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timetraveler

My Issue With Certain Tera Combat Mechanics

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hi timetraveler,

I've watch the vid and there is some valid points to be taken note of.

Also, I believe animation locking have also sort of been addressed but haven't come to a conclusion.

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I enjoyed Tera but the biggest issue I had was latency.  Playing on NA servers from outside NA gives action combat style MMO players a huge disadvantage.  I also played a ranger class and your auto attack speed was way faster than mine and other things like skill lock on are also affected.   I certainly hope I don't suffer the same issue with Crowfall.


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hi timetraveler,

I've watch the vid and there is some valid points to be taken note of.

Also, I believe animation locking have also sort of been addressed but haven't come to a conclusion.

 

 

Do you know where it has been addressed? No need to invest too much time looking for it but I was just wondering ;)

 

 

I'll just say this: 

 

Animation lock is awesome

Animation root is not awesome

 

E: See Darksouls 2.

 

Could you perhaps emphasize a little bit more on this?

If you don't have the root but do have the lock isn't it going to be like this (0:05 secs)?:

 

http://justinlowe.name/telegra.webm

 

I've only experienced Dark Souls 1 (prepare to die edition) which was a terrible port so I've barely got the play the game.

On Twitch I've watched Dark Souls 2 streams when it just got released though. It did look like rooting as well though but perhaps you could explain the exact system to me. Once you execute an attack you can't move at the same time right? It's just that your character moves forward while executing the attack correct?

 

Thanks a lot for your replies.

Edited by timetraveler

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I've only experienced Dark Souls 1 (prepare to die edition) which was a terrible port so I've barely got the play the game.

On Twitch I've watched Dark Souls 2 streams when it just got released though. It did look like rooting as well though but perhaps you could explain the exact system to me. Once you execute an attack you can't move at the same time right? It's just that your character moves forward while executing the attack correct?

 

Thanks a lot for your replies.

 

I think the difference he is tlaking about, is that, up to a certain moment, you can cancel an animation, but eventually you'll be locked into it.

You can also change the direction of attacks mid animation.

 

Here's some DkS2 PvP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFGjCarvQd0

 

not the very best, but I think it serves its purpose.  :)

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I think the difference he is tlaking about, is that, up to a certain moment, you can cancel an animation, but eventually you'll be locked into it.

You can also change the direction of attacks mid animation.

 

Here's some DkS2 PvP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFGjCarvQd0

 

not the very best, but I think it serves its purpose.  :)

 

Thank you for the clarification, I see what you mean I think around 1:01.

He basically starts to execute an attack but he's still able to change direction even though he's locked into place.

 

I haven't seen any cancellations in this specific example though like you'd see in games like Gunz The Duel or even fighters like Super Smash Bros.

That's a reasonable mechanic as well I think even though I still prefer free movement, it slightly reminds me of Blade Symphony.

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I've seen you post several topics that explain your issues with crowfall. It seems to me this game isn't for you (as the devs have stated multiple times).

 

Ridiculous.

 

 

I enjoyed Tera but the biggest issue I had was latency.  Playing on NA servers from outside NA gives action combat style MMO players a huge disadvantage.  I also played a ranger class and your auto attack speed was way faster than mine and other things like skill lock on are also affected.   I certainly hope I don't suffer the same issue with Crowfall.

 

This is usually going to be the case for games with fast-paced combat. You need to play on servers that are geographically close to you.

 

Despite that...

 

I know I mention Darkfall in 75% of my posts, but Darkfall had only a European server for a while, and US players actually had pretty tolerable latency and were not at a serious disadvantage despite 100% FPS aiming and movement. They later opened a US server, where US players generally agreed combat was better, but EU was still playable.

 

And if a game as poorly made socksty as Darkfall could handle that, with a much more precise and twitchy combat system than Crowfall, then I'm sure Crowfall can pull it off too. And if they can't, let's hope we see US and EU servers on day 1 of release.

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Because Crowfall seems to be heavily inspired by the combat in TERA I've decided to create a video displaying the issues I have with certain combat mechanics.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM_SDT9tyJQ

 

So basically, you just want WoW style combat with a reticle. 

Edited by Teekey

UkBSCr2.png


CF.GG


Your primary source of Crowfall news, guides, and information.

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So basically, you just want WoW style combat with a reticle. 

 

What makes you think this? If you've watched my short video I clearly protest against any form of "locking" or" targeting".

Edited by timetraveler

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Thank you for the clarification, I see what you mean I think around 1:01.

He basically starts to execute an attack but he's still able to change direction even though he's locked into place.

 

I haven't seen any cancellations in this specific example though like you'd see in games like Gunz The Duel or even fighters like Super Smash Bros.

That's a reasonable mechanic as well I think even though I still prefer free movement, it slightly reminds me of Blade Symphony.

The problem you have with free movement, is you get Darkfall. A bunch of noobs running around swinging a sword, with no weight to it, willy nilly seeing who can be the most annoying maneuver-er on the field. To have believable combat, you need weapons with weight. Having weapons with weight implies you cannot run full speed, swinging a sword in a down-left angle and expect to hit your target. If you've ever punched another person (with real force), you will know that unless you put your entire body into it (legs, hips, upper body, arm), you are not going to do anything (and end up hurting yourself and getting ktfo) if you do not do this - unless you are Bruce Lee. Same thing with a sword or other melee weapon. You need to have form. Form = power.

 

Now, I am not implying I want anything to be realistic. I am saying that I want believable combat. Not locking animations will = unbelievable and spammy combat. What I find annoying with some developers is they tend to root you until your animation is finished. Hence, animation root. In Dark Souls 2, if you go to break their guard or stab forward, you can cancel your attack (up to the point of commitment). This leads to more advanced techniques within combat and also requires players to recognize player behavior in addition to the different types of attacks a weapon can commit too.

 

It creates believable combat.

 

Also, to clarify my noob comment on Darkfall players, simple reality is I don't care how much skill someone thinks they have... They are playing a game that makes them look like a noob because the combat is not believable. It's just what they have to make due with. Kind of like how I have no choice but to hear the #*$)& kid above my GF's apartment run from one side of the room to the other and jump stomp the floor as hard as he can for the next 2 hours. It's just what I have to make due with.

E: Because PKing RL kids is illegal.

Edited by Funpire

 

 

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What makes you think this? If you've watched my short video I clearly protest against any form of "locking" or" targeting".

I never said targeting. But having no animation lock is just going to cause stupid jump spamming. Like WoW. Edited by Teekey

UkBSCr2.png


CF.GG


Your primary source of Crowfall news, guides, and information.

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I never said targeting. But having no animation lock is just going to cause stupid jump spamming. Like WoW.

 

Darkfall had no animation locks or roots at all and had no issue with jumping. Few people jumped in combat because it costed stamina, and jumping also limited your overall agility and ability to dodge, except in rare specific cases.

 

Example of Darkfall combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNuBOn3L7es

 

A few people jump in that video, but you'll notice they die quite quickly. Check out 4:14, 4:26, 4:31, and 5:19 to see the way he lines up the shot so he always lands it when they jump or when they're coming back down to the ground. Jumping was rarely ever done by highly skilled players, and was a great way of getting yourself killed much more quickly.

Edited by Zarithas

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Darkfall had no animation locks or roots at all and had no issue with jumping. Few people jumped in combat because it costed stamina, and jumping also limited your overall agility and ability to dodge, except in rare specific cases.

 

Example of Darkfall combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNuBOn3L7es

 

A few people jump in that video, but you'll notice they die quite quickly. Check out 4:14, 4:26, 4:31, and 5:19 to see the way he lines up the shot so he always lands it when they jump or when they're coming back down to the ground. Jumping was rarely ever done by highly skilled players, and was a great way of getting yourself killed much more quickly.

 

ah I totally forgot about that guy... one of the few that kept posting destroyer vids..

cheers

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ah I totally forgot about that guy... one of the few that kept posting destroyer vids..

cheers

 

I'm pretty sure the final verdict is that he was the best/most effective NA player, or at the very least top 3. You had to be really damn good to play destroyer and not get kited and killed all the time.

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This is the video that has been going around our office:

 

He does a really good job defining how the various games work.

That's an extremely good example video and very good reason to go with such kinds of combat.

 

I'd like to suggest though that movement during combat be more deliberate and archetype specific to distinguish roles and emphasize strategy. That and maybe offer more frequent defensive actions and less offensive combo length.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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This is the video that has been going around our office: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RGzzS1jGJc

 

He does a really good job defining how the various games work.

 

I've literally had this video favorited since he made it. This discussion comes up all the time in various places throughout the internet and this is really the best thing I've found to illustrate it.

Edited by leiloni

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