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6.520.0 Live Feedback for 4/23/2021


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2 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

Feedback on crafting requirements:

Low to mid tier crafting needs drastic cuts to the materials required.  Right now there is no real ability to learn, experiment, and play around and enjoy the system.  Resource requirements are so high that you need to have a plan or you're farked and any failure or wasted resources feels crushing right now.  IMO poor/common crafts should require about 100% less materials, uncommon/rare crafts should require about 50% less, and epic/legendary should prolly require less too but I'm not experienced enough at those tiers to really say, but 20%/10% less sounds more fair. 

I'm totally ok with end game crafting being a grind fest.  But early game "get your basics" should be trivial to accomplish and mid game "ok now get actual decent gear" should be pretty achievable.  This is especially the case with greens/blues dropping from mobs even in infected. 

Agreed. If anything it should be the opposite, where you need more materials at endgame rather than early game. And the extra cost should be that you can use more resources to make better items. For an example let's look at Weaponsmithing. With a white Weaponsmith Discipline, you need 18 ore to make a single Metal Bar (+ some coal). With a blue Weaponsmithing Belt, you only need 9 ore per Metal Bar (+ some coal). For a One-Handed Weapon, you need 5 Metal Bars. With a white Discipline, you need 90 ore to make a single one-handed weapon (twice that for two-handed weapons). With a blue belt, that's cut in half to 45 ore. It feels awful to spend twice as many resources to make a crappier item that a vet can make. I would rather the reverse, where vets can spend twice as many resources to make a weapon that's twice as better than a noob's weapon, but noobs can also spend half as many resources when grinding out disciplines.

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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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Harvesting Feedback: Energetic Harvesting Combo System.

Overall I like this combo system for harvesting adding onto weakpoints.  However I'd love for it to be flashcast and not actually interrupt your harvesting.  You can definitely use it just fine as is, but it does feel like it impedes the flow a bit when I have to stop hitting to cast the buff every few seconds rather than just cast the buff on the fly while hitting.  It's minor, but would be an appreciated change.

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I've noticed a significant improvement to performance and overall game feel just running around the open world this patch. Far less hitching, random stutters, and FPS drops.

I know I've complained about this a lot but these improvements are great. Keep at it!

These improvements are what make Crowfall subconsciously "feel" better. 

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Ok full practical experience of the crafting flow:

- General Design:  Honestly I love the general design.  It's a complex and clever system with plenty of room to min/max and really feel like you're making meaningful choices.  The general design of it is absolute gold IMO, it's right up my alley and mucho praise for those who came up with it.

- Harvesting experience:  Overall pretty good.  Needs a bit of polish but it's solid and with refinement the weakpoint system combined with the self buff combo loop is engaging.  Characters with full action bars may have difficulty utilizing the buff combo system, but that can likely be solved with iteration.  Just talking about the moment to moment feel of harvesting here not the investment vs return.  I'd say that gravesites need to be marked on your map after you've visited them though.  They are already much harder to find, needing to memorize their locations (or look at a fan made map) seems like an unnecessary barrier that will just leave players confused since it's different than other harvesting.

- Crafting Mechanical Gameplay experience:  The actual act of crafting components and putting it together is pretty satisfying once you know what you need and the visuals/audio feedback for assembly and experimentation and etc seem nice and effective.  Particularly like the video/audio feedback on experimentation.  It's downright slick.

- Availability of knowledge:  Absolutely abysmal.  Anyone not being held by the hand by someone else or not super industrious and self reliant like me is going to be utterly confused and lost.  I'm already guiding other people through in chat despite perhaps a weak of heavy play under my belt because the game gives you cluck all to work with.  As things are currently crafting is going to bounce alot of people who would otherwise enjoy it because the brick wall of missing information will be too much to overcome.

- Investment vs Return: Absolutely abysmal for a new crafter.  In the week of play I've prolly put in close to 40 hours, most of that focused around harvesting and crafting.  I've definitely spent way more time harvesting and crafting than I have farming mobs and when I did farm mobs it was elemental for dust 75% of the time.  Despite that every piece of advanced gear I've made so far has been worse or equal to the mob dropped gear I obtained during the occasional village mobs I've killed.  My only 3 upgrades from crafting in a week of heavy play were a compound bow (bows seem to drop from mobs much more rarely) and advanced arrows since they don't drop from mobs at all.  This is across a full roster of character slots of different classes leveled to level 30.  (I think one is still level 22).  I went at this organized and structured with first priority being a runecrafter.  Your average new player would almost certainly be far less efficient.

  Farming and crafting enough to upgrade high enough to start making useful gear takes absolutely ridiculous amounts of time.  TBH crafting should be useful from the lowest levels to the highest.  If that's not the case then you cannot honestly say player crafting is the best gear.  Because good gear you can get in 10% of the time is always going to be better than slightly better gear that takes 10 times the amount of time.



So in summary it's a great system that is almost completely unexplained leaving the player lost and who's investment vs returns as a beginning crafter are non-existent.  It's a cool but useless money sink until you put a staggering amount of hours into farming up your disc nodes so that you can start using higher tier mats that will actually deliver better than mob dropped gear.  And I hear that problem continues into the mid to end game with War Tribes. 

Edited by Ralathar44
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Can you please look into Templars Parry-Counter skill? As is stands all are picking those classes and with current stamina change its hilarious. Just make parry be same as shields to take from their stamina on parry not like this parrying whole day and night without any repercussions. Change parry to be same as shields on Stamina drain or don't give to it the knockdown let it be just damage on counter. 

 

Edited by b0rch3
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Hi Crowfall team,

Thanks for the invite, I played till level 18 and reached the faction vs faction. The class I played was the knight.

My Feedback

General

  • The game looks nice and has a unique charm
  • The graphics are pleasing to the eye
  • The character models and their customization is very limited
  • I saw some trees spawning inside other trees, same with minerals and stone rocks.
  • My weapon kept disappearing and it's a graphical bug, I had to unequip and equip the weapons again for them to appear.
  • Graphical performance is very bad, still needs a lot of optimization.
  • The world feels very empty due to the lack of mobs and players, the game world needs more mobs and enemy camps and the maps are very small.
  • Hunger is annoying, reduce the rate of hunger.
  • Autorun should stop by pressing numlock again.

Gameplay

  • Gathering feels frustrating, especially the stamina mechanic, stamina consumption during gathering is unnecessary.
  • It makes sense if stamina was used to sprint and escape if caught in a PVP while gathering, but there is no sprint.
  • Atleast reduce the consumption of stamina while gathering, the current rate is very high and the frequent stops are annoying and irritating, will kill new player interest.
  • Need more PVE content like dungeons, raids which can be interrupted by PVP at least open dungeons and open world bosses liker raids,
  • Instanced content like dungeon and PVP needs to be there, that require manual travel through enemy territory.
  • Dungeons can drop permanent upgrades or set blue prints.
  • Too much dependency on PVP and other players. The game will live or die on population, in today's' age there won't be any much community aspects in games.
  • Most users are pick up and play and have fun, thus this game needs some solo adventuring content which are challenging by can be soloed.

 

UI

  • It is messy and the icons are not communicating what each attack does, very difficult to make out shield swipe and bash, simlar problems with many icons.
  • Crafting UI is very hard to make out, also please highlight items in inventory that go into the crafting slot, instead of showing everything.
  • Add a craft  item only tab to the inventory.
  • Add indications for junk, sacrifice, equipment and add different tabs or allow people to add tabs.
  • The flat icons kinda lack personality and general UI is very bland and doesn't look fun.
  • The UI is sleek but at the same time unable to target where what information is there. Information foraging is difficult.
  • There should be a quest panel on the screen, going to journal by pressing J or esc is very irritating.

 

Combat

  • Too flashy and unable to make out what the heck is going most time.
  • Melees attacks feel sense of impact.
  • The HP bar of enemies don't decrease in whole numbers but they reduce in floats, thus after the player stops attack there is a lingering reduction animation, the HP still reduces for a couple of seconds, thus creating a feel like the player has done bleed or that there is no sense of impact.
  • Reduce the HP bar in blocks, remove the flow based reduction animation, they should get removed chip by chip as the player makes contact with weapon on enemy'sbody
  • Mobs kinda appear out of nowhere, can track fro where they are coming.
  • The knight chain skill is glitched and it just blinks the target in front of the player, can't see the enemy coming, instead it just blinks and comes
  • Telegraphs needs to be more visible, most enemies does the abilities and the telegraphs appear afterwards.
  • The edges of AOE telegraphs have spikes and other distracting shapes, make them regular shapes like circle, semi circle, concentric circles etc., it's very noisy to a game that is already noisy.

Thanks once again,

 

Edited by TheFibrewire
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CRAFTING NEEDS LOVE - Leveling - Catch up mech? - Cost - Uselessness - Tutorial - FUN

When is the last time an ACE Dev has tried to make, level, and use a Crafter?  How long did it take them to make gear that was better (stats wise and not just durability) then War Tribe gear (talking about armor and weapons)?

Tutorial - Grab a random noob and ask them to make you a breastplate or a bow.  First you will need to create them a guide to let them know what they need to even start.  Do they know about crafting discs?  Do they know that once they get a green disc drop to equip the first one and go get a tool belt?  Crafting is not something you can just do, there is a fairly sizable learning curve.  Great, now Ace has told you what are acceptable combinations for a metal bar, but still not what the outcome might produce (stat wise).  Is it that hard to add more info to the mouse over things (a few more key strokes)?  Something needs done here.

Leveling - Oh this hurts so much !   (insert crafting guide here) First to level a crafter you need a harvester (insert harvesting guide here).  Now that you have a harvester go and get a bunch of mats.  Oh BTW you will need a few harvesters to get the mats. After 2 days go by because you had to level harvesters and get mats (Guild Crafters will be different) Equip the white crafting Disc and craft useless crap.  Could have spent day one getting War Tribe Gear which is better.  Oh and by the way you just used all the mats you had.  Log back onto harvesters and do it again.  Now day 3 or 4 (for new players this is probably early due to them having to look up or try to find the info on what to do) you should have gotten a green disc drop (I hope, because it is random).  Equip green disc and get green belt.  Hopefully you gathered enough stuff to make alot of items to get more green Crafting discs to drop.  Now to the second week of crafting.  You should have at least 3 green discs and can now make a blue one.  Hold on to your private areas cause they cost an arm and a leg.      F' this !!!!!  I am not going to write all this down.  To shorten this, need Harvesters and mats to craft and gold to level.  If you are in a guild this is not going to take as long if you are the guild crafter and people are giving you all their mats and gold.  A new player is not going to have access to guild help even when they join a guild because all the mats are going to a more experienced /Level'd crafter.  So poor new player that wants to craft will be months and months behind the Guild Crafter, even if they started the crafter on the same day!

Costs - Depends on if your the guild crafter or not.  If not the guild crafter then OMFG you are in for a GRIND.  The costs of making harvesters, tools, gold to level discs, gear, and time.  Then you get to start adding up costs for the crafter.  Just so much BS to get through to craft.  OH and remember, All this cost is up front because you can't make anything better then War Tribe gear till the end.

Catch up Mechanic - This freaking makes me laugh.  No one is even talking about it since the removal of the passive training system.  This is still an issue ya ducks. The Econ is totally screwed (will be if one gets started).  Guild crafters are busy crafting guild gear.  Sure those crafters have to suffer through the time (which is long) that they can not make things better then war tribe, but who is selling stuff on player vendors?  No one, because the gear sucks compared to War Tribe.  There are not going to be player vendors stocked with Crafted gear because the only crafters able to make things better then War Tribe are the Guild Crafters.  So there no way to catch up to the guild crafters till they max out and can't go any farther.  So now other crafters can catch up, but it will take months if not guild supported.  Ok that's cool, after about 6 months into launch, crafters not supported by a guild might be finally catching up.  What about new players that wanna craft and set up vendors?  There is no way around this that I can see.  UNLESS Lego crafters can make something that will allow other crafters to catch up.  Wasn't that part of the reason to get rid of the passive system?

Uselessness - All Crafters are almost useless till they level up.  There are some things that don't drop from War Tribes which will make some crafters usefull to start with.  Why is War Tribe stuff so good?  I don't see them out harvesting where I could gank them and take their mats.  White Crafted Gear should be better then ANY Wartibe gear.  With a few small exceptions like if the items came off a a boss mob (Chief or above) but still should not be better then green crafted gear.  If the gear was good, the grind to make the crafter would not be so painful.

FUN - yeah you can forget that.  It might be fun to do your first few crafts.  That is till you equip that stuff and go killing in a war tribe and pick up better stuff.  Hours to gather the material and craft a set of gear to just go out in 15 - 20 min and have better gear.  Well DUCK, took the fun out of that and any other crafting until I can make things that are not useless.  So no fun to level, because you are not making anything you can use.  No fun actually crafting, because the reason you are doing it is to level the crafter to get better.  No fun gathering mats, because you have figured out that if you sold the mats you could make more gold then throwing it away to make something you will sell to npc vendor.  The FUN does not start until you can craft good items that people would actually want.

There are more issues, but these affect the new players more then the vets.  Gotta think like a noob and listen to their feedback if the game is going to survive.  The closer we get to launch the more worried I get.  Been years people have been trying to get ACE to make a tutorial, so they make NPE.  Which seems to only touch on some things and cover the easier stuff.  Like how many Newbs need to know how to quip a mount, or use a bandage, or kill a wolf?  Never heard a person ever ask that in general chat.  Some stuff is usefull, like crafting tools and harvesting leather, But it does not explain that you can get better at that stuff by having better discs or upgrading your tools.  For Ducks sake, Just a freaking read through (Which is easy to change when needed) on the Crowfall website would help.

Oh  I will be saving the post like I did my other one to put in EVERY feedback till something is done or it is a least acknowledged that there are issues.

Edited by DarnHippy
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This is my opinion so please feel free to disagree or whatever.

 

In character creation, I go though the process -

Select a race, then select a class...

... but when I click on the class, the races that can't be it should go dark (but not unavailable) - so the player can easily compare statistics - judging by the number of numbers and the vast swathes of text on the character creator, they are very important.

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With gold not being so easy to get this would be a great time to have trading be a thing.

We should be able to use our trade to make money somehow. Before it was simple to waste a few hours getting gold, as it is today we cant waste that time.

I know you guys dont want those but Action Houses would be better than what we have now.

Even if it was only Alliance wide and cw only. Think that way they wouldnt be too disruptive.

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Feedback on Inventory and World Bank management:

- Inventory size:  Feels sufficiently large. 
- Cross character world bank: love it.
- Item usefulness:  Nothing except leaf scraps feels like useless junk, everything is useful.  Lore items are a very interesting addition that I feel adds another layer to funding your leveling or leveling a keep/fort.  Very good in this aspect.
- Inventory management:  Horrible.  The lack of an autosort really sucks bad and makes inventory management an absolute chore.
- World Bank inventory management:  Pretty bad.  The search feature helps but really needs many more categories.  Weapons, Armor, Crafting materials (possibly with subcategories for each crafting profession), lore, food + potions, recipe, discipline stones, EK stuff, misc.  Just spitballed examples.


A friend of mine saw me playing and tried the game as well.  Their single biggest complaint was inventory management.

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Feedback on Major/minor Discipline System:

This is one area of the game I feel is done really well so positive feedback!  I'm sure there will always be balance concerns but it's a unique and interesting system that can significantly change the capabilities of your character.  My Pit Fighter (Champion) favored more passives that made them hard to CC and pin down.  My Conqueror (Myrmadon) favored 2 ranged Disciplines that makes him more flexible by letting him be a threat at range for PVP support, while my Swordsman (Knight) favored survivability and thorns.

The sheer amount of combinations will surely make balance and keeping cheese under wraps challenging, but without a doubt it makes character building a very interesting prospect and one where many many unique builds are possible.

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7 hours ago, DarnHippy said:

Uselessness - All Crafters are almost useless till they level up.  There are some things that don't drop from War Tribes which will make some crafters usefull to start with.  Why is War Tribe stuff so good?  I don't see them out harvesting where I could gank them and take their mats.  White Crafted Gear should be better then ANY Wartibe gear.  With a few small exceptions like if the items came off a a boss mob (Chief or above) but still should not be better then green crafted gear.  If the gear was good, the grind to make the crafter would not be so painful.

Even if War Tribe gear was removed, there still wouldn't be any use for your crafted gear unless you're the primary crafter of a large guild as their crafted gear will be significantly better than yours and their supply can vastly outpace all demand. The only impact this will have is funneling more resources (gold) to the largest guilds while also making the game less accessible for new players and small guilds. There are many flaws in the crafting and progression systems but War Tribe gear is not one of them, in my opinion.

7 hours ago, DarnHippy said:

Catch up Mechanic - This freaking makes me laugh.  No one is even talking about it since the removal of the passive training system. 

Definitely not true. We've been discussing the passive skill system and catch up mechanic for weeks/months, since it was removed. We've also discussed many of the issues you've highlighted in your post. Feel free to search the forums for additional threads. The solution is apparently to join or merge into a large guild (by Crowfall's standards) if you want to play competitively and prove loyalty and availability if you want to be a crafter.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what is discussed. Game development seems to have been largely shifted to Hungerdome and it is unlikely that major systems will be improved significantly before launch if the intent is to launch this year.

There are so many game-breaking design flaws in the MMO portion that remain unresolved or even acknowledged (like zone capped sieges, lack of an economy, and exports/imports), that it seems like the MMO portion is at best secondary to Hungerdome.

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Feedback on character slots vs classes available:

6 Default character slots available in a game with 11 classes and 12 crafting disciplines.  Booo.  Feels bad man.
9 character slots available with VIP.  lol you still can't have 1 of everything even with VIP.  RIP.

IMO default character slots should be boosted to like 8 and then VIP should be 12.  I really don't understand the reasoning for such low character slot limits.  It just feels unduly limiting and it also impedes my ability to properly test the game.

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I got to level 18, entered the faction v faction world and I can't find a single quest to do. I read in some forums that you just farm to level 30...

The game is pretty good so far, fair combat, crafting etc seem fun and understandable, tree and skills are easy to understand. 

My biggest concerns is that there is no clear objective on what to do and where to go IE what I opened this paragraph with

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4 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

Feedback on character slots vs classes available:

6 Default character slots available in a game with 11 classes and 12 crafting disciplines.  Booo.  Feels bad man.
9 character slots available with VIP.  lol you still can't have 1 of everything even with VIP.  RIP.

IMO default character slots should be boosted to like 8 and then VIP should be 12.  I really don't understand the reasoning for such low character slot limits.  It just feels unduly limiting and it also impedes my ability to properly test the game.

Just like inventory shortage, players will have to purchase more slots from their cash shop.

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Feedback regarding supplying/upgrading forts/keeps:

I feel like there should be some small reward to supply keeps either to build walls or level them up.  Exp for leveling, small amounts of gold, perhaps some sort of PVP contribution currency.  Build in some positive feedback loops.

And to give keeps a better reason to upgrade, be fought over, and kept maybe forts and keeps can give bonuses for their faction to the zone (or the area around them) as the wall gets built and as you raise their levels.   Small bonus chance for harvesting drops/amounts nearby that scale with fort/keep level, slightly increased gold drops, reduced wear and tear on gear, slightly increased damage vs monsters, slightly reduced damage taken from monsters, consumption/ingestion/metabolism buffs, etc.  Stuff that people would definitely value but would not directly affect PVP.

Edited by Ralathar44
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56 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

Feedback regarding supplying/upgrading forts/keeps:

Just so you are aware, ACE has indicated a stream or 2 ago that they are still pushing include free-building (possible destruction?) in the dregs campaign. That would change most variables dealing with forts/keeps. I personally think its needed to have more personal investment in playing in non-persistent campaigns with non-persistent avatars.

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