Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Vaeryx

Levelling

Levelling   

365 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want levelling to be a feature in the game?

    • Yes, it adds a sense of progression
      171
    • No, it stops me from playing with my friends
      109
    • Yes, (Add reason in the comments)
      8
    • No, (Add reason in the comments)
      77


Recommended Posts

I don't mind leveling. I don't mind grinding. I actually like to do it. But I have to agree, that when you reach max level, most games tend to get boring.

So what's most important, if you want to get rid of levels is to bring up some sort of other goal. With the machanic of the worlds, that get wiped, there seem to be quite a lot of options to do so, though.

And if there are no levels, how are you going to stop people, who gained their advantages through hours of playing from just farming on people who just started. In other games, you could just say "see, this is a starting area. With that level you can't attack someone here!"

 

I see your point, and I know, a lot of people tend to hate grinding, but levels are simply the easiest way to deal with most mechanics in a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are too many factors involved for me to reply to the poll. If we have say, 20 levels that take you ~10 hours to max I wouldn't mind levels, but if its a 1000 hour grind to get your toon maxed out, I'll scream.

 

You're making an assumption about "why" and "how" you would level. 

Levels are fine, and there's no reason to race to the end. Get the WoW model out of your line of thinking :)


zjsbjmn.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I hate leveling, its a big factor in why I quit games for sure. Shadowbane was just enough leveling to learn your toon and be ready to go in a week at most. I work, have a wife and kids and the last thing i want to is to work on the game just to be able to do anything worth while for hours on end. I want to jump on and go kill some folks and be in the mix as soon as possible. Getting PLed by a druid is a waste of time. If I log in for an hour I want to be able to fight, pillage etc right away and enjoy my time.

 

Of Coarse its a race to the end in PVP games, otherwise your going to die too often and not get things done. If you like taking your time and killing ogres all day, PVP games are not where its at. There are plenty of games that will let you level to your hearts content and about the time you get close to the cap they raise it 10 more levels.

Edited by Buckshot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So leveling as a construct for manifesting progression has strengths and weaknesses.

 

Among its strengths are: clear progression,clear evaluation of your precise level of progression by other players, simple character progression paths.

 

Weaknesses include: lack of complexity,area gating due to level restrictions, lack of individual customization.

 

There are ways around all of a level systems weaknesses, but I would rather jump right into the action. I don't place any stock in the idea that time spent in the game should give a player combat advantages over players with less time spent in game (except in the cases of knowledge of mechanics and practice of executing properly due to time spent).

 

So it comes down to our priorities as a community here. Do we want transparency or complexity? Do we want easy access to functionality or customization? Do we want exclusive experiences or inclusive?

 

In all cases I would choose the latter. In conclusion I would be fine with a leveling system that addressed these issues. However I think a better approach for us is to think of each character as a unit in a RTS game and focus on how to progress the goals of the guild or faction. This could be achieved by progressing through social ranks. Rather than being recognized by a computer that tallies your kills you could be recognized by peers and or your lord. Given higher rank and political power rather than direct combat advantages. Frankly this kind of system is already in development for this game.

 

Social progression over character progression does several things for the community. Since MMOS are community based games a progression focused on the social aspects of the game make a lot of sense.This type of system encourages socialization over grinding puts community goals over individual goals, strengthening the sense of community,and making rivalries and potential "peace treaties" that much more meaningful.

 

In short it should be more advantageous to bring friends to the fight than have a billion exp.

Edited by Joziah09

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There should be no leveling involved in Crowfall.

 

Please use open-ended skills as progression (similar to what they do in EVE) with diminishing returns.

 

This will allow new players to contribute almost immediately instead of having to go through the levelling grind.

 

Example:

UncleBob is levelling swords to 175 which will take 30 days of passive training.

In the meantime, JessieNewPlayer can level 4 or 5 skills to 100 in the same amount of time, thus allowing her to catch up a bit while UncleBob would only receive a slight increase in his sword use in the same amount of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're making an assumption about "why" and "how" you would level. 

Levels are fine, and there's no reason to race to the end. Get the WoW model out of your line of thinking :)

Ah, your kind. So fresh, so innocent, so wonderfully appetizing to murder. "There's no reason to race", oh that's just too damn cute.

 

Meanwhile you're having fun not maximizing your play efficiency, rest of this community will. Everybody and their mothers are going to macro the hell out of this game to max their characters in the fastest possible time. Some even do it on at least 3 accounts simultaneously.

Edited by nehemia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I vote no for leveling in the traditional sense but I would like something like what is done in Dark Souls. Essentially in Dark Souls you can play through the game without ever leveling if you want and it's a challenge but possible and If you do level there are still things at all stages that can kill you if you aren't careful. Skills and stats just let you use weapons and items more effectively. Basically A horde of zombies should be able to catch you off guard and kill you at level 1 and level 20 but you can survive at level one by using timing and skill and level twenty by using that same timing but with different weapons and items that you picked up thanks to your experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Second Idea just came to me. what if every level you had to pick an advantage and disadvantage, and make leveling optional. Higher levels have access to certain advantages but will have weaknesses in other aspects.

 

Example:

 

YOU HAVE REACHED LEVEL 15!

 

I choose Might for plus one strength, and Weakened Soul for lowered magic resistance.

 

Sort of like Fallout's perk system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There should be no leveling involved in Crowfall.

 

Please use open-ended skills as progression (similar to what they do in EVE) with diminishing returns.

 

This will allow new players to contribute almost immediately instead of having to go through the levelling grind.

 

Example:

UncleBob is levelling swords to 175 which will take 30 days of passive training.

In the meantime, JessieNewPlayer can level 4 or 5 skills to 100 in the same amount of time, thus allowing her to catch up a bit while UncleBob would only receive a slight increase in his sword use in the same amount of time.

 

The problem with this idea as I see it is that while UncleBob and Jessie new player are leveling their skills in their respective fashions, BlitzBlaze420 is cranking out skill levels to new plateaus every day beyond what either is capable of putting the time in for, kills both for their loot then goes to their castles and rapes and pillages until they leave the campaign like the noobs they must obviously be.

Edited by Gideon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, levels belong in a themepark game, not a sandbox.  Themepark games are shallow and lack depth.  They are not creative and are all clones.  I feel a good skill based system is 1000 times better then this so called leveling progression.  leveling causes imbalances between players as well.  Leveling forces us to have dead content.  To many resources go into something that takes a few weeks to accomplish. Then that content is never played again by many. I would rather see those resources dedicated to end game content to keep players interest. 

 

The game I played the longest was UO, we had zero leveling of characters.  We did have a skill system though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would appreciate a system similar to that of the Paragon System in Diablo 3, I like the idea that its cap is virtually unobtainable, and its a great way to show off really... 

 

More or less, a level that never can reach the cap and that you can carry throughout each and every campaign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The game I played the longest was UO, we had zero leveling of characters.  We did have a skill system though.

 

Never played UO but I'm interested in the idea of skill unlocks. Would certain skills unlock certain perks and usage of other items?

 

Maybe you get a great sword that's of an extreme quality but you swing it slowly because your skill is lower than it should be. So when you face off against a player with a similar sword that has a higher skill they swing faster but do the same amount of damage with each blow. The slower player needs to compensate by moving around more and timing his hits putting him at a slight disadvantage but making for interesting combat. Maybe the slower swinging character is wearing lighter armor and is able to more around the quicker swinging player in order to land more blows! I could see that working...

 

Basically if there are advantages and disadvantages to using certain items and skills bring those play styles into more specialized areas we could have some real interesting combat scenarios wear sizing up an opponent could mean more than just seeing what weapon he is holding.

Edited by Gideon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never played UO but I'm interest in the idea of skill unlocks. Would certain skills unlock certain perks and usage of other items?

 

Maybe you get a great sword that's of an extreme quality but you swing it slowly because your skill is lower than it should be. So when you face off against a player with a similar sword that has a higher skill they swing faster but do the same amount of damage with each blow. The slower player needs to compensate by moving around more and timing his hits putting him at a slight disadvantage but making for interesting combat. Maybe the slower swinging character is wearing lighter armor and is able to more around the quicker swinging player in order to land more blows! I could see that working...

 

Basically if there are advantages and disadvantages to using certain items and skills bring those play styles into more specialized areas we could have some real interesting combat scenarios wear sizing up an opponent could mean more than just seeing what weapon he is holding.

Uo was a skill system in its rawest form.  Each skill went from 1 to 100 and you just got better with your weapon as skill level increased (less misses).  Later in uo the had skill was patched to go beyond 100.  Uo skills leveled to 100 via use only.  It was very common to get on a ship in the ocean and practice your skills to level them to 100.  The other way was to spend hours sparring with friends.  Magic resist was particularly hard to raise because you would have to get attacked repeatedly by someone casting fireball or other magic spell on you.  Sometimes it would take weeks or months to get maxed skill char. 

 

There was not much difference between someone with 80% weapon skill or someone 100%.  The guys with 80% skill could kill the other if more skillful.  Weapons had modifiers of speed or other things on them along with the crafters name.  Certain unique crafter names were more popular then others.  Back then playing a female crafter with some flirting got you big tips.  The crafting was luck based on what you got for stats as well.  You would get the best armor you could find and go killing stuff.  Most of the time it ended in death and you had to go buy more armor because UO was full loot, until, they wrecked the game with trammel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand the hate on levels personally. The more xp we gain in combat, questing or whatever should be given to us in its raw form to then spend on what WE want to spend it on. Astonia III did this so excellently that i cannot believe it was not echo'ed throughout the MMO genre for years to come. Below is one example and will continue below the image.
 

screen003.jpg

On the top left you will see your "effective" level in regard to total amount of experience you have gained over your life time. This number really just shows how much overall experience you've gained and has no indication of what you've been doing with said experience.

On the bottom left you will see a bunch of attributes with blue globes beside them to the left. You can level each of these attributes up as long as you have enough experience to increase them. Want to build an all crafter? Awesome, just plug away at the various attributes you want to spend XP on. Want to have a lot of STR and SPEED? fine, do it. 

 

This system enables classlessness, and no level grinding in its "traditional" sense. However, it also encourages you participate in whatever way that earns you experience to progress your character. There has to be SOME sense of self progression and milestone achievements to keep players coming back to find that completed. As much fun as the constant onslaught of PVP is going to be, people will be looking elsewhere to "grind" out to become better more well rounded characters in whatever they want to do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to level but rather I want to be rewarded for playing the game via skill advancement. I am an old school UO player from 98, shadowbane also and have played many MMO's over the past 17 years and personally the most rewarding experience was the skill based system from UO.

 

The only downside to that system that I found was that after you had played the game and the newness was gone and you just wanted to start a new char and get up to a competitive level you had to macro. This became quite an endeavor in itself and gave a great feeling of accomplishment when you finally hit that 100 / GM Status in whatever skills you were macroing. If that same sense of accomplishment could be achieved without the macroing through gameplay i would find that to be even more rewarding.

 

-Iczer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand the hate on levels personally.

Have you ever played a game that did not have levels? 

 

     If not, I would say that is why you don't understand the hate on levels.  It is based on a thempark (WoW model) and they put that trash in there as a reason not to have any real solid end game content.  I cannot tell you how many AAA games in the last 15 years that have released with great leveling systems and Very little end game content.  People quit after 2 months and never look back.  The companies make huge $$$ for a few months then move to the next project.  This is what most of the younger folks are use to and all they expect from a game.  Some of older folks remember when end game content was the game.

 

Please give this a try before you propose to ruin yet another potentially great game with thempark content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever played a game that did not have levels? 

 

     If not, I would say that is why you don't understand the hate on levels.  It is based on a thempark (WoW model) and they put that trash in there as a reason not to have any real solid end game content.  I cannot tell you how many AAA games in the last 15 years that have released with great leveling systems and Very little end game content.  People quit after 2 months and never look back.  The companies make huge $$$ for a few months then move to the next project.  This is what most of the younger folks are use to and all they expect from a game.  Some of older folks remember when end game content was the game.

 

Please give this a try before you propose to ruin yet another potentially great game with thempark content.

 

I agree. I like the idea of fighting through later level content but the enemies I faced from the get go are still relevant and even able to kill me if I'm careless.

 

Think about a game like Mario Bros., where the Goomba remains a relevant baddy throughout the game and you never are able to do more than you were when you first started but are expected to take on hordes of them now because you are better at the game. Of course now you have access to fire flowers and other tools that might help you but one false move and your done!

 

That's the kind of thing I'd like to see. We upgrade ourselves to fight the threats as they are introduced but the enemies themselves never lose their threat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't this game based on campaigns? Aren't we heros sumoned for our skills?

 

I'm ok with some progresion, but it has to have a goal, and it have to not be a restriction neither.

 

 

I will sincerely put 0 progresion in this game. Learn by yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...