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Crowfall/ACE - WTF


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Welcome! I guess the title did it's job, you are here!  Grab a cold beer, light the bong, and sit back.  I am sure it's going to be a bumpy ride.

I wanted to discuss some issues I have with the current state of Crowfall.  Topics include (but are not limited to):   Changes made - Crafting - HUNGER DOME and ECS - Infected - Content - Eternal Kingdoms - Alliance.

Changes Made - Two major changes were made in the not so distant past. Passive training tree and Domain choices for character creation are the two that I keep pondering about.

          Passive training was a great idea I though.  It did need some tweaks on what was time gated and what was not, but overall I liked it.  Just because I could level a crafter or harvester with out being online all the time.  My skills in Crafting and Harvesting would be on par as everyone else even if I could not log in as much. Yes, a catch up mechanic would have had to been developed.  There could have been easy ways around that, but that is another topic.  Another reason I liked the passive training was because it did time gate.  Now there is no way that a solo crafter can keep up with a guild supported crafter.  So, the only choice I have is to help gather to help the guild crafters get mats so they can level as fast as the other big guilds. Being in a guild is great, but if you like to craft but are not the guild crafter . . . 😞.  So in a big guild you have a small amount of Crafters/people supporting 50 - 100 members.  Just feel this hurts Econ and my feelings.  I want, I want, I want my crafter to be useful. 

          Domains were introduced to make harder choices with more options for class creation, is what I thought, but I could be wrong.  I liked being able to make a pistol Dirge and not be stuck using rapier to be viable.  I do like the current system, but . . . I liked the open system where I could equip any disc no matter class.  I wanna make a Bomb Pally.  I want, I want !! !!  I know this would be a balancing nightmare so I understand. 

Crafting - Oh lord, please make my crafter useful, Amen.  Where do I end?  There is to many ways to begin this topic.  War tribes, Cost, and Why is what I am concerned about.  

          War Tribes is the best place to get gold and gear at the same time.  War Tribe gear is almost as good as top quality crafted gear.  Going to a fight in War Tribe gear is not something people are worried about because it is good freaking gear at a great price.  The only down side is the durability.  Big guilds will farm War Tribes to Gear up and get gold while passing the gold on to the guild crafters.  Giving larger guilds the advantage, it is really noticeable at end game crafting level.  End game is when the crafters start to shine.  Early crafted gear is trash and people don't even put it on player vendors because it's easier to go hit mobs and get better gear.  If you can't sell it to a Newb then it is NPC vendor trash.

          What does it cost to make a crafter? A ton of gold to level the Discs.  A ton of materials to craft gear to get discs to drop.  (insert crafting guide here)  Alot of time, effort, and GOLD.  Price for dom dust is . . .OMFG.  That is alot of time not crafting.  Takes up time gather gold, materials, and time (to finally get some crafting in).  Oh and I forgot . . . time for siege. . . I don't have time for none of that other stuff 🙂 .  Being in a guild can help if your the guild crafter.  All mats and gold should goto the most experienced crafter in the guild until fully maxed.  Then higher level mats will still be needed by the highest level crafter in guild, but then is the time to start others.  Just sux to have to wait cause I like crafting (yes I am one of the crazy ones).  

          So why even make a crafter if you are not in a guild and the main crafter.  hmmm  . . . Because I am crazy and enjoy crafting.  As long as I am in a great alliance/guild, gathering mats for the crafters, and showing up for sieges, I do get pretty much what I ask for crafted.  So why make one?  Just to put it bluntly . . . Don't, unless you are ok with being useless till you max out your crafter and catch up with everyone else.  Oh and enjoy wasting the mats that the maxed crafters could have used to make you better stuff 😛 .

Hunger Dome and ECS - YAY! Hunger dome is out.  HOLY SHoT  ECS with Razer tourney.  Oh wait, I can't get in Hunger Dome on Test or Live.  Wasn't it suppose to come out last patch?  Oh they must be having major issues to only let it be played under snap test conditions.  Wow they are still going on with ECS.  Hmmmm . . . I would love to play Hunger Dome when I just feel like killing someone.  Main concern here is snap tests and gaining enough interest in playing it when it is not avail at all times.  Ok I could play during snap test, if I wasn't busy with siege or IRL stuff.  I would love to come in from a hard day work and jump into a few hunger matches before siege or going harvesting.  Wouldn't it be easier to generate hype and players interest in playin in ECS if it was available at all times?  The only thing I can think is that they are having major (MAJOR) problems and are able to hide it in the small scale.  I have pretty much given up on it till they can make it available at all times.  The problem is I think alot of people are thinking the same thing.

Infected - Is this a "Starting Zone" or a "Campaign"?  It has quests so it must be a starting zone.  It has pvp and siege times so it must be a campaign.  Wait, no one can win so this must be a starting zone.  Damn, I am confused.  Who ever said that starting zones can't have pvp or siege times? So why is this current version in the FvF (Faction vs Faction) Campaign area?  OK, I can understand that there needs to be something there as a place holder till ACE wants to run 2 campaigns at the same time (FvF and Dregs).  Is that why that map is in the Infected area?   Still have no clue, but don't make sense to me to release like that.

Content - Current in game content:  Pack Pigs, Keeps, Forts, Outposts, Harvesting, Crafting, PVP, General Chat, War Tribes, Event tab, glory cards.  Seems like quite a bit, if players chose to do it.  I think I heard that somewhere.  Let's examine 😮 ! 

          Lets start with Keeps.  Not an option if not in a large guild.  A smaller guild could take one once they get the gold to buy a seed, and hold it till attacked.  Once they got it, it's a good bet they will struggle to try to build it.  Especially since all the big guilds are gobbling up the Forts and pigs.  So lets move on to them. 

          Smaller guilds will get ran over by the Zerg during a fort battle and might be able to sneak win a few.  This will not be fun for most since the goal will be to avoid all PVP. 

          Pigs are a way to go to avoid the zerg as much, but big guilds run in groups to avoid getting run over by other groups and will run over you. And you can harvest more then the pigs will give you with slightly less risk due to event tab. 

         OH Event tab, is a good place to look for a fight.  It tells others your location for some actions and spawns of boss mobs.  Don't go unless you have a group.  So that one is content for some. 

         Outposts are fought over by big guilds for leader board points.  Sometimes there are glory cards for the small guilds to get in some content here. 

          Glory cards are content for all but only competitive for large guilds unless the card mentions Landless guilds or per member.  But even that gets skewed  by large guilds locking down the area. So the larger guilds tend to get the per member ones also. 

          Harvesting and crafting are linked due to needing the materials to craft.  Harvesting is best done in off hours if you are able to play then due to IRL stuff.  Can be rough if you don't have a group with you, watch for the zerg. 

         War tribes are good place to get gold, gear, glory card items.  That is why they are fought over and usually covered by a larger guild.

          General Chat is a good place to help others asking questions.  It can also be quite entertaining on who is crying, dying, or whining!  Over all good time as long as you don't get butt hurt over the silly talk that some say just to try to get a rise out of peeps.

          So for content looking at it from a solo or small to medium guild the tally comes in as:  General Chat is the biggest piece of content that any size guild can get involved. 

Second place goes to PVP.  Never hard to find if you don't expect to live any way.  Event tab could be second also but only as a tool for pvp. 

Next is all tied for third place because it all depends on how many large enemy groups are running around on the (what I think is alittle small, seems smaller due to places I can't hide 🙂) map. War Tribes, Harvesting, and Pigs are content but only till you get killed 4 times in an hour or so trying to do each of those things as solo or small group depending on prime time. 

Glory cards depend largely on what the card says. Then on being able to gather or fight enough to outweigh the larger guilds.  And stay way from the zerg.

Keeps, Forts, and outposts will be mainly only content for Large guilds.

         There is no content is a fair assessment from someone that wants to play in a small guild and can mainly play during Prime hours.  The best options for content are General Chat and going to to try to solo gank.  The other options are not there at all if larger guilds own the map. Which makes the maps feel small for some but to big for the other group that doesn't need to hide to have content.  I bet New players feel this more then most and determines if they stay or leave.

Eternal Kingdoms - Damn some of these look great.  Only problem here is that if someone wants to set up a Vendor EK then they tend to run a macro or something to keep it logged in.  There should be a box or something to check to keep it active if it has vendors up.  Something. . . I know it cost ACE to run those servers and the resources it would take to keep everyone ek active at all times.  

          There are other issues, but that really effects the Econ and can't really test it with out every EK running some outside program to stay active.

Alliance -Well that didn't work.  Mega guilds turned to mega alliance back to mega guild due to the lack of a scoring system properly worked out.  An alliance shouldn't be fighting each other for conquest points and is the main reason for the mega Guilds. Blazzen mentioned another UI that showed Alliance points.  At end of Campaign totals are taken from each guild and the points are given to the alliance they are in at end of campaign.  There just needs to be a better scoring system or something in place where the guilds in the alliance don't have to compete for any type of points.  I mentioned Alliance points only.  If the guild is in an Alliance then all points are totaled no matter which guild capped what.  Then there could be a UI maybe that showed the points each guild contributed.  The hard thing is when the alliance is running together, 3 guilds standing in the circle of a fort.  How is the capture determined?  I say the same.  As alliance, the system recognizes if player x is in an ally and capture is done that way.  

The End  Thanks for your time and any input.  I know there are alot of issues I didn't mention.  Put them in here too for Discussion.  Told ya it was going to be a bumpy ride.  Hope you didn't spill the beer or the Bong water.

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34 minutes ago, DarnHippy said:

Domains were introduced to make harder choices with more options for class creation, is what I thought, but I could be wrong.  I liked being able to make a pistol Dirge and not be stuck using rapier to be viable.  I do like the current system, but . . . I liked the open system where I could equip any disc no matter class.  I wanna make a Bomb Pally.  I want, I want !! !!  I know this would be a balancing nightmare so I understand. 

I disliked the restrictiveness as well.  I hadn't tested in a long time, got on, and noticed that the disc options were severely limited on my CC templar.  I am not sure what balance issues more choice would cause--if all the disciplines are available for all the classes, then people can choose what they like.  Maybe it's because everyone will run the same type of OP class/disc combo?  If that is the case, shouldn't they address that specifically, instead?  I don't know.  All I know is, that it doesn't feel as good and is less fun (even if it is more balanced).  

Also, as you mentioned zergs.  Now, in an open world PvP game with a large amount of player agency, there are going to be zergs.  Anyone who has played open world PvP is not surprised by this.  You can find creative ways to mitigate this somewhat from a design perspective, perhaps (eg, enabling friendly fire).  However, our crack team of 6 expert players is likely to get rolled by a group of 18 average ones. That's open world PvP.  If you or I don't want to play in a large guild or with a large alliance, then we should expect to be outnumbered under certain circumstances.  If people are so put off by zergs, then what they really want to play is an arena/BG, not open world PvP.   

“... [T]he pure light of chivalry... distinguishes the noble from the base, the gentle knight from the churl and the savage;... rates our life far, far beneath the pitch of our honour, raises us victorious over pain, toil, and suffering, and teaches us to fear no evil but disgrace.” --Walter Scott

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26 minutes ago, Baomaug said:

If you or I don't want to play in a large guild or with a large alliance, then we should expect to be outnumbered under certain circumstances.  If people are so put off by zergs, then what they really want to play is an arena/BG, not open world PvP.   

I am in a larger guild. I expect to get zerged all the time and I am part of some zergs 🙂 .  I just mentioned zergs because that is a determining factor on whether you want to do a certain part of the in-game content or not.  That said, yes this is one of those games where its about numbers to an extent.  Thanks for your comments 🙂 

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7 hours ago, DarnHippy said:

I know it cost ACE to run those servers and the resources it would take to keep everyone ek active at all times. 

Server costs are actually quite inexpensive in 2021. I can host servers for pocket change(and have) in some games. 10+ years ago it wasnt so cheap, in another 10 it will be basically free.

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This is a well thought out post and I know it took you a long time to write it BUT... if you were hoping for any dev to see it and make some changes, why not post it in the feedback threads? Devs aren't gonna look thru General to hope to find feedback. 

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10 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

This is a well thought out post and I know it took you a long time to write it BUT... if you were hoping for any dev to see it and make some changes, why not post it in the feedback threads? Devs aren't gonna look thru General to hope to find feedback. 

I think she mentioned wanting a discussion, that would be hard on feedback threads since they lock them every few days.

btw, they deleted suggestion subforum, so....

Edited by mystafyi
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1 minute ago, mystafyi said:

I think she mentioned wanting a discussion, that would be hard on feedback threads since they lock them every few days.

Then this is the proper home. Sadly, IMO, we've had similar discussions for years and very little gets 'fixed'. Because the devs aren't part of the discussion.

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I looked for the suggestion tab, but I guess ACE don't want any more suggestions.  I did notice a few times that if a post got alot of attention then the devs look and wonder what it's about.  If the community cares enough about this, the devs will look due to just the shear number of replies.  Hell, it probably won't work, but that won't stop me from trying.

So lets continue the discussion and give your ideas for fixing these issues.  Hell, just give your feedback on if you think these are even issues.  If you disagree with me about what I have mentioned, Great, I would like to know more.  We as backers/testers have a voice in the outcome of this concept that will soon be a Game called Crowfall.

OH BTW. I am a he. Not a she. 😮 🙂 

4 hours ago, mystafyi said:

Server costs are actually quite inexpensive in 2021

Then persistent EK's is not really tied to that.  Thanks for the info.  What do you think about the other topics?

3 hours ago, MacDeath said:

This is a well thought out post and I know it took you a long time to write it BUT...

I know.  Can't really get feedback to ACE like we use to.  My question for you is if you think these are issues or not important crap?  Thanks for replying 🙂 

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5 minutes ago, DarnHippy said:

I looked for the suggestion tab, but I guess ACE don't want any more suggestions.  I did notice a few times that if a post got alot of attention then the devs look and wonder what it's about.  If the community cares enough about this, the devs will look due to just the shear number of replies.  Hell, it probably won't work, but that won't stop me from trying.

So lets continue the discussion and give your ideas for fixing these issues.  Hell, just give your feedback on if you think these are even issues.  If you disagree with me about what I have mentioned, Great, I would like to know more.  We as backers/testers have a voice in the outcome of this concept that will soon be a Game called Crowfall.

OH BTW. I am a he. Not a she. 😮 🙂 

Then persistent EK's is not really tied to that.  Thanks for the info.  What do you think about the other topics?

I know.  Can't really get feedback to ACE like we use to.  My question for you is if you think these are issues or not important crap?  Thanks for replying 🙂 

I think these are real issues and you have every right to offer your views on them.  I think you would have a somewhat better chance of impacting these issues if you used the feedback forums.

Yes, it's true that ACE removed the Suggestion forums during a cleanup but they DO ask us for feedback. 

You can find the current patch feedback thread here: 

 

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11 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

I think you would have a somewhat better chance of impacting these issues if you used the feedback forums.

Cool, I will repost over there and save a copy so I can repost each week 😛 .  Ok, I will probably not repost every week, lol. Maybe.

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8 minutes ago, DarnHippy said:

 

Cool, I will repost over there and save a copy so I can repost each week 😛 .  Ok, I will probably not repost every week, lol. Maybe.

Another area that ACE solicits our views on what we like and don't like about the most current major build can be found here: 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I saw the Likes - Dislikes yesterday.  I will wait till next Q&A to post there.  🙂  thanks

Oh I did just put this in feedback.

Edited by DarnHippy
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18 hours ago, DarnHippy said:

So why even make a crafter if you are not in a guild and the main crafter. 

Next to no one mains a crafter, lets not pretend that they do. As long as multiple accounts for the same person is a thing, people are going to have secondary+ accounts for crafting / gathering while they main a combat role.

The whole "my role is a crafter" thing could be really cool, if that was your only role. But Crowfall is just like any other game where you can "do it all" as long as you buy enough accounts...

Not a fan.

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18 minutes ago, Toadwart said:

The whole "my role is a crafter" thing could be really cool, if that was your only role. But Crowfall is just like any other game where you can "do it all" as long as you buy enough accounts...

I know for a fact that people are main crafters.  They collect the material from the guild to craft the majority of items for the guild.  That takes alot of time.  Then they harvest for the rare items the guild might be short of.   But . . . now you don't need a bunch of accounts to Harvest/Craft.  On a low lvl account you can make every type of harvester.  Not checked on the Crafters for second account but you can always buy more character slots for the one account.  Since the removal of the passive training system per account, now one account can have multiple toons with different harvest/craft skills AND still have combat Discs for Main toon combat.

My main concern is the comments I read on forums about the new players coming in trying to craft.  Then if they figure that out, they run into the catch up to everyone else prob.  Not an easy solution but the discussion is open.  

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1 hour ago, Toadwart said:

The whole "my role is a crafter" thing could be really cool, if that was your only role. But Crowfall is just like any other game where you can "do it all" as long as you buy enough accounts...

While technically you could do it all yourself, that is not practical. Guilds work together to cover all the bases and that works much better.

Crowfall is not like other games where doing it all yourself works fine.

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Is this really all people have to say on the topics?  WTF community ?   Just type something like: "Agree with x, y, and v." or "STFU Hippy" 😛 !

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25 minutes ago, DarnHippy said:

Is this really all people have to say on the topics?  WTF community ?   Just type something like: "Agree with x, y, and v." or "STFU Hippy" 😛 !

Most of the folks that care about these topics have stated their positions over the course of years and have been mostly  ignored over and over. 

It's hard for most of those folks to get too stirred up again, IMO.

And then, it's probable that only about 10% of Crowfall players (or any other game's players) even READ the forums, much less comment on forum posts.

Do NOT STFU Hippy! Post what's on your mind, just don't expect much reaction from the community or the devs.

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Posted (edited)

I know.  I have been watching this for years also.  Just makes me sad that this awesome game is headed for disaster come launch.  I hope it doesn't happen, but just lock at the Cluster Duck that is called HungerDome.  I put another post in Feedback and will probably post both every Feedback.  Both are saved in note pad so it's an easy copy paste to Feedback.  That is till they ban me from forums  LOL.

Edited by DarnHippy
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On 4/23/2021 at 7:22 PM, Baomaug said:

I disliked the restrictiveness as well.  I hadn't tested in a long time, got on, and noticed that the disc options were severely limited on my CC templar.  I am not sure what balance issues more choice would cause--if all the disciplines are available for all the classes, then people can choose what they like.  Maybe it's because everyone will run the same type of OP class/disc combo?  If that is the case, shouldn't they address that specifically, instead?  I don't know.  All I know is, that it doesn't feel as good and is less fun (even if it is more balanced). 

 

The current disc system is so overly restrictive there might as well be class locks as it doesn't really provide any real effective diversity and theory-crafting. Almost every class is going to end up running the same/similar disciplines/domains in the end. There will be those 'really good' ones, and then all of the rest behind it. We're already seeing this for the most part for both majors and minors. Example - how many effective majors and minors for a healing cleric (Crusader?) - not many (or any) real options if you want to put out the HPS and you essentially have to take the same minors as everyone else due to the restrictive nature of usability.

I would guess they are pushing it to simplicity for the sake of expediency and balance. It's a longer, harder slog through testing and balancing. It takes more effort, effort which at this point I don't think they are interested in expending.

Hunger Dome to me, feels like an attempt to gather in the e-sport/tourney/streamer crowd that I think ultimately won't amount to anything. Almost every game that tries this doesn't fully succeed in it. I think their efforts might have been better spent with an instanced/queued up PVP Scenario type system with varied game modes, and 15 minute duration people could queue up for during slow times in Dregs.

Infected suffers major identity crisis. I agree. A few people I recommended the game to got in, went through the starting areas, got to infected for some play, and after awhile are wondering what the point of it is while they either wait for a Dregs, or are forced to find a larger guild. I'd guess until the identity crisis of infected is addressed, a lot of people won't progress to far into the game when it launches before wondering what the point is.

I like Crowfall a lot, but I have huge concerns about it if it launches anywhere near the state it is in now. (investors needing a payday not withstanding) I detect a certain level of hubris from some of the Crowfall team. Unless I am misreading things, and overly analyzing my interactions with them? That hubris will be their downfall if it exists in the perception I have with it currently.

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On 4/25/2021 at 6:19 AM, DarnHippy said:

Is this really all people have to say on the topics?  WTF community ?   Just type something like: "Agree with x, y, and v." or "STFU Hippy" 😛 !

Not much else to say. ACE seems to think this game will "Redefine" MMOs and MMO eSports so I hope it pays off for their business model.

As a PVP fan looking for combat with a decent skill ceiling, deep character building, and overall some PVP specific content, this game has let me down.

Much has changed since the start for better or worse and yet it still seems far away from being a full fledged game that will sustain itself. Less then 8 months to go if they plan to launch this year so I don't expect major changes/improvements at this point, especially with the focus on Hunger Dome. Looking at their roadmap, seems like post launch is when they will refocus on the MMO and putting in some basic features and content that should of been in a long time ago.

 


 

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