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A proposed solution to the lack of an Auction House in CF


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@Ralathar44, I hope you appreciate that you're arguing the exact same points that I am here. My only driving point is that it is inferior to spread vendors across many player worlds and then expect people to wait through 10, 20, 30 load screens to find one sword. You are arguing for a specific solution in the form of a centralized market explorer. I am not advocating for any particular solution.

4 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

I don't think EKs are mutually exclusive to having a shared world hub.  In fact don't we already have that?  We have both the free city and the current God's Reach throws all factions into the same hub.

I did not try to imply that it was mutually exclusive. Free cities are available in campaign world, and outside of them we have God's Reach. What's available to do in God's Reach is: bank, interact with NPC vendors, craft, and grief newbies. EKs are a better option for crafting because of available buffs and they can support the other activities besides ganking newbies. Maybe if there was a free city in god's reach it would be different, but there needs to be some draw to the hub that isn't ganking newbies. You definitely feel the effects of having nowhere to go other God's Reach when Dregs goes down and geared out players run amok in skypoint.

It is somewhat beside the point at hand, but I do think that it is likely suboptimal for the game to encourage players to spread out into the EKs as much as it does. There is a trade off to allowing any individual player to open a public market in their EK, and it's population density in any one space. The reason I think this is negative is that it makes the game world on the whole feel very empty and lifeless. EKs themselves feel like this now because they rarely have more than handful of static vendors and ~3 players, regardless of how much time you spend prettying up your buildings. Maybe this would be different if personal kingdoms were private+friends and only guild kingdoms could be public? Maybe this would be different if there was a persistent, shared hub space outside of campaigns that anyone cared to go to? Maybe it would be different if EKs were grouped/connected into world servers like DAOCs housing was? I don't know, but hanging out in empty EKs feels bad man.

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9 hours ago, Svenn said:

One thing that I think many people are missing is the personal aspect of player vendors versus an AH. This is one of the things that made SWG crafting/economy stand out. Players will start to earn a reputation and you'll know certain crafters.

"Hey, I need a new sword, let me go to the AH"
versus
"Hey, I need a new sword... Bob had some great stuff last time so let me go check his shop and see what he's got."

It really allows crafters to make a name for themselves. That is far more interesting to me than an AH.

Those things are not mutually exclusive.

I don't see how it is any different buying from an AH or a Vendor. Neither is direct player to player trade. 

If there was an AH and someone purchased an item, they would see who made it. They could potentially seek them out for future work and or if possible search the AH for other items from that crafter.

Now if a crafter or trader is hanging out in an EK, near their stall, or zone directly trading that would be more like SWG, but as is with everything split behind loading screens, just because one game functioned a particular way, doesn't mean another will. 

It's about options, not what you or I personally prefer. There is zero reason why both couldn't work within this game.

 


 

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1 hour ago, APE said:

Now if a crafter or trader is hanging out in an EK, near their stall, or zone directly trading that would be more like SWG, but as is with everything split behind loading screens, just because one game functioned a particular way, doesn't mean another will. 

EKs are very much like the housing-based vendor systems in Ultima Online and SWG. They were the only MMOs I've played where the crafters were as famous as the best combat players. 

It's not that I think AH systems are bad (EVE is an amazing virtual space trading simulation), rather they create different gameplay opportunities and behaviors. IMO many of CF's systems fit better with no AH, it's a crafter- and community-centric design. CF is a strategy game where resources and supply are an important part of the competition, whether your guild is trying to win a Campaign or trying to build the most popular merchant EK.

What I would like to see is more QOL and features added to EK and Vendors, we're working with minimally viable tools at this point.

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51 minutes ago, miraluna said:

EKs are very much like the housing-based vendor systems in Ultima Online and SWG. They were the only MMOs I've played where the crafters were as famous as the best combat players. 

It's not that I think AH systems are bad (EVE is an amazing virtual space trading simulation), rather they create different gameplay opportunities and behaviors. IMO many of CF's systems fit better with no AH, it's a crafter- and community-centric design. CF is a strategy game where resources and supply are an important part of the competition, whether your guild is trying to win a Campaign or trying to build the most popular merchant EK.

What I would like to see is more QOL and features added to EK and Vendors, we're working with minimally viable tools at this point.

What tools would that be?

Would those tools make buying/selling more accessible?

IMO it looks like ACE is stacking it in favor of those that pay more as there is a fee to keep an EK open longer (not even all the time), the cost to build up an EK be it cash or play time, and the need to most likely work with numerous others to maintain an EK as a 1 or few player EK with a handful of vendors probably won't compete with a giant guild/alliance EK. Haven't checked in a while, but the archaic /commands for doing things in an EK is/was awful.

I totally understand why people enjoyed UO/SWG and such models. I also understand that those games operated differently in several different ways compared to Crowfall. Along with the time at which those games were at their peak and how gaming/society has changed since then. Back in late 90s I had no problem hanging around the trade tunnel or other areas in Everquest for hours on end chatting it up and lookin for particular items. My time is much more precious now along with how I want to spend it.

As I mentioned, an AH doesn't remove what made personal trading special in other games because unsurprisingly it still exists in games with AH. There are just more options in almost every other game that allow players to decide what works for them.

I don't see Crowfall as a crafter community centric game anymore then other games. Trading is a means to an end regardless of the way it is done. Albion Online is all player crafted (even mob drops) and it has great AH/market systems, also has guild warfare and logistics (full loot) to deal with, along with player trading to each other. The idea Crowfall is special because it lacks an AH doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe if EKs were actually "kingdoms" with large markets and lots of players buzzing around it would be more like older games, but as half baked personal housing on a larger scale, I just don't see it working well. Seems like a lot of resources would need to go into different tools and QOL improvements for what could be accomplished with a bare bones AH, universal search, or other expected features of MMOs.

Just find it odd that people want the non-existent economy tools and system to be difficult to navigate yet everything else about the game is dumbed down from combat, to PVE, to leveling/progression, etc. If the goal is to make this a "hardcore" or "old school" game where people have to work for everything, they missed the mark.

Edited by APE

 


 

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7 hours ago, Pystkeebler said:

I did not try to imply that it was mutually exclusive. Free cities are available in campaign world, and outside of them we have God's Reach. What's available to do in God's Reach is: bank, interact with NPC vendors, craft, and grief newbies. EKs are a better option for crafting because of available buffs and they can support the other activities besides ganking newbies. Maybe if there was a free city in god's reach it would be different, but there needs to be some draw to the hub that isn't ganking newbies. You definitely feel the effects of having nowhere to go other God's Reach when Dregs goes down and geared out players run amok in skypoint.

Aye, I've been arguing this for some time.  Either Dregs/Shadow (both) need to be permanent or they need to make Infected, now God's Reach, into a full proper Faction vs Faction ruleset.  The crafting in your EKs is supposed to be superseeded by keep upgrades, but since they arbitrarily block infected/god's reach from having that an unless you're in a mega guild or alliance you'll never keep an upgraded keep in dregs that's the only advanced crafting location available to most folks.

And honestly if dregs cannot compete with a fully fleshed and and formed Faction vs Faction server with full mechanic sand rarities (lets say shadow is implemented so people wont' use God's Reach as a red herring) then maybe people just don't like dregs as much as some folks try to push :P.  God's reach only works as a newbie ground when there are permanent options of full scale game worlds where the key progression mechanics are available to more than just The limited % of the population that controls upgraded keeps in dregs.

Until things change I'll be constantly headed to EK for both crafting buffs and storage.  Dregs ain't gonna solve that for a ton of folks.  So Faction vs Faction needs to fill the gap via Shadow ruleset where each of the 3 factions owning and upgrading a keep is not anything beyond reason.
 

Edited by Ralathar44
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You could do a tamriel trade centre site for crowfall. They would need to expose an API for folks to retrieve their wares and post to the site. Alternatively, someone could write application that attaches to the process and reads the memory structure that populates when you interact with a vendor (this option may violate ToS).  This data could then be pushed to the website.

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51 minutes ago, praelian said:

You could do a tamriel trade centre site for crowfall. They would need to expose an API for folks to retrieve their wares and post to the site. Alternatively, someone could write application that attaches to the process and reads the memory structure that populates when you interact with a vendor (this option may violate ToS).  This data could then be pushed to the website.

Someone who I will not name was actually hooking in to ACE's API for info (on skills and stuff to track patch changes) and they told him to knock it off. I don't think ACE is a big fan of external interactions with their database.

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