips in each line it was an option where Crit dmg and all stats was rolled with 2 less pips than the live server one each time dmg pop up and having less crafting exp chance, im guessing they boosted stats on crafted stuff on test server my a smidge maybe 5% also gold sell value difference aswell for what ever reason.

Edit: also no purple belt modifier for making exp pips worth more on test server one.

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Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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These are the best I've looted and primarily the result of:

  1. farming captains and higher 
  2. a lot of time scouting for and fighting over weapon caches
  3. sifting through thousands of wartribe drops and vendoring most of it

Weapon caches go brrr, but they are also relatively rare and heavily contested, especially on NA.

One challenge I've run into is that I haven't found an epic weapon for any of my main classes. In one case I have a 90 damage rare and in the other case I haven't found a suitable weapon at all.   

LIKhG0P.png

 

JmL7NmV.png

Edited by Alot
Add short sword
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