Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Dregs Individual Rewards suggestion


Recommended Posts

With the update to unlimited exports, the individual rewards were removed and for good reason.  Export tokens don't matter.  But a replacement is needed.  Having guilds bear the full burden of rewarding members for playing in a campaign can be a nightmare for leaders.  So here is my suggestion.

Make the random gear vendor token based.  Provide tokens as Individual rewards for Dregs categories (conquest, Divine Favors). 

Here is one idea how the tokens could work:

Give tokens a quality.  Green for 3rd, blue for 2nd, purple for 1st.  Using the token at the vendor provides a random piece of gear at the quality of the token.  Gear is still random and may not match your preferred class/spec.  Leaving open the need to still coordinate with others for trading or providing a revenue stream for players by selling the gear.  Gear should be war tribe level stats or slightly better but not crafted gear level.   

There are obviously other ways tokens could work with the vendor.  Could be class specific or could all provide the same quality gear but more tokens based on category/rank.  But the idea is make individual rewards meaningful and take some of the reward pressures off of the guild leadership. 

Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Maliknar said:

Thoughts?

I like the concept of using tokens as rewards to buy what you want from a vendor, rather than direct rewards. It was mentioned in a recent livestream that they now have the tech for vendors to use currency other than gold, so we may see some ideas like you posted happen in the future.

tiPrpwh.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a nice idea, also hand out some of those tokens to the guild leader too so he / she can show some appreciation to folks who fought extra hard or well leading to Victory.

Most of the current 'rewards' are dumb.

macdeath_sig.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its actually a good loop all around.

Put the token vendors in the temples from the start of the campaign. new players see it and go "oh what's this" *vendor has neat stuff they want* "Oh how do I get these tokens?" *driven to do cards*

Then you flag the tokens as no-export items so people can't cheese vendors by carrying tokens between campaigns, and just leave the campaigns running like a week after they end so everyone can turn in their tokens, trade tokens for guild contribution or spy deals, etc.

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think this is where unique cosmetic rewards or even re-used cosmetic rewards randomly form other campaigns (maybe a recolour version) where there are 3 pieces of gear and depending on what metric is being used to win something you can earn a token to buy 1 piece of the gear, if you do a full sweep then you don't have to choose.

I think the problem with rewarding gear is that if its wartribe level it will be trash pretty quickly, if its anything to unique or powerful then its breaking the competative power curve, and if its a resource of some sort then generally those rewards can be farmed quicker than the effort it is to attain the reward. I very much agree that individual rewards need to be in place.

 

Even better, i know @ZYBAK reccomnded a battle pass type thing a while ago and i wonder to help reward the daya to day and card achivment that it could be somethign like this:

You have a battle pass with a set of levels and XP to get from them
depending on where your guild places (top 50%, top 20%, top5%) per card as well as overall will give you xp a long that route, this battle pass type leveling can have both resource and cosmetic rewards a long it and the XP can be added for many different activities without having to change the rules of the actual competition and reward both the persuing of DF cards in every season as well as for an overall win and potentially add crafting/unique daily kills/captures from the scoreboard

P.S, you could even add in titles and ranks at certain points along the track!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Marklarr said:

i think this is where unique cosmetic rewards or even re-used cosmetic rewards randomly form other campaigns (maybe a recolour version) where there are 3 pieces of gear and depending on what metric is being used to win something you can earn a token to buy 1 piece of the gear, if you do a full sweep then you don't have to choose.

I think the problem with rewarding gear is that if its wartribe level it will be trash pretty quickly, if its anything to unique or powerful then its breaking the competative power curve, and if its a resource of some sort then generally those rewards can be farmed quicker than the effort it is to attain the reward. I very much agree that individual rewards need to be in place.

 

Even better, i know @ZYBAK reccomnded a battle pass type thing a while ago and i wonder to help reward the daya to day and card achivment that it could be somethign like this:

You have a battle pass with a set of levels and XP to get from them
depending on where your guild places (top 50%, top 20%, top5%) per card as well as overall will give you xp a long that route, this battle pass type leveling can have both resource and cosmetic rewards a long it and the XP can be added for many different activities without having to change the rules of the actual competition and reward both the persuing of DF cards in every season as well as for an overall win and potentially add crafting/unique daily kills/captures from the scoreboard

P.S, you could even add in titles and ranks at certain points along the track!

 

For me, Titles and Ranks are MUCH more valuable than cosmetics. I'll KILL fot T & R!

macdeath_sig.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, MacDeath said:

For me, Titles and Ranks are MUCH more valuable than cosmetics. I'll KILL fot T & R!

I mean for sure you can go whole hog with it to and attain different ttiles along the track along with other bits such as 
 

Soldier of <campaign name>
Warrior of <campaign name>
Captain of <campaign name>
Destroyer of <campaign name>
Champion of <campaign name>
Conqueror of <campaign name>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Marklarr said:

i think this is where unique cosmetic rewards or even re-used cosmetic rewards randomly form other campaigns (maybe a recolour version) where there are 3 pieces of gear and depending on what metric is being used to win something you can earn a token to buy 1 piece of the gear, if you do a full sweep then you don't have to choose.

I think the problem with rewarding gear is that if its wartribe level it will be trash pretty quickly, if its anything to unique or powerful then its breaking the competative power curve, and if its a resource of some sort then generally those rewards can be farmed quicker than the effort it is to attain the reward. I very much agree that individual rewards need to be in place.

 

Even better, i know @ZYBAK reccomnded a battle pass type thing a while ago and i wonder to help reward the daya to day and card achivment that it could be somethign like this:

You have a battle pass with a set of levels and XP to get from them
depending on where your guild places (top 50%, top 20%, top5%) per card as well as overall will give you xp a long that route, this battle pass type leveling can have both resource and cosmetic rewards a long it and the XP can be added for many different activities without having to change the rules of the actual competition and reward both the persuing of DF cards in every season as well as for an overall win and potentially add crafting/unique daily kills/captures from the scoreboard

P.S, you could even add in titles and ranks at certain points along the track!

 

The game doesn't need to adopt yet another overpriced garbage monetization scheme. We have cosmetic sales and we have a box price for single purchases. We have VIp for recurrent spending. We don't need to custard people out of rewards just because they didn't hand over their credit card. The design is already compromised enough with this whole optional sub with microtransactions system in stead of just having a sub.

You do the content, you get the reward, simple as that. None of this two tier "you did the same task but forgot to give us money so screw you" BS

Every game does not need to be an infinite money hole full of second class citizens.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, PopeUrban said:

The game doesn't need to adopt yet another overpriced garbage monetization scheme. We have cosmetic sales and we have a box price for single purchases. We have VIp for recurrent spending. We don't need to custard people out of rewards just because they didn't hand over their credit card.

You do the content, you get the reward, simple as that. None of this two tier "you did the same task but forgot to give us money so screw you" BS

the battle pass concept doe snot have to be monetized, its just an XP bar with rewards at certain points and because you can have a universal XP bar then the contribution can be from many places which is easier than earning a singular token from a singular thing.

At no point did i mention a second line for a monetized version on purpose because i agree, between box purchase and VIP, thats enough fast tracking of things that this does not have to part of. I only used the Battle pass anology as that is the concept of the contributive personal levelling/reward scale that most will be familiar with

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Marklarr said:

the battle pass concept doe snot have to be monetized, its just an XP bar with rewards at certain points and because you can have a universal XP bar then the contribution can be from many places which is easier than earning a singular token from a singular thing.

At no point did i mention a second line for a monetized version on purpose because i agree, between box purchase and VIP, thats enough fast tracking of things that this does not have to part of. I only used the Battle pass anology as that is the concept of the contributive personal levelling/reward scale that most will be familiar with

When you say "battle pass" you're bringing up a very specific thing and I'm not sure its the best term for what you're talking about here, which is essentially a reward track/achievement system. I'm not sure we actually need that either as we already have divine favor cards that say "do the thing, get the reward"

What you're describing seems to abstract it from the campaign in to a system that's more about speeding up or slowing down the pace of rewards rather than specifically earning them with a fixed task/campaign framework. Like "Well you could get thing A if you just flat out win a campaign OR get thing A if you place 20th in 5 campaigns" and honestly, I kind of hate that idea as it decouples campaign rewards from campaigns. Each campaign should be self contained from a reward standpoint. If you fail to do what's needed to earn the rewards in a campaign, you shouldn't get rewards in the campaign. Your participation prize is all the loot you got our of the campaign. We don't want to encourage people to try just a little for cards or scoring and stop. The goal of the campaign rewards is that they try as hard as they can every single campaign to get as much as they can. If you have a bar that just increments over N campaigns you break the urgency of that system and turn it in to just another long term farm.

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, PopeUrban said:

When you say "battle pass" you're bringing up a very specific thing and I'm not sure its the best term for what you're talking about here, which is essentially a reward track/achievement system. I'm not sure we actually need that either as we already have divine favor cards that say "do the thing, get the reward"

problem is the DF reward is abstract for the player at a persona level, the reward only goes to the guild leader, i agree batltle pass has too many monetized connotations to it.

These reward tracks would be Per campaign and unqiue to that campaign and the end rewards should be very hard to get unless your guild attains a very heavy full sweep win of domination and every who went in got loads of contribution towards it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Marklarr said:

problem is the DF reward is abstract for the player at a persona level, the reward only goes to the guild leader, i agree batltle pass has too many monetized connotations to it.

These reward tracks would be Per campaign and unqiue to that campaign and the end rewards should be very hard to get unless your guild attains a very heavy full sweep win of domination and every who went in got loads of contribution towards it.

I disagree that we need personal reward systems as the game is constructed primarily around personal reward systems in the form of loot and currency. The entire design of the game is that you exist primarily to be part of a guild/faction/alliance and that entity completes goals. If you add a secondary personal goal system you create friction between personal goals and team goals, and this friction is already present in the loot system. We don't need people who are already pulled in two directions between wealth and campaign cards to be pulled in yet another third direction. You see this in every team game. You give players a personal thing to do and they start to behave in ways that don't prioritize team play That's where you get some of the most toxic behavior in shooters for instance, people more worried about their own progression than winning the match.

This clean break should be maintained. Campaign goals are team goals, loot/gear/money is your personal goal. Each has a different set of rewards, with loot/wealth being promarily the things that grant hard progression, and campaign rewards being soft progression ala titles, badges, EK goodies, skins, etc.

Individual player cards should in stead be per player cards, rewarded at a guild level, using tokens, same as conquest rewards. Guild interface should have a panel to assign token rewards for cards the same way you'd have loot rules in a pve dungeon runner.

Guild says "Okay, we're gonna hit up this aracoix farming card, reward is set to even spread" or guild says "Okay we're gonna do this pig card, and we'll reward tokens based on contribution" or "We're going to GM master loot tokens for conquest and give them out at the end based on need/contribution" Ideally this would be integrated in to the new activity tracker so the GM can set a "target card" in the interface any everyone can see what the GM has set for targets, and how the rewards are assigned.

In an NPC faction, it defaults to contribution based.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

The entire design of the game is that you exist primarily to be part of a guild/faction/alliance and that entity completes goals. If you add a secondary personal goal system you create friction between personal goals and team goals, and this friction is already present in the loot system.

see i dont see a friction here, the xp gained for your personal progression that will keep people laying from day to day are the activities you are doing as a guild as well as the score board points you get individually:
you guild gets 5 points on a summer wealth card, that adds a chunk of xpp to your personal track, you take some outposts, that adds xp to your personal track, you want the best rewards from the personal track, you need to get as many sources of that xp as possible on both a scoreboard level and at a a guild DF level

 

I personally hate the idea of assigning tokens to my players, it adds more un-needed admin to the game just as we are stripping out stupid stuff like export tokens and good riddance to it, i dont want another management thing to have to do at the end of a campaign, this is also why these rewards are cosmetic/titles and possibly some gold or raw resource so it doenst interfere with the gearing or loot that the guild is doing and the massive economy of the game.

 

but thats just me on this one hehe :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Marklarr said:

see i dont see a friction here, the xp gained for your personal progression that will keep people laying from day to day are the activities you are doing as a guild as well as the score board points you get individually:
you guild gets 5 points on a summer wealth card, that adds a chunk of xpp to your personal track, you take some outposts, that adds xp to your personal track, you want the best rewards from the personal track, you need to get as many sources of that xp as possible on both a scoreboard level and at a a guild DF level

 

I personally hate the idea of assigning tokens to my players, it adds more un-needed admin to the game just as we are stripping out stupid stuff like export tokens and good riddance to it, i dont want another management thing to have to do at the end of a campaign, this is also why these rewards are cosmetic/titles and possibly some gold or raw resource so it doenst interfere with the gearing or loot that the guild is doing and the massive economy of the game.

 

but thats just me on this one hehe :)

There's a big difference between "Lets take outposts because we need outposts to accomplish a guild goal" and "I'm going to go take outposts to increment an XP bar even though there is no chance this furthers any team goal we are close to achieving"

That's the friction I'm talking about here. When you already have cards that say "do everything" and you lay this xp stuff on top that says "also do everything" you end up in a situation like many have run in to with crafting progression. We *could* play the game together, but because its more efficient to play the game separately to advance a form of personal progression (because personal progression goals are less impacted by other players attempting to stop us) we and up having to choose between putting our own progression on hold to help the group, or doing whatever is the most progression per minute on a personal track.

If you, for instance just say "outposts are worth xp" what do you think people are going to do for that XP?

They're not going to held down res outposts for it, or keep an eye on farmers for it, or do any of the myriad activities that don't increment a bar because they broadly fall in the category of "be in a group"

Who gets credit for the pig run if there are ten people present and only three pigs? How do I credit the scout that's keeping an eye out while my dudes are farming, or the scout that's scoping out the next outpost but never caps? How do I compensate my spies? These are non-systemic jobs crucial to team function and when you implement something like this you make doing those jobs a loss. The only optimal thing to do in this situation is ONLY ever do things that can somehow tick off objective XP for everyone there and advance a guild card. Otherwise you have just require some players to get less rewards if you want to play the objective efficiently.

We can compensate those players in the system we have be breaking them off a share of the loot. If you create a system build on non-transferrable or non-assignable currencies like XP we have no way to compensate activity the system can't recognize, and in a sandbox there is always plenty of valuable activity the system can't recognize that should absolutely be compensated.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

There's a big difference between "Lets take outposts because we need outposts to accomplish a guild goal" and "I'm going to go take outposts to imprement an XP bar even though there is no chance this furthers any team goal we are close to achieving"

this is why all actions have a value for personal progression so no matter what you do, you can advance both your guild and your personal things at the same time, it also generates more competion for each seasonal card because each seasonal card has a value of XP added to it

 

12 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Who gets credit for the pig run if there are ten people present and only three pigs?

vicinity Xp to the pig when handed in

Non systematic jobs would still earn guild won seasonal and end of campaign rewward xp so theoir bar can be filled whilst still doing their XP job, maybe i was too harsh on the idea that those rewards should be very hard to get but can still provide some incentive to come and play and not just for seieges which is the actual problem this game is going to encoutner of not having the day to day population that will keep it alive

this was an interesting mind exercise, i had based it off the Albion stlye one i know they use to great affect that helped their player concurrent hour retention immensley without breaking their economy

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Marklarr said:

Non systematic jobs would still earn guild won seasonal and end of campaign rewward xp so theoir bar can be filled whilst still doing their XP job

 

My point is that my scouts and spies, specifically, are getting screwed out of the personal xp portion of rewards. I consider these jobs *extremely* important in my guild, but there is no way for the system to give them XP for being part of the operation. They're not in range of a group, not in a group, and sometimes they're not even on the same map or even in the guild at all. This means they are literally incapable of benefitting from the personal objective XP everyone else is getting for capping that outpost or fort, or running that pig. My scout is not running with the group and their pigs to the turn in. He's watching the turn in until they have eyes on it and then going to check the next spawn. My scout is never at the capture point the group he's scouting for is capturing. My spies are, obviously, not wearing my tags.

There is no systemic means of fairly compensating these jobs in such a system. I have to ask these guys "hey I need someone to not want limited edition campaign xp to do stuff that helps everybody else earn limited edition campaign xp" and that's just... terrible. Even if we can trade the rewards now I'm just asking everyone to get less rewards for assigning people effectively for the objectives.

In a token or loot system, I can fairly assign their share because the share is balanced my the success or failure of the operation as a whole. I can personally attest to the fact that the guild does far better on objectives when we have these kinds of metapositions filled. We actually farm more mobs for longer when we have a guy doing nothing but swiveling his eyeballs around. We hold forts more successfully when we can keep tabs on opponents and where they are headed. We retain more mats and loot when we have people assigned just to loot logistics. They earn their share and its given to them.

In your XP system, we aren't recieving a corresponding bonus of any kind that we can assign to them. Could we give them extra loot to compensate? Sure, but they can't trade that loot in for the campaign xp rewards.

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...