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Can we get a faction campaign? (An argument for it)


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20 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I counter that people just dont like the base game. period. Until ace goes back to original design or back to redesign nothing will help. not HD, not dregs, not factions, not any of the rulesets they have put forward in the past and not taken hold. 

I don't think its an either/or thing. Lack of factions and the flaws/bugs in the core gameplay are overlapping issues.

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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13 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Lack of factions and the flaws/bugs in the core gameplay are overlapping issues.

Flaws in the core gameplay have been compounded over time with evermore bad decisions from the dev team. I swear this would be a very effective training tool on what NOT to do developing a game.

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The issue at the moment is they changed mechanics for the how to build the keeps and gather the resources. it would b every unfortunate if a new player not knowing was hoarding mats from the forts, or wasted a lot of gold building buildings that aren’t really useful.

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2 hours ago, mystafyi said:

I counter that people just dont like the base game. period. Until ace goes back to original design or back to redesign nothing will help. not HD, not dregs, not factions, not any of the rulesets they have put forward in the past and not taken hold. 

The roadmap has a good deal of features that would improve the overall game experience, but those could take months/years to complete.

What would they go back to or redesign at this point? Not sure what "original" features (not vague concepts) could be implemented easily now that would make the game more enjoyable just because they exist.

Seems like the game's future relies on a healthy population at launch and convincing players to stick around until more content/features are available. Typically this doesn't go well for AAA games so very skeptical about this one. 

 


 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, APE said:

Seems like the game's future relies on a healthy population at launch and convincing players to stick around until more content/features are available. Typically this doesn't go well for AAA games so very skeptical about this one. 

Thats just an excuse players that are invested into the game use. Its been the defacto explanation why so many systems in crowfall just dont work correctly for years(half a decade to be exact). Eventually one has to admit that there must be other issues

Edited by mystafyi
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I support this, but my viewpoint comes from what I expect of an MMO and the perception this game gave me starting and now leveling up.

The game lobby shouldn't be this game's main hub, were one chooses what mode they will play, be it the random tutorial separated from everything else, then infected, then dreggs and lastly the battle royale. By doing all of this you are essentially dividing your entire playerbase, from a very niche game into 4 separate "modes" basically. Ignoring MMO 101 of having a big hub were starting and veteran players can meet each other, so instead of showing a big world were people can find others to play, you are basically playing a multiplayer game were you log and choose to join either infected, dregs or br, like choosing team deathmatch, objectives or free4all.

I hope keeping this divition works as a placeholder to test each system, but this all could very well be implemented to stay separate, but with a big hub to then choose which mode to go, or make infected this hub and dregs as other zones, this has been done already by many games it's nothing new or revolutionary, by games that share the same niche this one does. Keep GvG the end game, that is very fine, this is what we want but not to the point that GvG keeps people out of infected and meeting newbies. Have your new players log in to see the veteran ones and be impressed.

Which btw the battle royale won't do.

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3 hours ago, mystafyi said:

Thats just an excuse players that are invested into the game use. Its been the defacto explanation why so many systems in crowfall just dont work correctly for years(half a decade to be exact). Eventually one has to admit that there must be other issues

Using "everyone is waiting for launch" has an expiration date and it is fast approaching. Either people will play or not. Although it will likely switch back to "everyone is waiting for XYZ update" post launch.

I could be mistaken and a lot will show up at launch, but I'll be surprised be it the initial pop or being able to sustain after the honeymoon period.

ACE has presented their plans, none of which is redesign or going backwards. I believe all the roadmap is necessary sooner then later, but this team isn't likely going to crunch it all quickly. If all of it is done decently, it might be something I'd play, but no way to know.

I assume ACE is going to see how launch goes, continue with their roadmap, and adjust as needed. A few critical opinions aren't going to change things when the same folks continue to log in. Doesn't seem like they are concerned with the population nor critical feedback, even when it's from active players enjoying the game.

Just don't see them making any drastic changes until at least post launch when the hidden niche population is finally revealed. Until then it's going to be more of the same which hasn't changed for years. 99% of the feedback that many of us spew be it positive or critical isn't going to change anything in the meantime.

 


 

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I’ve only been playing a couple of weeks very casually, so take my opinion with the amount of salt you feel is appropriate. 
 

I think a faction campaign would be a good idea but I think it would be a lot more work than some are thinking. I’ve been struck by how many people hit 30 in infected and ask what to do now, are given suggestions (pvp in sky point, join a guild, etc.), and respond with “lol nope bye poorly made dergs game”. In general hardcore players of pvp sandbox mmos seem to overrate the self motivation of the average player. Lots of people just want to chase the carrot dangling from the stick. This is true even in GvG settings where the guild leader is the one dangling the carrot. In a FvFvF setting that carrot has to get dangled by automated game systems (reputation, quests, achievements, events, leaderboards, etc.).  I think a real take on a faction campaign has to add in those systems, because I see the primary value of that campaign is to help retain random unguided casual players. If moon faction owns a keep, who spends their time running pigs to get the building materials to build the walls? The game needs to personally reward playing the objectives. The game needs to try to build a sense of camaraderie between the members that would have been built in discord in a guild. The faction game just needs to lead people around more.

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8 hours ago, APE said:

Using "everyone is waiting for launch" has an expiration date and it is fast approaching. Either people will play or not. Although it will likely switch back to "everyone is waiting for XYZ update" post launch.

I could be mistaken and a lot will show up at launch, but I'll be surprised be it the initial pop or being able to sustain after the honeymoon period.

ACE has presented their plans, none of which is redesign or going backwards. I believe all the roadmap is necessary sooner then later, but this team isn't likely going to crunch it all quickly. If all of it is done decently, it might be something I'd play, but no way to know.

I assume ACE is going to see how launch goes, continue with their roadmap, and adjust as needed. A few critical opinions aren't going to change things when the same folks continue to log in. Doesn't seem like they are concerned with the population nor critical feedback, even when it's from active players enjoying the game.

Just don't see them making any drastic changes until at least post launch when the hidden niche population is finally revealed. Until then it's going to be more of the same which hasn't changed for years. 99% of the feedback that many of us spew be it positive or critical isn't going to change anything in the meantime.

It's my opinion that a lot of folks WILL show up for launch. I also expect few of them to continue playing for more than a month (that's the way it is in most MMO launches. If you still have 30% or more of the launch crowd still active after 30 days, it's probably a hit!).

ACE doesn't seem to be much interested in what people SAY about this game here on the forums, or on discord, or on the internet.  They have received some very good feedback on how to make the game better and have ignored most of it.  They should care more about what people DO than what they say. ACE is a business, they need to make money, if people are spending money on the game, even while they complain, ACE wins.  If people are NOT spending money, even if they say nice things about the game... ACE loses.

So, it isn't clear yet, if ACE SHOULD listen to the complaints / suggestions. But it will become clear soon after launch.

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2 hours ago, MacDeath said:

So, it isn't clear yet, if ACE SHOULD listen to the complaints / suggestions. But it will become clear soon after launch.

Hehehe so ace should not listen to their consumers, I wonder if that is partly why the player base is persistently tiny? 

BTW, ace financials do not indicate this great income stream from customer sales. most of their recent operating revenue comes from ppp grants and investor funds. One could argue that without corona, ace would have run out of money and closed. 

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1 minute ago, mystafyi said:

Hehehe so ace should not listen to their consumers, I wonder if that is partly why the player base is persistently tiny? 

BTW, ace financials do not indicate this great income stream from customer sales. most of their recent operating revenue comes from ppp grants and investor funds. One could argue that without corona, ace would have run out of money and closed. 

I didn't say that ACE shouldn't listen to the customers. I said it wasn't clear YET if it was better to pay attention to what players say, or what they do.

It's true that so far, ACE hasn't made much money from players, but that's not too surprising when the game hasn't launched yet.

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2 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

I said it wasn't clear YET if it was better to pay attention to what players say, or what they do.

I see. Problem is you cant sell a product to people that dislike the product even when trying it for FREE. Let that sink in, they dont even want to play it for free. 

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7 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I see. Problem is you cant sell a product to people that dislike the product even when trying it for FREE. Let that sink in, they dont even want to play it for free. 

It seems very bad to me also, that so few of the beta invitees want to play / test the game. BUT... That COULD just mean that most folks don't find a long pre Alpha, Alpha, Beta fun.

Some of those folks will play at launch. How many? Who knows? I sure don't know.

ACE may have done exit surveys of folks who stopped playing (although I doubt it... None of my guildmates who've stopped playing have been surveyed). So, it's possible that ACE has some metrics that indicate that LOTS of folks are just waiting for launch to become active players.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

Some of those folks will play at launch. How many? Who knows? I sure don't know.

But we do know that if people wont play now for free, they sure wont pay to play in the future without major changes.

Fun fact, if crowfall launches in 2022, statistically 9% of backers will have died during the delays.

Edited by mystafyi
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On 5/1/2021 at 5:39 PM, veeshan said:

one problem with it when we had it last time a certain guild decided to roll alts on the other faction so when they get sieged they get there alts to jump onto the siege equipment so they cant be fired forcing the attacking side to throw many more siege equipment's down

There is no getting rid of this.  Do some research into EVE Online.  Corporations in that game will verify you with your IRL info because the concern of spies and sabotage is so high and it STILL doesn't stop it.  It sucks but I think people need to be realistic and accept that there are always going to be spies and saboteurs and the bigger your guild gets the more likely you have a few and don't know.

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