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15$ /month for my EK to stay open for 3 hours?


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Am I allowed to have a merchant npc in my eternal kingdom and expect to sleep through an entire night without setting the alarm in 3 hour increments so that people can access it? Am I allowed to

That is how you get macros.

The standard amount of time is when the last character logs off. So that +3 hours. Assuming i wake up in the middle of the night to keep my EK open for business, my character will get afk logged

52 minutes ago, APE said:

Having a 1 vendor or lackluster small EK should be an option, regardless of the value it brings to others.

It is an option. You just have to spin it up every 4 hours. This is achievable both solo and with a group of players (easier with a group).

54 minutes ago, APE said:

I've seen many say things are only "P2W" when they can't be obtained in game, VIP seems to be doing just that.

Streeeetching the notion of P2W. The economy still exists and people can trade outside of EK's. 
Additionally, players can still set up a vendor in another players public EK. 
This means that economy participation is not reliant on VIP status.

 

56 minutes ago, APE said:

Some gamers take great pride in doing such things on their own or without having to be part of a much larger force.

Isn't the ENTIRE point of Crowfall to be part of a larger force? It seems to have a specific goal in mind and focusing on a solo player economy doesn't seem to be one (for better or worse).

 

57 minutes ago, APE said:

That is why 99% of MMOs have accessible economy tools (AH).

Crowfall isn't like 99% of MMO's in almost every way imaginable, including the economy. An AH could either hurt or benefit Crowfall, and there are already many discussions on this topic.

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1 hour ago, APE said:

What I find funny is even paying the $15 doesn't get an EK up 24/7 or the ability to spin it up whenever someone wants to access it. Maybe that will be part of the Elite Status VIP that cost $50/month or multiple VIP players can add their +3 hours together? 😄

 

What I find funny is the way to avoid this issue advocated by defenders is in effect, by running macro's that are against the TOS. When the ways to fix problems before a game even launches are to pay more, well you know its only going to get worse.

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54 minutes ago, Invis1988 said:

It is an option. You just have to spin it up every 4 hours. This is achievable both solo and with a group of players (easier with a group).

Which isn't a "good" option IMO.

As I mentioned, beyond some technological or financial reason, this seems to be simply to milk players. 

Do you believe allowing players to have EK up 24/7 or anyone can spin them up as being a bad thing for players? 

Quote

Streeeetching the notion of P2W. The economy still exists and people can trade outside of EK's. 
Additionally, players can still set up a vendor in another players public EK. 
This means that economy participation is not reliant on VIP status.

True, but again, is it in the best interest of players to have them jump through hoops to do what is typically a very basic and accessible feature in such a gaem.

Quote

Isn't the ENTIRE point of Crowfall to be part of a larger force? It seems to have a specific goal in mind and focusing on a solo player economy doesn't seem to be one (for better or worse).

What does a "larger" force look like? 5, 10, 500, 1000 players? How much time and cash is each individual or the group collectively expected to put in? As is, even a small group will struggle to do what a much larger one will be capable of simple because of numbers. Considering how number friendly this game is overall, it makes sense but much like combat, siege, and everything else, some people actually like to see what they are capable of without having to crutch with numbers.

Quote

Crowfall isn't like 99% of MMO's in almost every way imaginable, including the economy. An AH could either hurt or benefit Crowfall, and there are already many discussions on this topic.

Crowfall is pretty typical overall, but lacking content, having half backed features, and making things harder to access does seem like it's strength... 

I see zero reason how an AH would hurt the game overall. Regardless, if it isn't going to have such a common sense feature, then making the EK/Vendor design require XYZ to use efficiently or at all doesn't make any sense.

Again, this design choice seems revenue driven and not to benefit players at all. No different then any other paywall or advantage microtransaction. Big IF, players could earn VIP or access to VIP perks through playing it might not be as questionable, but seems like ACE has decided cash for game balance benefit is fine.

It's fine if you or others have no issue and are fine paying the fee to do such things, but defending and expecting others to just accept it seems odd. When they said they were making a niche game, they weren't kidding.

Edited by APE

 


 

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49 minutes ago, APE said:

defending and expecting others to just accept it seems odd.

I am not really defending so much as stating it is inconsequential. 

When reviewing grander systems, it is not viable to run a store solo... even if the EK was up 24/7 with VIP. You said it yourself, the larger group will always win in this case. 

The challenge and bottleneck small groups will run into would not be inside the EK or anything to do with VIP, it would be the gold sink from upgrading disciplines to buying the Vendor that holds back smaller groups.

In the case of an actual defense:

Running a merchant EK I would say a group of 3 can do it relatively efficiently and would probably find some success, and on top of that only one person needs to have VIP. All 3 people can pool resources to purchase plots (but very few are needed), 

49 minutes ago, APE said:

I see zero reason how an AH would hurt the game overall.

I think the fact it's not in the game says something and shouldn't be dismissed as a cash grab.

 

Edited by Invis1988
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4 minutes ago, Invis1988 said:

I am not really defending so much as stating it is inconsequential. 


 

The game is riddled with bottlenecks, gates and pointless grinds.  Now one of the worst is being entrenched as a revenue raiser.

Inconsequential only if you choose to play something else.

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2 hours ago, Invis1988 said:

I am not really defending so much as stating it is inconsequential. 

When reviewing grander systems, it is not viable to run a store solo... even if the EK was up 24/7 with VIP. You said it yourself, the larger group will always win in this case. 

The challenge and bottleneck small groups will run into would not be inside the EK or anything to do with VIP, it would be the gold sink from upgrading disciplines to buying the Vendor that holds back smaller groups.

In the case of an actual defense:

Running a merchant EK I would say a group of 3 can do it relatively efficiently and would probably find some success, and on top of that only one person needs to have VIP. All 3 people can pool resources to purchase plots (but very few are needed), 

It might be inconsequential to you or others, but to someone else it might be very consequential. 

If someone wants to have a small EK, why not? Because you deem it isn't viable? Who are we to decide how or why someone wants to play a game a certain way, especially when it falls within normal behavior and within what was said prior?

I have a lot of EK assets and zero interest in them myself. However, I can see why players that do like such things would be annoyed by how it has turned out.

It isn't about "winning" but rather being able to make use of what is a standard aspect of every MMO that I've ever played since the 90s.

Requiring players to purchase VIP to make their EK accessible to the public seems anti-player IMO. B2P, pay once play forever, but...

Yet another dev and cash shop controlled aspect of gameplay in this so called sandbox.

2 hours ago, Invis1988 said:

I think the fact it's not in the game says something and shouldn't be dismissed as a cash grab.

What does it say?

Limiting uptime and putting a paywall on what was hyped to be a big part of the game seems grabby to me.

The whole nostalgia hype about social gameplay didn't have the caveat that it would require a sub and or expect players to either join someone else EK or find enough to make their EK "viable."

What if they attached VIP to being able to do anything else in the game? Harvest, craft, level, siege, PVP, create a guild, etc? "Don't have VIP? Sorry, can't zone into that map until a VIP player does."

The "this is a team game" reasoning can apply to anything, so can ways to make paywalls.

 


 

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9 hours ago, APE said:

If someone wants to have a small EK, why not? Because you deem it isn't viable? Who are we to decide how or why someone wants to play a game a certain way, especially when it falls within normal behavior and within what was said prior?

You keep saying this, I have addressed it. 

 

9 hours ago, APE said:

I have a lot of EK assets and zero interest in them myself. However, I can see why players that do like such things would be annoyed by how it has turned out.

This has nothing to do with running a public EK. You can use the assets and invite friends into your EK regardless.

 

9 hours ago, APE said:

Requiring players to purchase VIP to make their EK accessible to the public seems anti-player IMO. B2P, pay once play forever, but...

The EK is still accessible to people, you just have to add them as citizens. 

The game is indeed buy to play, in fact you could play the entirety of the game and never go into an EK. Many people do this. Just because some people WANT to run a public EK doesn't make it instantly p2w. 

 

9 hours ago, APE said:

What if they attached VIP to being able to do anything else in the game? Harvest, craft, level, siege, PVP, create a guild, etc? "Don't have VIP? Sorry, can't zone into that map until a VIP player does."

Strawman/Slippery slope fallacy. 

 

Your arguments so far:

1) Public EK's are p2w (we established they are not, you admitted that you were stretching the idea yourself)

2) Having to pay for a public EK is "annoying" (not a great argument in favor of having public EK's a free service)

3) Slipperyslope fallacy, VIP will never lock out people from core parts of the game such as crafting harvesting and pvp.

I don't see any "new" arguments from your side, you're just doubling down on the idea that running a public EK is "p2w".

At this point, all you have is recycled diatribe and strawman arguments with a limited scope. 

If you have anything actually new to add, feel free, otherwise I am going to become exhausted answering the same reply from you over and over :)

 

Edited by Invis1988
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