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Vaeryx

Levelling

Levelling   

365 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want levelling to be a feature in the game?

    • Yes, it adds a sense of progression
      171
    • No, it stops me from playing with my friends
      109
    • Yes, (Add reason in the comments)
      8
    • No, (Add reason in the comments)
      77


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Have you ever played a game that did not have levels? 

 

     If not, I would say that is why you don't understand the hate on levels.  It is based on a thempark (WoW model) and they put that trash in there as a reason not to have any real solid end game content.  I cannot tell you how many AAA games in the last 15 years that have released with great leveling systems and Very little end game content.  People quit after 2 months and never look back.  The companies make huge $$$ for a few months then move to the next project.  This is what most of the younger folks are use to and all they expect from a game.  Some of older folks remember when end game content was the game.

 

Please give this a try before you propose to ruin yet another potentially great game with thempark content.

You dont need to tell me how many AAA games run off levels. You also need to realize levels work, and this is why they find themselves in all of these AAA titles. I wouldnt call it trash either, especially with the following some level based MMOs have. Have you investigated the Korean game market, obviously not. I understand why people are sick of levels and want something different, but even the games that pose no levels are left by its players in the exact same way to which you are describing. Engagement does not rest on whether or not there is a leveling system and this makes your view of the "wow model" flawed. Like my post suggest, levels aren't a bad thing, but should be treated more like a milestone of accomplishment just like any other achievement. 

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Levels for a game like this make absolutely no sense. If players have levels, then NPCs will need levels too, and those NPCs will need to be segregated based on those levels. It wouldn't make sense to have level 1 mobs side by side with level 50 mobs. Mobs having levels would mean that we are restricted to certain parts of the map until we level up.

 

Levels are just an artificial way to increase player power. We don't need another game where high levels go after low levels simply because the low levels have no chance of fighting back. With a totally skill-based system, character power is hidden. Attacking someone actually comes with some risk because you don't know how strong the other player is just by looking at his level.

Edited by Arkade

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The EVE system is the worse system out there. Having to wait weeks or even months to try out a new piece of gear that you got was so annoying, I eventually quit the game, and is also the reason why I never have picked it up again.  Not to mention the fact that since I didn't start playing on day 1, there were people I was playing against who had a literally insurmountable lead in training points over me.


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SCOTLAND!

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The EVE system is the worse system out there. Having to wait weeks or even months to try out a new piece of gear that you got was so annoying, I eventually quit the game, and is also the reason why I never have picked it up again.  Not to mention the fact that since I didn't start playing on day 1, there were people I was playing against who had a literally insurmountable lead in training points over me.

 

I agree, I'm more in the camp of a Dark Souls type system. Any weapon or armor can be used but your stats determine your effectiveness.

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I agree, I'm more in the camp of a Dark Souls type system. Any weapon or armor can be used but your stats determine your effectiveness.

 

And Dark Souls was heavily reliant on levels, but in the sense that the XP you earned could be spent wherever you wanted. The level system was there as an achievement and sort of in the background, and to sort you for proper online PVP. Though if you wanted to use a Claymore, you neded X STR and X DEX and you needed to get to the X effective level to be able to use it. 

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I've never been a fan of overall character levels.  I greatly prefer on-use leveling of specific abilities (e.g. Oblivion or Skyrim).  The more you use an ability, the more proficient you become with it.  For example, the more proficient you become with a weapon type (or ability or armor) it gradually increases damage and crit values.  The more I block with a shield, it gradually increases amount blocked.  The more proficient with an armor type... it gradually increases protection stats.  Etc...

 

However, I wouldn't mind my character to have an Age that gradually increases over time and total proficiency gain.  For example, everyone starts their character at 21 years old and eventually, you end up with like a 60 year old ... ass kicking character!


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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And Dark Souls was heavily reliant on levels, but in the sense that the XP you earned could be spent wherever you wanted. The level system was there as an achievement and sort of in the background, and to sort you for proper online PVP. Though if you wanted to use a Claymore, you neded X STR and X DEX and you needed to get to the X effective level to be able to use it. 

 

Yeah so I suppose I'm Pro Levels if they are done this way and people of different levels can still fight the environment and other content effectively.

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The EVE system is the worse system out there. Having to wait weeks or even months to try out a new piece of gear that you got was so annoying, I eventually quit the game, and is also the reason why I never have picked it up again.  Not to mention the fact that since I didn't start playing on day 1, there were people I was playing against who had a literally insurmountable lead in training points over me.

 

That is why as the game gets older new characters need to have better and better starting ability scores.  Say at the end of every month of game play every stat in the game gains +2.  If you made a character one year after the game was launched you would start with 24 in every ability instead of the zero.  While this is not the perfect solution the numbers can be played with to make it feel like you are not so far behind that its pointless to play. 

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I wish more people had Runescape experience. I really can't convey the skill system here without people thinking I am an insane Korean grind lord. 

Edited by unknownxv

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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I wish more people had Runescape experience. I really can't convey the skill system here without people thinking I am an insane Korean grind lord. 

Nah, we don't think that.

 

We think that you are insanely obsessed with Runescape.

But that might be because you can't post a single post without mentioning it.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Yes and no. Leveling can add an easy goto sense of progression that can otherwise be difficult to attain in a game. Problem is it can also segregate people based an artificial stats that have no other purpose than progression. This progression CAN be obtained through other means. Question is.. how. That can be the real killer in many cases. There is often no easy way to do it.

 

My opinion is that it should be avoided to the largest extent possible. Power creep in general can be a nasty issue in games regardless of level. Yet I feel the need to mention it here due to it sharing many of the same problems. It can cause an ever-increasing need to have stronger items over time. Eventually this can prevent you from being able to let a friend tag along. Or worse yet the grind and/or means to obtain these items may make you or your friends wish to focus on that over doing content as a group.

 

Both of these are conondrums that many MMORPG games have encountered to one degree or another. Crowfall would be wise to look at the mistakes made by others and learn. Examples such as attunement quests in standard MMORPG games often divide rather than unite. Completion of them can mean leaving people behind whom are on different stages. Worse yet perhaps not wanting to do it again due to the associated grind, again leaving people in the dark.

 

Normally I would delve into my opinion on this further. Problem is I am barely conscious at it is. I felt compelled to log into these forums and dive on into the community once I learned about this game. Despite me being reaaallllly tired.


I'm not an idiot, I simply choose not to think.

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What kind of leveling, OP?  There is skill leveling.  If you mean just generic "ding" LEVEL type of levels, then no, that doesn't make sense in a game that is entirely focused on PVP.  There does need to be both vertical and horizontal advancement, though..  that somehow is both meaningful and not completely overpowering when compared to a noob.  That balance is always a challenge, but it sounds like crowfall is erring on the side of not being overpowering and a minimal power growth curve.

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But Runescape also took forever to level up to anything. I spent around 60 hours fishing, and was only about level 70

Urg, dont start him.

 

That is exactly his point. He wants to spend forever doing something.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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They better not do "Leveling" like archeage. I swear to God, if its a gear grind I'm out. Nothing is worth my sanity.


You're hilarious dude, you deserve awards for your degree of wit and intelligence, you truly do.

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You dont need to tell me how many AAA games run off levels. You also need to realize levels work, and this is why they find themselves in all of these AAA titles. I wouldnt call it trash either, especially with the following some level based MMOs have. Have you investigated the Korean game market, obviously not. I understand why people are sick of levels and want something different, but even the games that pose no levels are left by its players in the exact same way to which you are describing. Engagement does not rest on whether or not there is a leveling system and this makes your view of the "wow model" flawed. Like my post suggest, levels aren't a bad thing, but should be treated more like a milestone of accomplishment just like any other achievement. 

The only AAA title that has longevity and still see's a boatload of players is WoW. The rest have been short term money grabs.  I am sure the rest would love WoW's success, but, it just has not happened.  If this game had levels and was remotely close to all those AAA titles you refer to, I would not be supporting it.  

 

It  amazes me , why when developers come out with an Idea, why so many people try to make it like the same exact thing, the developers are trying to shy away from.

 

I like the game exactly the way I supported it in kick starter.  Polish it with some tweaks, more solid sandbox content and for the sake of Pete, the DEVS need to stay focused and on course so we have a different game that breaks the damn theme park mold.

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