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Archmage - the class with no weaknesses


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This class is the total package having AoE burst, Single target executes, AoE heal mod reduction and high crowd Control. If it could just heal itself it could 1v5... if it cant already

Fighting this class there is no situation where they are on the back foot. In the open field they kite you with infinite CC and do solid damage + a dot. You cannot possibly close distance and kill them. They win. In confined spaces you are permanently heal debuffed, slowed, Ice armor debuffed and susceptible to chaos orb cheese hitting your whole group for 4-5k and shatter storm deleting your group for a similar amount. They win. Choose not to fight them and use buildings/terrain to hide? They shell you with volatile Ice and shred your group. They win.

Strengths
Insane Burst: This class has some of the best burst damage in the game and its AoE. Its pretty easy to execute. Shatter storm plus ice stores = big damage. Toss in a master of focus for Chaos Orb spam and you have arguably the highest burst damage class in the game.

Ranged Execute: This class has a ranged 5 second CD 2 hit execute what else needs to be said?

High Crowd Control:
Shatter Storm: 9 second AoE slow on 15 second cool down. If you are unfortunate enough to retaliate and clear it the slow reapplies giving it higher up time.
Frigid Ice: 9 second root on first application and 5 second knock down for each additional application within 30 seconds. Useable while moving with no cooldown.

This skill hard CCs for 5 seconds (9 on first application) and hits twice while doing so. This is with a naked archmage, 28 base damage weapon. Did I mention it has no cooldown?

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Heal modifier reduction: Black ice covers an area for -25% PHM AoE with a 15 second debuff after leaving that can be refreshed if you leave and go back in. 100% up time if you stand in it.

 

Armor shred: Bitter Cold is 15% for 20 seconds. Its so easily applied you will have it on you 100% of the fight.

 

Things you would think would be a problem but are not

It has no mobility skill: With the prevalence of stakes in the meta this is not really an issue as the enemies are always slowed so you can just walk away. On top of that you have your own 60% up time AoE slow and a spamable root/knockdown. Kiting is no problem especially if they go High elf and all archmages pretty much do due to their higher mobility.

It has to use ice storage to spam knockdowns: Their ult is 500 SP and recharges all 5 ice stores and mana. It has a 27 second cool down. Its almost impossible to have mana/ice problems as you can restore it so fast.

Its in leather: All classes give and take true damage in this game. Armor is made of literal pieces of paper with paperclips holding it together so armor type is meaningless.

It has no defensive skills: This can be corrected with master of focus giving mana shield. In addition with a 27 second CD ultimate that gives 5 second damage reduction you can reduce nearly all damage you receive. Melee classes have incredibly low uptime on you as they are infinitely CCed and slowed. When they get to you just press Q and laugh. Then CC them and move. By the time they get to you again Ult will likely be up, if its not it will be shortly. Ranged Classes can be body blocked as other ranged classes do not do ranged AoE damage in such volume and those that do, like confessor tornados, can be dodged.

 

Conclusion: This class has absolutely no situation where it may under perform. Melee have not a hope of hitting them for more than 2-3 seconds continuously. If they can even get there. It is almost impossible to kill and played correctly can put huge pressure on groups. It feels similar to old druid before they ripped apart its kit in to 3 sub classes. Its just got to much going for it. Please oh ACE gods deliver us from this plague.

Edited by Balathan
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+1 for nerfing Yumx.

Than you can finally look at Warden, who has more mitigation, more damage, more mobility and better Ult than AM and mass heal block+stun with the radius of golf field on top of that.

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Even though Yumx is exeptional player, and him playing Archmage makes that class look extremely OP, how many other classes in HD Archetypes have single target Execution power combined with really high AoE burst, every other class that has that ability in toolkit got nerfed for HD or isn't present in Archetypes.

 

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12 minutes ago, Blindreaper said:

Even though Yumx is exeptional player, and him playing Archmage makes that class look extremely OP, how many other classes in HD Archetypes have single target Execution power combined with really high AoE burst, every other class that has that ability in toolkit got nerfed for HD or isn't present in Archetypes.

 

The only one that comes to mind is the Vindicator, which is a damn site easier to play than the Archmage, as such it would probably be as oppressive, if not more so than Wardens are currently.

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You really glossed over the NO DEFENSIVE SKILLS there OP.

Mana shield, esp as it is now, is no substitute for an actual defense.

Having an on proc hard CC (or very slow hardcast) as their only utility means they're also not high in the utility dept.

So yes, the glass cannon does DPS.

News at 11.

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hah. nice topic. but lets speak about real problems instead of rare classes which required some brain to play and a really decent support healers?

why no one mentioned about other archetypes every1 rolled with?

what about warden? tank class with ridiculous amount of hard CC who are the main damage dealer for more than 6 month already in every single aspect of this game? why no1 call it to nerf? why ACE even include this in HD list?

ACE did not add full holy dmg classes to the HD (vindi, radicals)? wanna see 1k pure dmg LMB to 5 targets melee comps or 3k executes/parry. why they restrict those "funny and balanced" promos?

who da hell need a pitfighter or slayer in their team? they have zero utility for a team. etc etc.

what about classes with multiple ultimates (aka pdm monsters) on top of other classes which have 1000sp cost ults which root you in place? I really like to execute druid who can't move during ultimate. there are alot of other examples I could list which are a gamekillers in terms of balance.

 

btwthis tournament is a joke. how many competitive teams community can bring atm? 3-4? may be 5? good luck

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: rangefall

Discord makkon#8550

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So is this just a prob in HD or live.  Sounds like most comments are about HD.  

If it's live, then to counter a AM wouldn't you just have some type of elemental and ice defense built in more?  

I think is has more to do with skill then needing a nerf.  There are ways to counter it, if you wanna, unlike holy damage.  I am sure there are some real good builds on other classes that would shred the AM. (also depending on who was playing what).  I bet a noob on an AM will die pretty quick to a vet on something else.

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Unsurprisingly I got a lot of whataboutism. No actual rebuttals to anything I said. And the community wonders why the game doesn't get the changes it needs.

 

9 hours ago, ComradeAma said:

+1 for nerfing Yumx.

Than you can finally look at Warden, who has more mitigation, more damage, more mobility and better Ult than AM and mass heal block+stun with the radius of golf field on top of that.

Warden has more sustained damage but burst damage kills people and AM burst is 5x warden. Entire hunger dome groups can be deleted by chaos orb shatter storm combos in maybe 2-3 seconds. As for the mitigations... kinda irrelevant when melee cant even get to you as you are your own peeler with no cool down knock downs and 60% uptime slows.

8 hours ago, Wilbur said:

The only one that comes to mind is the Vindicator, which is a damn site easier to play than the Archmage, as such it would probably be as oppressive, if not more so than Wardens are currently.

Shockingly in Crowfall, and life, two things can be true at once. I have complained many time about vindicator, go to the feedback threads from earlier this month. Damnation is a joke. It can however be kited. Meaning there is counter play even if its minimal. No such thing exists when fighting an Archmage.

 

10 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I agree, nerf Yumx.. I mean Archmages.

+1

 

6 hours ago, DarnHippy said:

So is this just a prob in HD or live.  Sounds like most comments are about HD.  

If it's live, then to counter a AM wouldn't you just have some type of elemental and ice defense built in more?  

I think is has more to do with skill then needing a nerf.  There are ways to counter it, if you wanna, unlike holy damage.  I am sure there are some real good builds on other classes that would shred the AM. (also depending on who was playing what).  I bet a noob on an AM will die pretty quick to a vet on something else.

Like all classes in this game Archmages do True damage 100% of the time. There is no mitigating damage in crowfall.

 

7 hours ago, Van_Zant said:

You really glossed over the NO DEFENSIVE SKILLS there OP.

Mana shield, esp as it is now, is no substitute for an actual defense.

Having an on proc hard CC (or very slow hardcast) as their only utility means they're also not high in the utility dept.

So yes, the glass cannon does DPS.

News at 11.

I think you are confusing concise for glossed over. I mentioned this already. You don't need to many defensives when melee classes are unable to hit you. Try hitting an Archmage with a melee class. If you manage 20% uptime during the fight I would be impressed. Its likely closer to 10%. And ranged classes can be line of sighted. Also you know they can weave the knockdown Ice and spam it right?

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22 minutes ago, Balathan said:

I think you are confusing concise for glossed over. I mentioned this already. You don't need to many defensives when melee classes are unable to hit you. Try hitting an Archmage with a melee class. If you manage 20% uptime during the fight I would be impressed. Its likely closer to 10%. And ranged classes can be line of sighted. Also you know they can weave the knockdown Ice and spam it right?

Cant say about the rest as I dont really got many fights against casters as I mostly roam off hours but that part is a fact. A lot of people dont give ranged the proper weight, ranged shouldnt ever be doing the same damage as melee. It is ridiculous they have CC, range and damage. It is the reason Bow Warden can ignore the class bonuses and spamming basically 2 powers be better than its melee counterpart.

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2 hours ago, Balathan said:

I think you are confusing concise for glossed over. I mentioned this already. You don't need to many defensives when melee classes are unable to hit you. Try hitting an Archmage with a melee class. If you manage 20% uptime during the fight I would be impressed. Its likely closer to 10%. And ranged classes can be line of sighted. Also you know they can weave the knockdown Ice and spam it right?

I am definitely not confused.

AM are shockingly easy to kill and under pressure have no escape besides dodging and the usual anti-CC everyone gets, spamming their Ult and Ret.

This all reads like you died to an AM a couple of times doing predictable things, they cannot infinitely spam any ice and the knockdown one (Frigid for reference) only knocks you down if you run into it TWICE.

You need to sit and have a think about your build and tactics if you plan to play a melee that hunts ranged.  Did you build for the mobility to account for their advantage?  Are you using the terrain?  Knowing they have an execute, are you resetting/bandaging before that spot when you don't have your own killshot lined up?

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33 minutes ago, Van_Zant said:

I am definitely not confused.

AM are shockingly easy to kill and under pressure have no escape besides dodging and the usual anti-CC everyone gets, spamming their Ult and Ret.

This all reads like you died to an AM a couple of times doing predictable things, they cannot infinitely spam any ice and the knockdown one (Frigid for reference) only knocks you down if you run into it TWICE.

You need to sit and have a think about your build and tactics if you plan to play a melee that hunts ranged.  Did you build for the mobility to account for their advantage?  Are you using the terrain?  Knowing they have an execute, are you resetting/bandaging before that spot when you don't have your own killshot lined up?

... You have played Crowfall before right? With the amount of CC in this game I can have all the mobility I want to have it wont matter. CC in this game is out of control. Try chasing ANY ranged class as a melee. They just CC you and move. All melee CC abilities are done from melee range. Good luck getting there to try and lock down a kill. If you manage to do so I hope it was quick because there is 22 seconds between the ultimate damage reduction from their ult dropping and another ult being up. You have incredibly small windows to get to them and set up a burst requiring multiple people who are eating more CC then should ever be in a video game. This doesnt even account for the 2 healer ults that can and will be used to save them should they some how misplay enough to require them. You must be a ranged player XD

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So your whole thesis is now based on not being able to kill a ranged dps, strictly as the only melee person on them when they're supported by, not one, but TWO theoretical healer ults?

And you, the lone weary melee who has no support, no debuffs, and no assistance don't win that fight every time... because Archmage is OP?

Mmmmmmmmmmk.

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28 minutes ago, Van_Zant said:

So your whole thesis is now based on not being able to kill a ranged dps, strictly as the only melee person on them when they're supported by, not one, but TWO theoretical healer ults?

And you, the lone weary melee who has no support, no debuffs, and no assistance don't win that fight every time... because Archmage is OP?

Mmmmmmmmmmk.

Groups have 2 healers in this game incase you have not played in a while. This issue here is not that you are unsupported it is that as a melee when you are CCed you must then close distance on the target, before you can do damage again. This is an issue that the ranged characters do not have to overcome thus they have far superior up time in combat. This means that when they have competitive damage numbers to melee they will far out damage them. If damage is calculated as DPS * uptime on target the ranged classes will have far greater damage numbers as they have far greater uptime. Are you confused on my point or something? I'm not saying that AM numbers alone are the issue, the issue is the numbers + the CC + the fact they are ranged. They can kite and lose nearly no uptime on the target as they can turn and burn. If they were a melee class their damage would be acceptable.

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22 hours ago, DarnHippy said:

So is this just a prob in HD or live.  Sounds like most comments are about HD.  

If it's live, then to counter a AM wouldn't you just have some type of elemental and ice defense built in more?  

I think is has more to do with skill then needing a nerf.  There are ways to counter it, if you wanna, unlike holy damage.  I am sure there are some real good builds on other classes that would shred the AM. (also depending on who was playing what).  I bet a noob on an AM will die pretty quick to a vet on something else.

pretty sure the ice defence discipline is frostweaver only

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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2 hours ago, Yumx said:

Hey Balathan, interesting topic!

Is this experience based on playing against only my group, or every Archmage that you've met?

While yours is undoubtedly the best this applies to all Archmages. Their kiting is cheesy at best and abusive at worst. Just because you play it the best doesn't mean that as a whole its not an issue. Someone has yet to show me where I am wrong. As you play it the best, show me.

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As an Archetype is one of the best build out there aswell with the warden, but outside of it he s AOE dps is good but almost like evry dps, as single target is way below average. If you stan still in AOE is not a broken character , but you have to review how you handle a AM.
Is the squisher target in tha game, and one of the easier to counter just by standin outside of choke and grounded AOE.
The best char atm is Warden High dps, high CC and debuffs, and more tanky then a Tank.
In the other part the rest of builds r not the best, evryone is missing something. Execute ability should be on more character.
If you want to make some changes i suggest a buff at other builds and a nerf on the warden, AM is perfectly fine.
 

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