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Tiny Bits Of Info In This Interview


Anthrage
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Like I said, tiny bits of info, but:

 

-EK is like your homeland, Campaign Worlds are like countries you go on Crusade in, for limited durations each time, for the spoils of war

 

-The spoils you can take back home with you are limited in amount by  A ) whether you won, lost or knelt*,  B ) the Campaign's Export Rules and  C ) In cases of a less than 100% Export amount, a random roll. You can't choose which items to take, it is up to chance

 

-Their design and the economic game does seem to require both domains, the EKs and the Campaign Worlds - you can never set foot in one or the other if you want, but if you don't at least conduct some trade with someone who does, you will probably not be 100% effective

 

-No guild mechanics in the harshest Worlds, where the highest value loot is, the Dregs Ring. It's a complete FFA

 

-The Shadow Worlds will be most like the SB Ruleset

 

 

*Given that the Dregs do not have  Guilds, Factions or any of the 12 'God Armies', who would one Kneel to, if anyone, to determine the Export Percentage? O'm guessing it would be all or nothing, meaning not only would the gameplay in that world be harsh, but unless you are the single player who wins that Campaign, your time, loot wise, would be wasted if it isn't you

Edited by Anthrage
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Like I said, tiny bits of info, but:

 

-EK is like your homeland, Campaign Worlds are like countries you go on Crusade in, for limited durations each time, for the spoils of war

 

-The spoils you can take back home with you are limited in amount by  A ) whether you won, lost or knelt*,  B ) the Campaign's Export Rules and  C ) In cases of a less than 100% Export amount, a random roll. You can't choose which items to take, it is up to chance

 

-Their design and the economic game does seem to require both domains, the EKs and the Campaign Worlds - you can never set foot in one or the other if you want, but if you don't at least conduct some trade with someone who does, you will probably not be 100% effective

 

-No guild mechanics in the harshest Worlds, where the highest value loot is, the Dregs Ring. It's a complete FFA

 

-The Shadow Worlds will be most like the SB Ruleset

 

 

*Given that the Dregs do not have  Guilds, Factions or any of the 12 'God Armies', who would one Kneel to, if anyone, to determine the Export Percentage? O'm guessing it would be all or nothing, meaning not only would the gameplay in that world be harsh, but unless you are the single player who wins that Campaign, your time, loot wise, would be wasted if it isn't you

 

 

So victory conditions/points in the the dregs are all based on indivudual achievements?  Would have to see an example to really understand it, but my first impression is that this is very difficult to design well, and won't attract many players?

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Hey Silk, good to see you.

 

Yeah, we don't really know for sure, but it definitely seems like the FFA ruleset means no guild mechanics in-game, and win conditions are on an individual basis. A lot of people have expressed interest in that, and the Dregs is where you need to go for the highest quality loot, but I prefer the SB-style GvG ruleset of the Shadow Worlds myself. I'll probably have most of my characters in the Shadow for longer duration campaigns, and reserve 1 very self-sufficient character for running the Dregs in what would hopefully be shorter duration campaigns. A 3 month FFA Campaign does not sound appealing.

Edited by Anthrage
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-No guild mechanics in the harshest Worlds, where the highest value loot is, the Dregs Ring. It's a complete FFA

 

 

I, personally, absolutely hate that...

 

 

I'm feeling more and more that I belong to the group this game isn't for.

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I have to say I don't understand that feeling, and you're not alone in having it. ArtCraft have come up with a system where everyone can find a World that suits their tastes, the game should be for every group. You don't like any of provided the rulesets?

 

I, personally, absolutely hate that...

 

 

I'm feeling more and more that I belong to the group this game isn't for.

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Presumably there are still grouping mechanics in the dregs, but you've hit my concern square on the head.  If the dregs are designed around individual performance, then you risk making many character archetypes disadvantaged or irrelevant altogether, or you end up in a situation where a "guild" has to work together to make 1 character accomplish most/everything to gain points.  Will sieges be worth it, even be possible, on a ruleset where only 1 person gets rewarded?  Will they revolve around smaller objectives, something silly like stealing another persons tent/cottage for example?  Can you still have meaningful large scale combat, and if you do then doesn't it just become a glorified GvG server where 1 person gets all the credit, and guilds still get greater rewards?  Or, is it just an endless gankfest around certain objectives?  We don't know enough obviously, but I haven't been able to think of a scenario yet where I'd want to waste a char slot on dregs, versus the GVG campaigns.

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Hmm, guess I'm happy I didn't kickstarter.  Each additional update gets worse and worse.  It sounds like they're trying to cater to everyone?  How is that play2crush in the slightest?  Games with rulesets all over the place generally just end up with players taking the easiest route.  What's the difference between playing some SB emulator or playing some low pop server that has a butchered version of shadowbanes ruleset?  The removal of team based combat (healers, RPG elements replaced with twitch, etc) was bad enough.

 

It's also disappointing to see them mention (elsewhere) that moving between campaigns basically isn't intended.  It's not really even interserver travel, like they sold that concept to be.  If you could at least move your guild from campaign to campaign to beat down a guild you don't like, that's one thing.  But if you just get chars locked into some campaign, and moving a char is equivalent to rerolling it, what's the point of that too?

 

So basically we get shadowbane with no solo players (they're in dregs), no carebears like dragonscale (they're in EK), no people interested in crafting (they're in some easy campaign), and just the same few guilds that played 10 years ago and get bored/owned and quit within a month & wait for the next campaign wipe (because they know it's coming)?  Then on top of that we're forced into a deathmatch to get points?  I don't see how the politics will be interesting when it's forced politics.  You HAVE to politic since it's not about "existing" and making compromises, but now about WINNING and getting victory points - whoever builds the better zerg will do better.

 

Since I'm ranting at this point, how do they really think the campaign thing will fix the game?  Do they not realize it's even more zerg friendly?  Literally, the same zerg can just win every campaign it does, and now also not "implode out of boredom", because they get a fresh chance to dominate everyone else after a wipe.  poorly made socks, they can even get fresh recruits with every campaign.  How will that be fun?  Why will people even care enough to build a counter zerg, when nothing is really on the line to begin with?  Or are they just banking on that people care so little about the game that no one will put the effort to build and maintain a massive alliance, and just hooligan around dueling in the dregs?

Edited by frobobo
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-No guild mechanics in the harshest Worlds, where the highest value loot is, the Dregs Ring. It's a complete FFA

 

I hope that is an oversimplification.

 

I want guilds to exist in the Dregs, but with an open FFA ruleset so individuals have the freedom to betray each other.

 

Shadowbane has open FFA PvP but that doesn't mean there are no guild mechanics.  There is a huge difference between "unrestricted FFA PvP" and "no guild mechanics."

Edited by jah

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I agree with some of your points and don't with others/ You might be right overall, hopefully will have all the information we need to know for sure soon.

 

I am not so much concerned about being forced into a Campaign, or being zerged. It doesn't sound like each Ring will have only 1 World active at a time per ruleset. I don't expect there will be any real issue with not having a place to play that isn't 'broken'.

 

What changes would you suggest to avoid the kinds of problems that inevitably result, even with SB's system? They are still deep in development, if their architecture is really flawed, and it can be demonstrated with alternatives proposed, I'm pretty sure they would address it.

 

 

So basically we get shadowbane with no solo players (they're in dregs), no carebears like dragonscale (they're in EK), no people interested in crafting (they're in some easy campaign), and just the same few guilds that played 10 years ago and get bored/owned and quit within a month & wait for the next campaign wipe (because they know it's coming)?  Then on top of that we're forced into a deathmatch to get points?  I don't see how the politics will be interesting when it's forced politics.  You HAVE to politic since it's not about "existing" and making compromises, but now about WINNING and getting victory points - whoever builds the better zerg will do better.

 

 

 

How does that impact your ability to experience the kind of gameplay you enjoy? What is the difference between you 100% enjoying Shadow World gameplay while some carebear enjoys EK mechanics, with neither of you having to deal with the other, and you enjoying SB while someone else enjoys Wow? I honestly don't see why we would care as long as we get what we want.

 

I'm just feeling like they're pulling more and more of these stunts.

 

Guess I hoped for something different, when I initially read their "manifesto" on play2crush.com

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I hope that is an oversimplification.

 

I want guilds to exist in the Dregs, but with an open FFA ruleset so individuals have the freedom to betray each other.

 

Shadowbane has open FFA PvP but that doesn't mean there are no guild mechanics.  There is a huge difference between "unrestricted FFA PvP" and "no guild mechanics."

 

Yes, we don't know for sure what they mean by FFA. I made this assumption based on some things Ace said, including that the Shadow Worlds are the closest to SB's way of doing things. If that is true, then the Dregs must be something significantly different from just SB's FFA PvP.

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I don't think there's a problem at all with catering to lots of playstyles through different rulesets, and I think that it will be very apparent which rulesets people like and which are less popular.  Its just that we need a lot more details on how it all will work out to start answering the more specific questions, like will it make sense you use all your char slots on a single campaign, or save one or two for other places, etc etc.  Clearly, most of the SB community is looking closest at the GVG campaigns, but until we know more about character progressions and combat mechanics, it will be hard to know if I'll need several characters in the GVG realm so I can be part of several spec groups, as well as have a crafter, or if I can focus on just one character in my main campaign, and dabble with the others elsewhere.

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How does that impact your ability to experience the kind of gameplay you enjoy? What is the difference between you 100% enjoying Shadow World gameplay while some carebear enjoys EK mechanics, with neither of you having to deal with the other, and you enjoying SB while someone else enjoys Wow? I honestly don't see why we would care as long as we get what we want.

 

I agree completely...

but it doesn't seem like I'll get what I want atm :)

that's all

 

there's still a lot to reveal on their part. But on a few of their "issues" I don't like the direction they're heading.

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