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Please Take The Eternal Kingdoms Back To The Drawing Board

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Hopefully they have some gamblin' in the EK.  That's what's really important.  Gamblin' and boozin'.  Maybe some whorin'.  Gamblin', boozin', and whorin'.  In the EK.  That's all I'm asking for.

betting on who wins GvGs is really fun :P


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Hopefully they have some gamblin' in the EK.  That's what's really important.  Gamblin' and boozin'.  Maybe some whorin'.  Gamblin', boozin', and whorin'.  In the EK.  That's all I'm asking for.

There's a sizable portion of people who don't care about that kind of thing. A big point I'm trying to make is that if they're just social hubs and bling rooms then there's no real reason for them to exist, much less be a development focus.

Edited by Psyentific

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There's a sizable portion of people who don't care about that kind of thing. A big point I'm trying to make is that if they're just social hubs and bling rooms then there's no real reason for them to exist, much less be a development focus.

 

LIES!

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The one thing that makes me completely OK with the EK right now is the sheer ammount of unknowns surrounding it. I don't yet know how much time I'll be spending there, what all there is to do there etc.

 

I'm kind of hoping that the PKs in or linked to a central high security area and are completely unconquerable while there are surrounding areas much like EVE's null sec. The main difference between the EK and tranquility being that while EVE is one big server with all the resources in EK resources from campaigns arean absolute requirement to be very competitive.

 

One of the cool things about this is it could really lead to some massive power shake ups. You have groups dedicated to the EK holding dominance there while groups more dedicated to tge campaigns store up vast hordes of resources in thei personal kingdoms. Every once in awhile these groups may put their conquests in the campaign on hold, take their great hordes or equipment, and explode out into the outer regions quickly burning through all their high end equipment in a highly destructive Blitzkrieg campaign. Maybe they'll keep enough wealth in reserve to carve out a holding in the EK, and maybe they'll content themselves with kicking over most of "Uncle Bob's" sandcastles. Leaving a power vacuum for other powers to exploit.


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The one thing that makes me completely OK with the EK right now is the sheer ammount of unknowns surrounding it. I don't yet know how much time I'll be spending there, what all there is to do there etc.

 

I'm kind of hoping that the PKs in or linked to a central high security area and are completely unconquerable while there are surrounding areas much like EVE's null sec. The main difference between the EK and tranquility being that while EVE is one big server with all the resources in EK resources from campaigns arean absolute requirement to be very competitive.

 

One of the cool things about this is it could really lead to some massive power shake ups. You have groups dedicated to the EK holding dominance there while groups more dedicated to tge campaigns store up vast hordes of resources in thei personal kingdoms. Every once in awhile these groups may put their conquests in the campaign on hold, take their great hordes or equipment, and explode out into the outer regions quickly burning through all their high end equipment in a highly destructive Blitzkrieg campaign. Maybe they'll keep enough wealth in reserve to carve out a holding in the EK, and maybe they'll content themselves with kicking over most of "Uncle Bob's" sandcastles. Leaving a power vacuum for other powers to exploit.

So the Gods, with their EKs see that Uncle Bob and Mean Ol' Mittani are amassing power and becoming huge. Maybe even huge enough to rival them. So the Gods put aside their squabbling and kick Uncle Bob and Mean Ol' Mittani over, to preserve their overaching monopoly on Ultimate Power.


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One of the cool things about this is it could really lead to some massive power shake ups. You have groups dedicated to the EK holding dominance there while groups more dedicated to tge campaigns store up vast hordes of resources in thei personal kingdoms. Every once in awhile these groups may put their conquests in the campaign on hold, take their great hordes or equipment, and explode out into the outer regions quickly burning through all their high end equipment in a highly destructive Blitzkrieg campaign. Maybe they'll keep enough wealth in reserve to carve out a holding in the EK, and maybe they'll content themselves with kicking over most of "Uncle Bob's" sandcastles. Leaving a power vacuum for other powers to exploit.

 

Dude, take 10 minutes and read the Campaigns and Kingdom FAQ.

 

There's no competing in the Eternal Kingdom (except for social prestige, I guess). A King can literally just ban any enemy from entering their Kingdom, if they so choose.

 

"Kingdoms are optional social hubs"


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Dude, take 10 minutes and read the Campaigns and Kingdom FAQ.

 

There's no competing in the Eternal Kingdom (except for social prestige, I guess). A King can literally just ban any enemy from entering their Kingdom, if they so choose.

 

"Kingdoms are optional social hubs"

OH LOOK AN ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT AREA OF THE GAME

WOW, GREAT NEWS

 

So if the EKs are just glorified titty bars, what are all my resources going to? Incrementally better gear for me, +7s intead of +6s? Bigger breasts and prettier wenches? Pfah.

Now we run into the Planetside problem, where the fighting might be great but there's no real reason to fight outside of its own sake. If a big chunk of my resources and rewards are going into the EK, but I can't actually do anything with the EK, it's pointless. Now there's no big overarching goal, no taking down a rival guild, no nothing. Win the campaign to get the resources which makes your number bigger and your flag more ornate.

Whoopdefuggendoo.

Edited by Psyentific

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OH LOOK AN ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT AREA OF THE GAME

WOW, GREAT NEWS

 

So if the EKs are just glorified titty bars, what are all my resources going to? Incrementally better gear for me, +7s intead of +6s? Bigger breasts and prettier wenches? Pfah.

Now we run into the Planetside problem, where the fighting might be great but there's no real reason to fight outside of its own sake. If a big chunk of my resources and rewards are going into the EK, but I can't actually do anything with the EK, it's pointless. Now there's no big overarching goal, no taking down a rival guild, no nothing. Win the campaign to get the resources which makes your number bigger and your flag more ornate. Whoop-de-fuggen-doo.

 

Read this: http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2953-my-main-concerns/?p=73858

 

Basically what will happen: Guilds with big economic Kingdoms will spam the Faction war campaigns where they can import their gear advantage. The real men will play 'terminator rules' where there's no outside advantage.

 

@jtoddcoleman seemingly confirms that there is little to no point in the Eternal Kingdom for those that don't want to take an item advantage into the campaigns.


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So if the EKs are just glorified titty bars, what are all my resources going to? Incrementally better gear for me, +7s intead of +6s? Bigger breasts and prettier wenches? Pfah.

Now we run into the Planetside problem, where the fighting might be great but there's no real reason to fight outside of its own sake.

I think that's why they added the idea of Kingdom Wars, to make Eternal Kingdoms something more than trophy rooms for those that want the additional risks.

 

I'm thinking I really agree with the OP's sentiment.  I feel as if the EK's aren't very well thought out.  It seems like the vassal system, the fealty system, these player made Kingdoms are a major focus of the design, but at the same time, we all have our personal private kingdoms, if we want.  And some folks only want to MOBA and can just ignore this entire major feature.

 

I said this somewhere else on a different topic, but the same applies here.  I'm either really missing something, or the devs haven't really thought this through.  In this case though, they might be just trying to appeal to everybody with the EK. 

 

It's endgame content, it's completely ignorable, it's Hello Kitty build a house dress-up game, all depending on what you want it to be!

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It's endgame content, it's completely ignorable, it's Hello Kitty build a house dress-up game, all depending on what you want it to be!

That's not good though; There has to be some kind of clear vision on what it is, what it does, what it should be. If it's just this vague, nebulous fun thing in concept, then it's going to wind up being this scatter-brained unfocused thing in development, and carrying through to release nobody's really gonna know what to make of it.

 

@Devs; Boil the concept of what an Eternal Kingdom is right down to three sentences. "This is what it is. This is what it does. This is who it appeals to."

Edited by Psyentific

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I think that's why they added the idea of Kingdom Wars, to make Eternal Kingdoms something more than trophy rooms for those that want the additional risks.

 

Except, they're completely optional. Basically for funsies. What happened to the Play to Crush mantra?


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How about we actually wait for all of the information to be released before calling for massive reforms in the Crowfall world :|

 

I don't really feel like pooling all the info they've dropped about them, but there is plenty out there to comment on. They may not have a fully baked system in mind, but they put the ideas out there, and explicitly ask for our opinions. So I don't get this objection.

 

Sure it does. Just allow people to buy building designs (which still require collecting resource to build). Then let people buy decorations (and also earn some within the game.

 

Good point, at least on items, but land itself will be off the table.

 

Yes, I know. And I'm all for it.

 

But I also like this game, and want them to make money... My observation is that people will not pay extra for things that do not have very tangible perks to their experience.

 

Why would a guild pay for more virtual turf, either in $ or play-time, if there is no reward to doing so other than "huzzah! another empty building!"? They wont - at least not in great enough numbers to offset datacenter costs.

 

Now if my $ is going to finance a kingdom we built with the same exact materials as everyone else, on parcels I'm paying for, and we need to keep people from kicking that over? Now we're talking. If I cannot "lose" those parcels I am paying for, but the buildings can be torched - great! I will keep paying, my guild will keep playing, and we will rebuild - then go break off our collective foot in someone's backside for crossing us. ;)

 

"Reward" is much broader than just the end-game-of-thrones (see what I did there?). "Reward" can be social attention or a Candy Crush-esque dopamine rush.

 

If mobile gaming and pay to play gaming has taught us anything, it is that people will pay money for all sorts of stuff.  But the key is that it should not be tied into the end-game-of-thrones.  So that is why I want them separated.  

 

 

Simple answer: Because it would take you 6 months to do something solo that your guild can do together in 6 days.

 

 

Yeah, but what's the point of doing it?  I suppose they haven't fleshed out the benefits of cohabitation enough, so maybe there are some reasons (trainers, etc), but I am not really seeing it.

Edited by virt

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That's not good though; There has to be some kind of clear vision on what it is, what it does, what it should be. If it's just this vague, nebulous fun thing in concept, then it's going to wind up being this scatter-brained unfocused thing in development, and carrying through to release nobody's really gonna know what to make of it.

 

@Devs; Boil the concept of what an Eternal Kingdom is right down to three sentences. "This is what it is. This is what it does. This is who it appeals to."

 

I think that hits the nail on the head, so to speak - that right now EKs seem to be too nebulous. In a not-great way, they remind me of PlayStation Home apartments, which were basically just environments that you could decorate. Obviously there is a little more to it considering that the user can build/design their own space to a certain degree, but it becomes a minor time/resource sink with the sole purpose of ... what? Hanging out by the hearth? There isn't stake in it, there is no motivation beyond build a great hall and a bedroom and hoarding your treasure there.

 

There are a lot of ideas that have been coming from the eager player base, and some of them have been good. I'll probably through my own two cents in at some point, but I trust (and want to believe) the devs are going through and collecting ideas, effectively crowd-sourcing some design elements that fit with the overall theme of the game.

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I think that hits the nail on the head, so to speak - that right now EKs seem to be too nebulous. In a not-great way, they remind me of PlayStation Home apartments, which were basically just environments that you could decorate. Obviously there is a little more to it considering that the user can build/design their own space to a certain degree, but it becomes a minor time/resource sink with the sole purpose of ... what? Hanging out by the hearth? There isn't stake in it, there is no motivation beyond build a great hall and a bedroom and hoarding your treasure there.

 

There are a lot of ideas that have been coming from the eager player base, and some of them have been good. I'll probably through my own two cents in at some point, but I trust (and want to believe) the devs are going through and collecting ideas, effectively crowd-sourcing some design elements that fit with the overall theme of the game.

Ideally, they'd get that core concept, that "What it is, what it does", bounce that off us to see what we think, then get to work.


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I do agree that we need more information. Eternal Kingdom's have the potential to be something more than just "glorified lobbies" and I hope they are, but if they do not, and were never intended, to have anything to do with the "end game" then it needs to be said in clear and preferably bold terms so people will stop speculating and making more into this than what is intended. There is a lot of potential here that I would love to continue to discuss and give suggestions on, but that might just be wasted effort until we hear more from Todd about what these things are actually for and to clear up this confusion.

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There's a simple fix to this. They need to pair Guilds and Fealty tree.

 

Next, they alter how you join the guild - by swearing allegiance to ANY member of it. So basically it's just a huge chain of Allegiance, all the way up to one person who has sworn fealty to no one. If this sounds familiar, Asheron's Call 1 & 2 had a similar system.

 

After you swear Fealty to someone, your land gets added onto their Kingdom. You still own your land, but the Monarch can still tweak the rules of the overall Kingdom (as a Monarch should). When you win rewards from a campaign, you get to keep them and use them to benefit your land and your Vassal's, but a portion of them go to the person you pledged allegiance to within the Fealty tree (just like resources they receive are taxed by those above them). And when people pledge Allegiance to you, their land gets added to your domain within the Kingdom.

 

This allows you to work for your own person gains (for you and your own Vassals), while still contributing to the Kingdom as a whole.

 

If you get kicked out - you get to take your land - and all your Vassal's land with you. Essentially, you become the Monarch of your own Kingdom. But maybe you don't get kicked out. Maybe you outgrow your Monarch (gain more Vassals under you then they have without you) and decide to become your own King. This is where politics can get REALLY interesting.

 

I know it's not your typical guild system - but it takes on that Game of Thrones flavor, where there are main Noble Houses (Monarchs) and Vassal Houses (those underneath). It also makes your social choices actually matter.

 

 

Teekey you really need to be on the dev team! Genius ideas in most threads

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I do agree that we need more information. Eternal Kingdom's have the potential to be something more than just "glorified lobbies" and I hope they are, but if they do not, and were never intended, to have anything to do with the "end game" then it needs to be said in clear and preferably bold terms so people will stop speculating and making more into this than what is intended. There is a lot of potential here that I would love to continue to discuss and give suggestions on, but that might just be wasted effort until we hear more from Todd about what these things are actually for and to clear up this confusion.

 

Yep, I think that is the feeling of a number of people. The game is still pre-alpha, so a lot of stuff might be sitting in various forms (sketches, game design docs, cocktail napkins) and it may be hard for them to tell us something definitive, but it would go a long way.

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