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Did you like 6 Player Group Sizes in Dregs?


Did you like 6 player groups over 5?  

130 members have voted

  1. 1. As of the most recent test patch, groups are back to 5 player sizes. What size group did you prefer?

    • I preferred 6 player groups.
      69
    • I preferred 5 player groups.
      12
    • I could go for even larger groups (7+)
      49


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As of the most recent TEST patch, group sizes have been reverted to 5 players from 6 without any patch notes - thanks @thomasblair who I assume made this sneaky change without telling anyone.

From what I've seen, 6 player groups were universally loved by the community and touted as a huge improvement to the meta of the game at all scales. What did you think? Personally I really enjoyed needing fewer healers in large compositions and the extra utility you could justify bringing in with the 6th group slot. Vote up above and leave any feedback here - really curious to see what the community thinks.

This feels a whole lot like a change that was made to simplify group size differences between rulesets. I say we should just have 6 player groups across the game period.

Edited by galvia
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6 was indeed more interesting than 5. With the 2 healers meta it left enough space for other classes to fill the remaining slots. With 5 it could feel pretty limiting.

And honestly I really didnt come across any balance problems, so i wonder why not leave it as it was. By this point it felt weird to return to skypoint and be limited back to 5.

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Group size needs to be at least 8. This is one of the worst changes that has been made in a while and is devastating a week before launch. This destroys build diversity/viability in ways that can not be understood unless you play the game.

Id really like to know the reasoning on this one. 

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I found 6 was a decent balance allowing for a more varied group comp for organized groups.  Its an awkward transition when your raid grows enough to warrant another party, you end up with a party of just 2 healers, or dps without support.

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It's tricky for ACE because people enjoy 6 man groups due to the more favorable meta healer ratio. However the larger the groups the more meta other things like group buffs become.

Even going from 5 to 6 had me second questioning many things.

Going from 5 to 6 didn't seem too jarring but I imagine going much past 6 might introduce some issues to the balance of many skills especially when you consider the game is going to be played at both large and small scale.

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27 minutes ago, galvia said:

As of the most recent TEST patch, group sizes have been reverted to 5 players from 6 without any patch notes - thanks @thomasblair who I assume made this sneaky change without telling anyone.

From what I've seen, 6 player groups were universally loved by the community and touted as a huge improvement to the meta of the game at all scales. What did you think? Personally I really enjoyed needing fewer healers in large compositions and the extra utility you could justify bringing in with the 6th group slot. Vote up above and leave any feedback here - really curious to see what the community thinks.

This feels a whole lot like a change that was made to simplify group size differences between rulesets. I say we should just have 6 player groups across the game period.

You are just seeing us build our Campaign Configurator settings as we get ready for launch. The base group size has always been 5 and continues to be 5. We built a feature a few updates back with a variable group size setting in our Campaign Configurator, where we can make the Configurator set max group size to a value from +1 - +5 for that campaign.

Group size is just one of many knobs available to us to make each Campaign feel different than the others in the Configurator, and as time goes forward we will continue to add more settings into the Configurator. I know in other MMO's once they make changes those changes are permanent and just the way it is from then on, however Crowfall's Campaign premise has always been there are tons of knobs and we will turn those knobs and see what kind of Campaign it produces.

As Zybak pointed out, each time we dial Up a +1 to max group size, we have just increased the power of groups in that Campaign due to buffs and healing, so it is a tricky knob to turn. But turn it we will!

Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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Just now, thomasblair said:

I know in other MMO's once they make changes those changes are permanent and just the way it is from then on, however Crowfall's Campaign premise has always been there are tons of knobs and we will turn those knobs and see what kind of Campaign it produces.

I hope it's clear that the way this poll and general theme of feedback is trending, that the community would strongly prefer 6 player groups. One of the best changes you've made in the game in the past year. No idea why the takeaway here isn't "damn players love 6 player groups, lets make that the standard!" instead of just treating this like resetting some knobs or as a way of avoiding some massive balance undertaking?

I haven't heard "group buffs are OP!" in the 6~ months of 6 player groups we've been testing, more like "group buffs are finally starting to be useful".

Please reconsider. This isn't some minor tweak, it makes the game markedly worse.

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5 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

You are just seeing us build our Campaign Configurator settings as we get ready for launch. The base group size has always been 5 and continues to be 5. We built a feature a few updates back with a variable group size setting in our Campaign Configurator, where we can make the Configurator set max group size to a value from +1 - +5 for that campaign.

Group size is just one of many knobs available to us to make each Campaign feel different than the others in the Configurator, and as time goes forward we will continue to add more settings into the Configurator. I know in other MMO's once they make changes those changes are permanent and just the way it is from then on, however Crowfall's Campaign premise has always been there are tons of knobs and we will turn those knobs and see what kind of Campaign it produces.

As Zybak pointed out, each time we dial Up a +1 to max group size, we have just increased the power of groups in that Campaign due to buffs and healing, so it is a tricky knob to turn. But turn it we will!

Since we are talking about campaign knobs, I hope like hell you also have a knob that will quintuple the number of zones per campaign at minimum, and double the size of the zones themselves. We haven't seen any testing,  nor heard any feedback that you are even capable of providing enough room for people, unless you really expect the population of this game to never exceed 200.

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1 minute ago, galvia said:

I haven't heard "group buffs are OP!" in the 6~ months of 6 player groups we've been testing, more like "group buffs are finally starting to be useful".

This.

While it is true that each +1 in group size has balance considerations, there was no actual problem with 6 man groups. They didn't make buffs OP.

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Since the 6 man group change happened, I don't think a single complaint was made regarding the new group size. In fact the group size was so popular that people wanted it to extend to the other sections of the game.  Changing it back to 5 man groups is perhaps the worst decision made within the last 2 years.  6 man groups opened up group diversity that had not been seen in the entirety of the games existence. I strongly recommend you reconsider this change.

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12 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

You are just seeing us build our Campaign Configurator settings as we get ready for launch. The base group size has always been 5 and continues to be 5. We built a feature a few updates back with a variable group size setting in our Campaign Configurator, where we can make the Configurator set max group size to a value from +1 - +5 for that campaign.

Group size is just one of many knobs available to us to make each Campaign feel different than the others in the Configurator, and as time goes forward we will continue to add more settings into the Configurator. I know in other MMO's once they make changes those changes are permanent and just the way it is from then on, however Crowfall's Campaign premise has always been there are tons of knobs and we will turn those knobs and see what kind of Campaign it produces.

As Zybak pointed out, each time we dial Up a +1 to max group size, we have just increased the power of groups in that Campaign due to buffs and healing, so it is a tricky knob to turn. But turn it we will!

I feel like the poll results are clear. Please use the knobs and give us 6 man groups. Crowfall is a group/guild game. Players do not want to to be forced to have 40% of their group/guild heal just to be competitive. 

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I would pref 10 man groups. Ever since darkfall thats been my preferred group sizes in PvP games. atleast the dial allows for 10 man by the sound of blair post earlier since that be +5. could be interesting to add friendly fire outside of groups and have a large group size like 10 would make some unused talents/disc more appearling that have group buffs associated with them aswell where they often get neglected at times.

But yeah 5 man is to small cause no matter what people bring 2 healers and then often the last 3 players in the group doesnt do enough dmg to kill the healers so fights go too long between competent teams which often benefits larger faction since they got tones of time to get reinforcments. they also dont leave space for any support character that dont do heavy dmg or heals

 

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Regardless of the actual differences between 5 and 6 man groups, I think it's important to keep in mind that ACE should tweak as many of the knobs mentioned above as possible from the getgo. Everyone here would probably disagree and just want everything to be as close to the settings they have been getting practice in for the last months/years, but it's a nice opportunity to make the launch at least somewhat unfamiliar for everyone, new players and veterans alike.

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I started playing Crowfall last November. Since then, my favorite change you guys have made the whole time while I climbed from newbie to being a halfway decent player has been the 6 person group change. The game just plays much better with 6 person groups. In 5 person groups, so many of the choices you guys have baked into the discipline system go out the window. I still remember the first time we started doing organized 6v6s and realized that you COULD effectively use things like Minstrel Entertainer and not be totally dragging down your group. The mechanics of a lot of these disciplines are not mathematically balanced in 5v5s, they're super lacking, and 6 person groups was an incredibly elegant way to boost them toward viability. 5 person groups being the norm again is going to do little but significantly narrow the scope of a game that purports to pride itself on build diversity and personal customization and pride in your own unique character.

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- Groups should be six players.

- Groups should be able to form Warbands. 

- Warbands should be able to hold 5-6 groups.

- There should be a Warband chat channel that is able to communicate across all groups within their Warband.

- There should be an option to open the Warband for players to join freely while out in the world.

- There should be a window with a list of all open Warbands in the zone that align with your faction or guild/alliance.

- The creator of the Warband should be able to move players to different groups within the Warband to create better comps or combine incomplete groups.

- Skills such as auras should only affect the group they are in, not the entire Warband.

 

Edited by Upem

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