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6.520.0 Live Bug Reports for 5/7/2021


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Update Notes,  and Legend for ACE feedback on Bugs reported

Please share any bugs you noticed while playing the game, these are objective issues with gameplay. Overall feedback or opinions on systems should be directed to Feedback

If you encounter disconnection problems, showstopper bugs, or any other issues preventing you from entering or playing the game, please send an email as well as your client logs* to support@crowfall.com. 

*Client logs can be found here: C:\Users\[username]\AppData\LocalLow\Art+Craft\Crowfall

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou are crunchy and go well with ketchup!

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Posted (edited)

Hey Tiggs,

Barracks of Our Own quest is bugged. We got ''Granite Boulder'' from NPC that we have to interact with sign to build barrack that at ? mark on compass. There is also a lot of people around me which stuck with this quest atm. We can't interact with Barrack sign anyways, tryed every corner that possible to interact but can't. Map, THE SUN TEMPLE(10 to 18) S19 location. Could you guys please look in to it?

Best Regards, Oguloruc8

Edited by Oguloruc8
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  • Crafting Thrall Power doesn't seem to work if you log into an EK parcel with the Valkyn Relic. You have to leave the parcel and enter it again to get it to apply properly

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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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After been eliminated from hd and quit the game our teammate cannot be invited to go on another HD and cannot connect to the last world (infected in this case) he was. 
He needs to log in dregs and come back to the lobby to resolve the problem. 

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05/07 - automated bug reporting tool (after game closes) hangs at 0% and does not progress.  Had to close, but I assume encountered bugs and submission were lost

05/08 - Barracks of Our Own quest.  Map, THE SUN TEMPLE(10 to 18) S19 location.  Upon completion, barracks is built, then immediately disappears.  Is this as intended?  Recommend character/quest flag for persistence in to environment to improve continuity and immersion if so.

General.  Seems to be a delay / lag in harvesting and UI info updates.  Specifically, when dismounting to harvest a node or immediately after killing a mob.  Could be packetloss and/or lag on my end, but had not observed previously.

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Posted (edited)

Feedback on stealth and it's effect on incoming new players in infected:

New players are funneled into infected and infected is where they will be for quite some time before dregs general.  It's the make or break point for a large % of players.  Currently infected is ruled by 1 vs 1 matchups which are almost exclusively stealth.  They gank farmers and harvesters and levelers and etc, which would be fine except for the fact that this is a riskless exercise for the stealthers and a frustrating exercise for any new players.  Even some very experienced players with twinked out characters like Zybak are farming people in infected...which seems like a waste of their time honestly to do the equivalent of going around kicking puppies.  These kind of experiences are quite harmful to the retention of new players regardless of whether it's a maxed out stealth class or just some normal person running around with greens.
The key issues:

1.  Stealth's get out of jail free ultimate is too powerful, too available, and whose few encounters will not only be extremely rare in infected but requires knowledge most infected players will not have. 

2. If you run into the rare player who actually has counters to you then you simply avoid them in the future and thus greatly mitigate their risk to you since their ability to detect you is far from unlimited and can be played around provided you see them before using your stealth ulti.  (IE instead of just stealthing using your CC + distance openers before stealthing can get you in safe stealthing range even if they jump you...especially if you can also break LOS).  So once you've learned the name/class of the few stealth hunters you have much more counterplay than them.  If you've waited until the last moment to stealth and have no time to adjust, that's actually a misplay on you part as stealth.

3. Stealth's get of of jail free ultimate completely counters all dots and dot focused builds.  I realize this is to prevent dots from auto-popping stealth, which is fair, but it also neuters the DPS of many classes which adds a good deal of free power budget to an already strong ultimate.

4. Stealth's get out of jail free ultimate gives them additional CC counters and has a pretty short cooldown and potentially 2 stacks.  So it's much easier for them to reach CC immunity

5. The counters to stealth like heads up and specific ranger/templar builds are far far less common than stealth itself and requires in depth knowledge of the game and direct counterbuilding that requires you to be weaker at alot of other things.  As such stealth tends to be infinitely more common than people with anti-stealth capability.  Comparing built in class abilities to very specific niche builds and saying "counters exist" seems a bit disingenuous because the commonality, practicality, and opportunity cost of those counters also matters.




Due to issues like the above and more the average experience of the average player vs stealth goes about like this:

1. The normal: Since timing is entirely in the hands of the stealth class usually the victim is jumped with multiple mobs on them or while stamina depleted in part or full by harvesting leaving the victim either heavily damaged already or unable to shake near as many CC (perhaps any) as normal.  At a severe disadvantage in a random build vs a 1 vs 1 specialist attacking them in a weak moment they easily die and feel helpless.  Repeated experiences deepen this feeling of helplessness.

2. The frustrated buttkicker: Same as before except the victim proves to be the stronger combatant despite their disadvantaged situation, They turn the tables on the stealth class and the stealth class uses their ultimate and runs away with no counterplay available for the victim.  Having been robbed of a hard won victory the former victim feels completely helpless as there is nothing they could have done to secure the kill.  Repeated experiences deepen this feeling of frustration.

Now for fairness let's put the incredibly rare but possible 3rd option on there:

3. Same as before but the victim not only turns the tables (must win the 1 vs 1) but also has a stealth revealing skill like heads up.  The stealth is now in a bad spot and can either potentially be killed or potentially escape depending on the matchup and the good play of each side.  This is the only scenario the stealther faces any risk of death and even in this scenario it's not guaranteed and with good play the assassin can get away a significant % of the time.  However stealth will regularly die in this situation because they have very little experience with this scenario since it's quite rare in infected. 



These kind of experiences is why I believe the game needs a "softer" stealth that is not an binary invisible vs visible and more soft counter to stealth.  Things like stealthers being able to see and target other stealthers (without auto revealing them) at close to moderate range.  That way there is alot more play and counterplay to stealth itself instead of a binary "did you have X niche thing?  No.  Then either you lose or dew, no win possible" vs entire classes.  I want players to stick around and feeling like you have agency in a fight is a big part of that.  "IF I did x better or Y I coulda won that".  But when you can have 3 players in an area unable to kill secure 1 that could kill any one of them easily with equal level gear...that does not make people feel good about the game's combat.

And to be entirely fair, these kind of changes may result in some stealth classes needing buffs and that's good too.  I want them dangerous, I want ganks to happen, I want some one sided victories in the game, but at the end of the day everyone who steps foot out there who can realistically kill other players needs to also be significantly risking death themselves.  I'm ok with pitfighters running around rarely dying and doing tickle damage to people...though there is prolly a conversation to be had about the upwards limits of survivability too :P.

Edited by Ralathar44
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4 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

Feedback on stealth and it's effect on incoming new players in infected:

New players are funneled into infected and infected is where they will be for quite some time before dregs general.  It's the make or break point for a large % of players.  Currently infected is ruled by 1 vs 1 matchups which are almost exclusively stealth.  They gank farmers and harvesters and levelers and etc, which would be fine except for the fact that this is a riskless exercise for the stealthers and a frustrating exercise for any new players.  Even some very experienced players with twinked out characters like Zybak are farming people in infected...which seems like a waste of their time honestly to do the equivalent of going around kicking puppies.  These kind of experiences are quite harmful to the retention of new players regardless of whether it's a maxed out stealth class or just some normal person running around with greens.
The key issues:

1.  Stealth's get out of jail free ultimate is too powerful, too available, and whose few encounters will not only be extremely rare in infected but requires knowledge most infected players will not have. 

2. If you run into the rare player who actually has counters to you then you simply avoid them in the future and thus greatly mitigate their risk to you since their ability to detect you is far from unlimited and can be played around provided you see them before using your stealth ulti.  (IE instead of just stealthing using your CC + distance openers before stealthing can get you in safe stealthing range even if they jump you...especially if you can also break LOS).  So once you've learned the name/class of the few stealth hunters you have much more counterplay than them.  If you've waited until the last moment to stealth and have no time to adjust, that's actually a misplay on you part as stealth.

3. Stealth's get of of jail free ultimate completely counters all dots and dot focused builds.  I realize this is to prevent dots from auto-popping stealth, which is fair, but it also neuters the DPS of many classes which adds a good deal of free power budget to an already strong ultimate.

4. Stealth's get out of jail free ultimate gives them additional CC counters and has a pretty short cooldown and potentially 2 stacks.  So it's much easier for them to reach CC immunity

5. The counters to stealth like heads up and specific ranger/templar builds are far far less common than stealth itself and requires in depth knowledge of the game and direct counterbuilding that requires you to be weaker at alot of other things.  As such stealth tends to be infinitely more common than people with anti-stealth capability.  Comparing built in class abilities to very specific niche builds and saying "counters exist" seems a bit disingenuous because the commonality, practicality, and opportunity cost of those counters also matters.




Due to issues like the above and more the average experience of the average player vs stealth goes about like this:

1. The normal: Since timing is entirely in the hands of the stealth class usually the victim is jumped with multiple mobs on them or while stamina depleted in part or full by harvesting leaving the victim either heavily damaged already or unable to shake near as many CC (perhaps any) as normal.  At a severe disadvantage in a random build vs a 1 vs 1 specialist attacking them in a weak moment they easily die and feel helpless.  Repeated experiences deepen this feeling of helplessness.

2. The frustrated buttkicker: Same as before except the victim proves to be the stronger combatant despite their disadvantaged situation, They turn the tables on the stealth class and the stealth class uses their ultimate and runs away with no counterplay available for the victim.  Having been robbed of a hard won victory the former victim feels completely helpless as there is nothing they could have done to secure the kill.  Repeated experiences deepen this feeling of frustration.

Now for fairness let's put the incredibly rare but possible 3rd option on there:

3. Same as before but the victim not only turns the tables (must win the 1 vs 1) but also has a stealth revealing skill like heads up.  The stealth is now in a bad spot and can either potentially be killed or potentially escape depending on the matchup and the good play of each side.  This is the only scenario the stealther faces any risk of death and even in this scenario it's not guaranteed and with good play the assassin can get away a significant % of the time.  However stealth will regularly die in this situation because they have very little experience with this scenario since it's quite rare in infected. 



These kind of experiences is why I believe the game needs a "softer" stealth that is not an binary invisible vs visible and more soft counter to stealth.  Things like stealthers being able to see and target other stealthers (without auto revealing them) at close to moderate range.  That way there is alot more play and counterplay to stealth itself instead of a binary "did you have X niche thing?  No.  Then either you lose or dew, no win possible" vs entire classes.  I want players to stick around and feeling like you have agency in a fight is a big part of that.  "IF I did x better or Y I coulda won that".  But when you can have 3 players in an area unable to kill secure 1 that could kill any one of them easily with equal level gear...that does not make people feel good about the game's combat.

And to be entirely fair, these kind of changes may result in some stealth classes needing buffs and that's good too.  I want them dangerous, I want ganks to happen, I want some one sided victories in the game, but at the end of the day everyone who steps foot out there who can realistically kill other players needs to also be significantly risking death themselves.  I'm ok with pitfighters running around rarely dying and doing tickle damage to people...though there is prolly a conversation to be had about the upwards limits of survivability too :P.

1 vs 1 it is very difficult for the harvester to win, BUT... you aren't required to go out there alone. Harvest in a group and you won't often be bothered by a ganker.

macdeath_sig.png

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4 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

Feedback on stealth and it's effect on incoming new players in infected:

New players are funneled into infected and infected is where they will be for quite some time before dregs general.  It's the make or break point for a large % of players.  Currently infected is ruled by 1 vs 1 matchups which are almost exclusively stealth.  They gank farmers and harvesters and levelers and etc, which would be fine except for the fact that this is a riskless exercise for the stealthers and a frustrating exercise for any new players.  Even some very experienced players with twinked out characters like Zybak are farming people in infected...which seems like a waste of their time honestly to do the equivalent of going around kicking puppies.  These kind of experiences are quite harmful to the retention of new players regardless of whether it's a maxed out stealth class or just some normal person running around with greens.
The key issues:

1.  Stealth's get out of jail free ultimate is too powerful, too available, and whose few encounters will not only be extremely rare in infected but requires knowledge most infected players will not have. 

2. If you run into the rare player who actually has counters to you then you simply avoid them in the future and thus greatly mitigate their risk to you since their ability to detect you is far from unlimited and can be played around provided you see them before using your stealth ulti.  (IE instead of just stealthing using your CC + distance openers before stealthing can get you in safe stealthing range even if they jump you...especially if you can also break LOS).  So once you've learned the name/class of the few stealth hunters you have much more counterplay than them.  If you've waited until the last moment to stealth and have no time to adjust, that's actually a misplay on you part as stealth.

3. Stealth's get of of jail free ultimate completely counters all dots and dot focused builds.  I realize this is to prevent dots from auto-popping stealth, which is fair, but it also neuters the DPS of many classes which adds a good deal of free power budget to an already strong ultimate.

4. Stealth's get out of jail free ultimate gives them additional CC counters and has a pretty short cooldown and potentially 2 stacks.  So it's much easier for them to reach CC immunity

5. The counters to stealth like heads up and specific ranger/templar builds are far far less common than stealth itself and requires in depth knowledge of the game and direct counterbuilding that requires you to be weaker at alot of other things.  As such stealth tends to be infinitely more common than people with anti-stealth capability.  Comparing built in class abilities to very specific niche builds and saying "counters exist" seems a bit disingenuous because the commonality, practicality, and opportunity cost of those counters also matters.




Due to issues like the above and more the average experience of the average player vs stealth goes about like this:

1. The normal: Since timing is entirely in the hands of the stealth class usually the victim is jumped with multiple mobs on them or while stamina depleted in part or full by harvesting leaving the victim either heavily damaged already or unable to shake near as many CC (perhaps any) as normal.  At a severe disadvantage in a random build vs a 1 vs 1 specialist attacking them in a weak moment they easily die and feel helpless.  Repeated experiences deepen this feeling of helplessness.

2. The frustrated buttkicker: Same as before except the victim proves to be the stronger combatant despite their disadvantaged situation, They turn the tables on the stealth class and the stealth class uses their ultimate and runs away with no counterplay available for the victim.  Having been robbed of a hard won victory the former victim feels completely helpless as there is nothing they could have done to secure the kill.  Repeated experiences deepen this feeling of frustration.

Now for fairness let's put the incredibly rare but possible 3rd option on there:

3. Same as before but the victim not only turns the tables (must win the 1 vs 1) but also has a stealth revealing skill like heads up.  The stealth is now in a bad spot and can either potentially be killed or potentially escape depending on the matchup and the good play of each side.  This is the only scenario the stealther faces any risk of death and even in this scenario it's not guaranteed and with good play the assassin can get away a significant % of the time.  However stealth will regularly die in this situation because they have very little experience with this scenario since it's quite rare in infected. 



These kind of experiences is why I believe the game needs a "softer" stealth that is not an binary invisible vs visible and more soft counter to stealth.  Things like stealthers being able to see and target other stealthers (without auto revealing them) at close to moderate range.  That way there is alot more play and counterplay to stealth itself instead of a binary "did you have X niche thing?  No.  Then either you lose or dew, no win possible" vs entire classes.  I want players to stick around and feeling like you have agency in a fight is a big part of that.  "IF I did x better or Y I coulda won that".  But when you can have 3 players in an area unable to kill secure 1 that could kill any one of them easily with equal level gear...that does not make people feel good about the game's combat.

And to be entirely fair, these kind of changes may result in some stealth classes needing buffs and that's good too.  I want them dangerous, I want ganks to happen, I want some one sided victories in the game, but at the end of the day everyone who steps foot out there who can realistically kill other players needs to also be significantly risking death themselves.  I'm ok with pitfighters running around rarely dying and doing tickle damage to people...though there is prolly a conversation to be had about the upwards limits of survivability too :P.

So much of this post is incorrect that I dont even know where to start.

First of all these is no get out of jail freecard, but you have to spec towards being anti-stealth, and even then you have to be skilled enough to know how to use anti-stealth, which is hhow it -should- be.  There are a whole race, a dedicated class -and- disciplines which can take stealthers out of stealth. You just dont want to spec into taking these disciplines - then that is your headache.

Secondly you see perfectly ok with classes that are visible but reign supreme cause they have an insane amount of self sustain - given to them so they can survive sieges and large scale.  Something which makes them super strong in small scale and 1v1 scenrios.  All the stealther can do is get away.  Above mentioned classes can just stay and clean up.  Get over it.

I would like to know though, since the assassin is reallybadin large scale PvP, and out of the “game” for extrende periods of time in thhose scenarios.  If they aren’t suppose to be useable in small scale - then what is their task?  

This whole rant you’re on is a Lrn2Play issue, where you dont want to sacrifice anything and still have more tools in your kit to counter yet another class.  

Yes I do play assassin.  Yes I do think they shhould be able to reset and get away - if their targets haven’t made a group, specced for antistealth, or brought a kit that can hold its own cause plenty of classes can - then it’s their own fault not the design nor power level.

 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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27 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

you have to spec towards being anti-stealth, and even then you have to be skilled enough to know how to use anti-stealth, which is hhow it -should- be.  There are a whole race, a dedicated class -and- disciplines which can take stealthers out of stealth. You just dont want to spec into taking these disciplines - then that is your headache.

Yes I do play assassin.  Yes I do think they shhould be able to reset and get away - if their targets haven’t made a group, specced for antistealth, or brought a kit that can hold its own cause plenty of classes can - then it’s their own fault not the design nor power level.

I think that says it all.  The victim have all these hoops to jump through just to potentially kill some baseline classes or even survive.  By your own words.  While those same stealth classes could use any not intentionally bad spec to potentially kill them.  Telling someone to bring more people to not die from 1 person is also not exactly a compelling balance argument.   A good practical argument perhaps, but a rather poor balance argument.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MacDeath said:

1 vs 1 it is very difficult for the harvester to win, BUT... you aren't required to go out there alone. Harvest in a group and you won't often be bothered by a ganker.

Surviving isn't winning, surviving is a draw and even if you're not a crafter a draw is the best that 95% of the builds in the game can hope for again a stealther.  95% of the builds in the game cannot win but can be killed by said stealther.  And not just that winning is difficult, literally cannot win without the proper counters unless the stealth is completely braindead or decides to stay and die. That is not balanced.  Balance is closer to "you'll never kill that pitfighter but he'll also never kill you."

Edited by Ralathar44
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This game isn't meant to be balanced 1v1, nor should it be. The focus of Crowfall is group vs group, guild vs guild. 

Yes, you CAN play it solo but you wont enjoy it much if you're a solo sheep going up against a solo wolf. 

You can adjust your playstyle much quicker than you will get ACE to rebalance the game to fit your seemingly preferred playstyle.

macdeath_sig.png

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

This game isn't meant to be balanced 1v1, nor should it be. The focus of Crowfall is group vs group, guild vs guild. 

Yes, you CAN play it solo but you wont enjoy it much if you're a solo sheep going up against a solo wolf. 

You can adjust your playstyle much quicker than you will get ACE to rebalance the game to fit your seemingly preferred playstyle.

OFC its not 1 vs 1 but the value of stealthers in groups and especially in large scale faction vs faction or Guild vs Guild combat is actually far greater than it is 1 vs 1 value.  The single most powerful thing a stealther can do actually does not involve combat.  It's intel.  They are the eyes and ears of your faction.  This determines innumerable amounts of battles and objectives.  Information is truly OP and the intel of a single person can actually completely change the flow and results of a 50 vs 50 faction fight.  Example: scout reports 3rd faction incoming from the east so you rotate your group around the enemy to ensure that THEY are the ones that get sandwiched.  That's information from one person that can completely change the outcome of a huge fight.  And stealthers re the only ones who can safely provide that information.  Such scenarios are common in populated 3+ faction combat.

Or maybe a 1-2 stealth behind enemy lines and deny them the nearest outposts, resulting in long trips back after death for the enemy.

And in terms of actual group vs group fighting they're still increasingly effective since they are great at key target elimination working together with their team in focus fire.  Their unexpected burst and CC when delivered with reasonable timing massacres healers, squishy DPS, and other high priority targets.  And if you get enough heat then you just disengage and all the aggro turned towards you is essentially mitigated damage to your team.  Stealth is provided copious engage and disengage tools (which are often directional not targeted and so can be used for both engage and disengage)

Edited by Ralathar44
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