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What Is The Point Of An Amazing Koster Crafting System If Resources Are Random And Impossible To Export?

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The only issue I have with this importing and exporting is that if I get resources from a campaign and bring it to my Eternal Kingdom, what does it matter? Because every player gets an Eternal Kingdom and they are sort of private worlds. Yes other players can visit but what is the point then anyway? Oh now I can make a nice sword after that campaign, Not that it matters because noone visits my Eternal Kingdom and I can't take my sword on another campaign because the rule set doesn't allow it. ?

Just a thought :)

But, as it has been said many times, soloing while not impossible  would be very difficult.  If you can't take it with you in one rule set, there more than likely will be one you CAN take it to.    


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Let's assume we have a mechanic that locks a player to a character in a campaign (this prevents the concept of logging over to an alt crafter anytime you need something)

Do the crafters charge people in their guild or faction for equipment?  

Do they load up an armory with equipment for their team and the armory can be pulled from?

How much time do they spend building and reinforcing structures?

How much time do they spend in hostile territory looking for resources and materials?

Will anyone feel obligated to help them find these resources or materials?

How to impress upon the dedicated crafters in campaigns that they fill a valid role such as quartermaster rather than merchant? 

Is a merchant something that only exists in the EK and not the campaigns?

 

Chime in what you think!

Do you charge your guild for equipment? No - your first job as a crafter is to supply your guild.

 

Armory load up - if we have time.  We're heading into the Dregs.  The planetary ruleset is FFA PvP.  Not a lot of downtime to craft things in advance there. If we have the time then yes - build up stock

 

Time spent building - I have no idea.  This is impacted greatly by how long it takes to get mats and whether we wind up able to get them to the base or not.  Once we have them it's a matter of having time to build and not fight or make gear.

 

Time spent in hostile territory looking for mats.  A lot.  Both ourselves and our guild need to be out in groups scouring for material.  The quality of the material makes a difference - the type of material makes a difference.  Getting the best quality mats that are the right type is part of what will be needed to create gear that makes a difference in the fighting. 

 

Merchant vs. Quartermaster - I don't know of too many crafters that are thinking they'll be vendors on the campaign planets.  That's part of why not being able to craft much on the EK stings so much.  When we're on the planets IMO it's about keeping up with the demands of our guilds and getting mats. If we have things left over then it's iffy whether or not we want to actually SELL them to our enemies.  Perhaps a trade for extra gear we have for extra gear our alliance member has.

 

Merchant - EK or Campaign - I don't see merchants really existing anywhere at this point.  EK won't have a flow of resources and campaigns will have crafters pushing out gear and fortifications.  If extra items are crafted on the inner worlds the choice becomes to bring them back or bring back raw mats or resources.  Bear in mind - to win on the Dregs means 100% export.  To lose means 0% export.  That's the Dregs ruleset.   Even if that's changed it's only a percentage of the materials that will be brought back to the EK unless we win - and unless you're a PvP heavy guild that's not really going to happen. So there's no real healthy merchantile system at this point.

 

Thanks for posting.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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This is a great point you hit on.  I was going to ask the Gold and Glory guys if they would riff on it in their next Podcast. (You should check it out their show on twitch if you haven't) How do they think the relationship of crafters in the campaigns will play out?

 

Let's assume we have a mechanic that locks a player to a character in a campaign (this prevents the concept of logging over to an alt crafter anytime you need something)

Do the crafters charge people in their guild or faction for equipment?  

Do they load up an armory with equipment for their team and the armory can be pulled from?

How much time do they spend building and reinforcing structures?

How much time do they spend in hostile territory looking for resources and materials?

Will anyone feel obligated to help them find these resources or materials?

How to impress upon the dedicated crafters in campaigns that they fill a valid role such as quartermaster rather than merchant? 

Is a merchant something that only exists in the EK and not the campaigns?

 

Chime in what you think!

 

I personally intend on being a neutral arms dealer in whichever campaign is most beneficial to that play style. I like being the catalyst of chaos in game worlds.

 

Hopefully I'll be able to establish some kind of peaceful reputable area to do business even for enemies and the like. "The Continental" in the John Wick movie persay.

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whats stopping people from just staying in their own EK;s and trading resources from EK to EK thats what I mean, I am not debating solo vs group. I just feel EK's make the rest of the game feel less important. Atleast to me.


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This is a great point you hit on.  I was going to ask the Gold and Glory guys if they would riff on it in their next Podcast. (You should check it out their show on twitch if you haven't) How do they think the relationship of crafters in the campaigns will play out?

 

Let's assume we have a mechanic that locks a player to a character in a campaign (this prevents the concept of logging over to an alt crafter anytime you need something)

Do the crafters charge people in their guild or faction for equipment?  

Do they load up an armory with equipment for their team and the armory can be pulled from?

How much time do they spend building and reinforcing structures?

How much time do they spend in hostile territory looking for resources and materials?

Will anyone feel obligated to help them find these resources or materials?

How to impress upon the dedicated crafters in campaigns that they fill a valid role such as quartermaster rather than merchant? 

Is a merchant something that only exists in the EK and not the campaigns?

 

Chime in what you think!

 

If the guild members are actively assisting in the gathering of materials, or even helping the crafter by escorting him into dangerous territory (assuming the crafter is needed; maybe he harvests faster, carries more material, etc.), then I feel the crafter should not charge for his work.  If the fighters want to offer something for the service, that's fine.

 

If crafting in fact is a full-time profession in Crowfall, then a crafter should be expected to spend as much time crafting as a PvP'er spends fighting.  Conversely, the two should spend an equal amount of time assisting each other.  80/20 split for example.  If the fighter is going to help gather, the crafter should spend some time on the battlefield.

 

If crafters can store their wares in an armory for others to take when they need (guild bank essentially), rather than having to come to me every time, that's all I really need to know I've done my part.  Just be sure my name is on the item!  :D

 

I'm not sure how to impress upon the dedicated crafter the idea of a quartermaster, beyond a simple "I helped you, now you help me."  For myself, I just need to get out and hit somebody sometimes.  I couldn't solely craft in a game.  Maybe the idea of your previously safe town being attacked and destroyed, and your workstation being lost, would inspire someone to fight back.


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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whats stopping people from just staying in their own EK;s and trading resources from EK to EK thats what I mean, I am not debating solo vs group. I just feel EK's make the rest of the game feel less important. Atleast to me.

There will not be a lot of resources on the EK for the first year or so of the game.  See the export rules for winners and losers and it gets very clear very fast.  What resources there are in the EK will be held by the guilds that win the inner planets.

 

Which is kind of ironic when you think about it.  The guilds that win on the Dreg planets for the first part of the game's life are likely to be the more PvP oriented, SB style guilds.  They'll have resources to sell.

 

Everyone else will be broke.  Nothing to buy the resources with or trade with unless they get a lucky roll on the export.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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If the guild members are actively assisting in the gathering of materials, or even helping the crafter by escorting him into dangerous territory (assuming the crafter is needed; maybe he harvests faster, carries more material, etc.), then I feel the crafter should not charge for his work.  If the fighters want to offer something for the service, that's fine.

 

If crafting in fact is a full-time profession in Crowfall, then a crafter should be expected to spend as much time crafting as a PvP'er spends fighting.  Conversely, the two should spend an equal amount of time assisting each other.  80/20 split for example.  If the fighter is going to help gather, the crafter should spend some time on the battlefield.

 

If crafters can store their wares in an armory for others to take when they need (guild bank essentially), rather than having to come to me every time, that's all I really need to know I've done my part.  Just be sure my name is on the item!  :D

 

I'm not sure how to impress upon the dedicated crafter the idea of a quartermaster, beyond a simple "I helped you, now you help me."  For myself, I just need to get out and hit somebody sometimes.  I couldn't solely craft in a game.  Maybe the idea of your previously safe town being attacked and destroyed, and your workstation being lost, would inspire someone to fight back.

 

Love that answer, Ark!  That's a perfect way of looking at it.


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The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild. Welcome Home. Join us @ http://crowfall.shivtr.com

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It's definitely an interesting topic, we'd touched on it during one of the recent shows!  

 

If you are a master crafter of the highest order, whatever that will mean in Crowfall, do you even merchandise your wares and talents to players outside of your guild? 

 

Because, eventually, you're probably going to face them on another faction of one sort or another. Of course with decay and fuil-loot/item drop, it may not really make a difference.

 

It's sort of the reason pro sports teams rarely trade players to other teams in the same division -- it could come back to directly bite them in the arse!

 

I almost wonder if there's a "team" economy more than a "guild" economy that will develop. Different "captains" pick players they want to go into a given campaign with, etc. 


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If the guild members are actively assisting in the gathering of materials, or even helping the crafter by escorting him into dangerous territory (assuming the crafter is needed; maybe he harvests faster, carries more material, etc.), then I feel the crafter should not charge for his work.  If the fighters want to offer something for the service, that's fine.

 

If crafting in fact is a full-time profession in Crowfall, then a crafter should be expected to spend as much time crafting as a PvP'er spends fighting.  Conversely, the two should spend an equal amount of time assisting each other.  80/20 split for example.  If the fighter is going to help gather, the crafter should spend some time on the battlefield.

 

If crafters can store their wares in an armory for others to take when they need (guild bank essentially), rather than having to come to me every time, that's all I really need to know I've done my part.  Just be sure my name is on the item!  :D

 

I'm not sure how to impress upon the dedicated crafter the idea of a quartermaster, beyond a simple "I helped you, now you help me."  For myself, I just need to get out and hit somebody sometimes.  I couldn't solely craft in a game.  Maybe the idea of your previously safe town being attacked and destroyed, and your workstation being lost, would inspire someone to fight back.

 

100% agree crafters should be able to have some combat abilities, otherwise I just see people having a crafter alt that goes 90% unused. I mean min-maxers will do this anyway, but as long as they don't have a huge advantage its fine.

 

As far as the crafting system as a while goes, I'd like to see it be very scalable to the point where within 5 minutes of joining a campaign I could pick up some sticks and stones and make some really basic tools/weapons. All the way up to spending 3/4 of the campaign amassing high quality ore to mass produce top tier armor for my guild on our last push for the win.

 

And I'd be more concerned with the import rules than the export rules, obviously a guild that won the last campaign would have a huge advantage by being able to import top tier gear they made from the exported materials into the next campaign. Another issue I see is alts more alts = more imported gear.

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I'd be real cautious of locking characters/accounts into a campaign such that we cannot switch over to a crafter alt.  Aside from the implications of saying family sharing an account (dad + kids) cannot play the same campaign, unless you're a die-hard crafter type who doesn't mind crafting as your full-time job for 3, 6, or 12 months, that won't be fun.  I know of no one in my guild that wants to be stuck in that role.  

 

Now you might say that balances out crafters in that my guild would serve as muscle/bodyguard/resource controllers for the crafting types in exchange for gear at the proper rate.  That could be fine, but would be a bad experience for solo players.  Remember that in SB and GW2 and the like, solo players could join the "kingdom" (or server) and engage in all content with their fellow participants.  In CF, aside from faction/god war type stuff, that's not the case, which makes solo a lot more difficult, especially if you can't outfit yourself quickly and easily.  


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Haha I think you're going to be surprised when a member of those SB/EvE guilds has infiltrated your guild for over a year, become your friend, then totally destroys your guild  :)

I seem to have SB flashbacks.

 

Was hard to play with people for a month, only to burn down their cities in a couple of days.

I got so many hate mails that I just deleted my email account.

 

But it felt... I dont know. Like something closer to real than any other game.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Disagree fully.

 

You *have* to be able to be a crafter and not a PvPer if there is going to be anywhere near the depth of progression for either play style.

 

Likewise, you cannot also be the best PvPer and be a crafter - because it will mean forsaking some of your advantages/disciplines/stuff we don't know about. But it's clear there's going to be a tradeoff.

 

If someone is "spec'd" as a full crafter, they will not have fun in a PvP battle, and their team should not want them fighting in one.

I actually like the way the skill system is set up.

 

You can spend all your passive skills on crafting and still get a little bit of fighting skills from active.

Wont save you, but might ensure you can poke a bit of damage and have SOME defense if you get caught in a fight.

 

Of course, that means you have to go and fight a bit. Which would be best to do at the very very early stages of the game, when everyone is fresh.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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This is a great point you hit on.  I was going to ask the Gold and Glory guys if they would riff on it in their next Podcast. (You should check it out their show on twitch if you haven't) How do they think the relationship of crafters in the campaigns will play out?

 

Let's assume we have a mechanic that locks a player to a character in a campaign (this prevents the concept of logging over to an alt crafter anytime you need something)

Do the crafters charge people in their guild or faction for equipment?  

Do they load up an armory with equipment for their team and the armory can be pulled from?

How much time do they spend building and reinforcing structures?

How much time do they spend in hostile territory looking for resources and materials?

Will anyone feel obligated to help them find these resources or materials?

How to impress upon the dedicated crafters in campaigns that they fill a valid role such as quartermaster rather than merchant? 

Is a merchant something that only exists in the EK and not the campaigns?

 

Chime in what you think!

 

Hiya ThomasB!

 

Long read so I apologize in advance ;) My thoughts below:

  • Let's assume we have a mechanic that locks a player to a character in a campaign (this prevents the concept of logging over to an alt crafter anytime you need something)

I love this mechanic. IMO it actually plays on the importance of the crafter/Quartermaster role and raises that players value within their organization. A POI to guard and protect when 'in country'.

  • Do the crafters charge people in their guild or faction for equipment?

One of the things I loved about UO crafting was the ability for the crafter to put their name on the weapon or item being created. This served two purposes in game:

 

1. Since there is a good possibility that a weapon may fall into the hands of another player it essentially becomes the crafters 'business card' promoting the skill level of their goods (esp if the item was of good quality or a variant of a weapon or armor not seen before by that player). It will definitely encourage that player to reach out to the crafter directly to request/purchase goods. Now your building name recognition to the proof and quality of fighting equipment being provided by that player crafter/quartermaster. That alone will bring them not only payment for their services but an chance of getting rare or additional resources provided outside of his/her supply chain (guild and/or alliance). 

2. The crafter now has purpose and most importantly he becomes a vital part of any guild/nation. 

 

This should create a good amount of income for crafters and name buzz. Pricing structure should be easy for transactions within guild and alliance with a possibility of discount pricing based on the number of campaigns/excursions their guildies/alliance mates accompanied that crafter on. 

  • Do they load up an armory with equipment for their team and the armory can be pulled from?

YES - Crafters/Quartermasters should have some kind of central hub /shop or armory where they can showcase their goods.

 

One thing to consider -  The quality of equipment/armor/weapons should be of higher quality when created within a EK's. The crafters will be protected at home, have piece of mind and the ability to focus on the creation of  finer/exceptional pieces of equipment. This will vary greatly from what can be done 'in campaign'. in other words, equipment/weapons/armor crafted within a campaign should never be of higher quality then the equipment crafted in a EK due to the stress and unexpected variables that may play out during a campaign. 

 

Vendor shops /armory's may also help create foot traffic from visitors from other guilds/nations ( even opposing) to pay these individual EK's a visit to buy/sell/exchange goods and services. 

  • How much time do they spend building and reinforcing structures?

The quality of walls and structures and their ability to withstand punishment from either another player or siege weapon should be greatly effected by:

a. level of crafter/qtrmaster (new tier specialty...mason perhaps)

b. amount of resources available which will inevitable determine the quality and strength of the walls.  

  • How much time do they spend in hostile territory looking for resources and materials?

Let's say we promote risk / rewards here. The more time a crafter/quartermaster spends in country increases the chance of better resources found OR even recovered from maybe destroying items in game or salvaging items collected from a successful siege. May be a possibility of introducing a separate skill for crafters/qtrmasters  "Salvage". 

  • Will anyone feel obligated to help them find these resources or materials?

Yes - If they want to fight with a better selection weapon and/or equipment. Protect the guild POI.

  • How to impress upon the dedicated crafters in campaigns that they fill a valid role such as quartermaster rather than merchant?

Perhaps you may want to have the crafter tier out like the other archetypes. Example - You may start out as a crafter but now have avenues to become Quartermaster (campaign crafter/mobile vendor) or Mason (skill that helps greatly with the creation of walls and structures)

  • Is a merchant something that only exists in the EK and not the campaigns?

At the EK level - Definitely yes (foot traffic, building relations with other players...nothing but good stuff can happen at this level).

In campaign - Yes but should open up as a tier specialty imo.  

 

Let me know what you think. I'll check out that podcast!!

 

-R


The Balance - Nation of Equilibrium

"You can run but you'll DIE tired.."

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Haha I think you're going to be surprised when a member of those SB/EvE guilds has infiltrated your guild for over a year, become your friend, then totally destroys your guild  :)

You made me think of something closely related to crafting.

 

We had NO crafters. At ALL. (Well some messed around with it I am sure)

Everything we had, we took from the guilds we infiltrated. They GAVE us the equipment we needed to destroy them.

They put in so much effort and lost so much. We out in effort, but we really didn't have much to lose.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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I'd be real cautious of locking characters/accounts into a campaign such that we cannot switch over to a crafter alt.  Aside from the implications of saying family sharing an account (dad + kids) cannot play the same campaign, unless you're a die-hard crafter type who doesn't mind crafting as your full-time job for 3, 6, or 12 months, that won't be fun.  I know of no one in my guild that wants to be stuck in that role.  

 

Now you might say that balances out crafters in that my guild would serve as muscle/bodyguard/resource controllers for the crafting types in exchange for gear at the proper rate.  That could be fine, but would be a bad experience for solo players.  Remember that in SB and GW2 and the like, solo players could join the "kingdom" (or server) and engage in all content with their fellow participants.  In CF, aside from faction/god war type stuff, that's not the case, which makes solo a lot more difficult, especially if you can't outfit yourself quickly and easily.  

 

I actually feel the exact opposite.  I feel that players having the ability to have a crafting alt weakens the role of crafting players.  If a player wants to neglect crafting (In this case, a solo player), he should not be able to benefit from crafting unless he takes measures to join a group of players that have access to crafting.  Crowfall is a game about player interaction, where groups of players are empowered by being able to supplement each other's strengths and weaknesses.  If players that play alone all the time are just as effective as a group of players with specialized roles, it will remove all reasons for that player to interact with someone else, and that is not something I want to see.

 

I am more interested in players forming groups and communities, than enabling players who play alone to compete against groups of players.  A game of conquest can't be played alone, players should cooperate with each other if they hope to achieve in PvP.

 

That's my opinion.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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But seriously, those SB guilds talk a big game.  ...  I also think you believe your guild is all squishycore, and we're not, not even those that came from the Wiz101 ...  I actually find the thought that you think we can't compete insulting.  We are friendly to all types of play styles,.

 

That last sentence made me lol irl.

 

 

Haha I think you're going to be surprised when a member of those SB/EvE guilds has infiltrated your guild for over a year, become your friend, then totally destroys your guild  :)

 

 

haha I actually have 6 Beta accounts I plan on using for this.. they will never suspect spies in beta..

Edited by thenebrosity

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lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

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I actually feel the exact opposite.  I feel that players having the ability to have a crafting alt weakens the role of crafting players.  If a player wants to neglect crafting (In this case, a solo player), he should not be able to benefit from crafting unless he takes measures to join a group of players that have access to crafting.  Crowfall is a game about player interaction, where groups of players are empowered by being able to supplement each other's strengths and weaknesses.  If players that play alone all the time are just as effective as a group of players with specialized roles, it will remove all reasons for that player to interact with someone else, and that is not something I want to see.

 

I am more interested in players forming groups and communities, than enabling players who play alone to compete against groups of players.  A game of conquest can't be played alone, players should cooperate with each other if they hope to achieve in PvP.

 

That's my opinion.

 

Hm, I don't know. This sounds intriguing on the one hand, but on the other... What's the point of having alts then anyway if you can't play them in the same campaign? I mean I get the point why it could be cool but I think this would be better handled by another mechanic. So if you want to be an effective crafter, then you need to put some serious effort in it. Or you need to collect the materials with your crafting character in order to craft things. So you have at least the opportunity to play both sides of the game with some serious effort. But not being able to equip your alt if you like to actually PvP with it? Or having to PvP in another campaign and there having to rely on other crafters while you actually have one on your own? Sounds very meh to me.


"Kansas City Shuffle - When everybody looks right, you go left."

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Hm, I don't know. This sounds intriguing on the one hand, but on the other... What's the point of having alts then anyway if you can't play them in the same campaign? I mean I get the point why it could be cool but I think this would be better handled by another mechanic. So if you want to be an effective crafter, then you need to put some serious effort in it. Or you need to collect the materials with your crafting character in order to craft things. So you have at least the opportunity to play both sides of the game with some serious effort. But not being able to equip your alt if you like to actually PvP with it? Or having to PvP in another campaign and there having to rely on other crafters while you actually have one on your own? Sounds very meh to me.

 

Yeah, this is essentially a matter of opinion.  None of us is objectively right, we are simply opposites.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Yeah, this is essentially a matter of opinion.  None of us is objectively right, we are simply opposites.

True.


"Kansas City Shuffle - When everybody looks right, you go left."

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