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mourne

Tracking In Cf

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Shadowbane tracking:

  • You brought up a tracking window
  • You clicked the name of a person you wanted to track
  • An arrow appeared that aimed to wherever they were.  If they moved, it dynamically updated.

 

The way CF tracking should be:

  • You bring up a tracking window - what displays is tied to character investment (e.g. skill line, or profession bonus)
  • You click the name of the person you want to track
  • An arrow appears, aimed at their location at the time you clicked it.  It does not dynamically update
  • You occasionally must track them again, if you think they're changing direction, you must update your arrow
  • Based on character investment, tracking perks could develop: the arrow might develop a "hot/cold" color indicator, tracking range increases, reduction in casting time, reduction in cooldown time, etc.
Edited by mourne

"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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So when you ask for 'tracking', like so many other games mis-name it, what you really want is a mystical ability to instantaneously know where other players are.

 

Example: I come from the east, you come from the west, you have not come across a single spot I have travelled, yet you 'track' me and know right where I am? 

 

This concept has been fundamentally flawed in every MMO, heck, every game, I've ever played or heard of.

 

If every player can acquire this ability (say via the Bounty Hunter perk), sure, why not, since 'stealth', another overly misused and abused *ability* is already going to be in...

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So when you ask for 'tracking', like so many other games mis-name it, what you really want is a mystical ability to instantaneously know where other players are.

 

Yes.  Just like when I ask to play any game, I anticipate countless other symbolic abstractions of things too intricate to represent otherwise...

 

Example: I come from the east, you come from the west, you have not come across a single spot I have travelled, yet you 'track' me and know right where I am? 

 

This concept has been fundamentally flawed in every MMO, heck, every game, I've ever played or heard of.

 

If every player can acquire this ability (say via the Bounty Hunter perk), sure, why not, since 'stealth', another overly misused and abused *ability* is already going to be in...

 

Why are you following a game that looks as though it will more than likely have these things you despise so much?

Edited by mourne

"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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How so?  I'm just asking you why you're here.  Reading this:

 

"why not, since 'stealth', another overly misused and abused *ability* is already going to be in..."

 

...just makes me curious. And how you hate tracking, which will also more than likely be in in some form or another.

 

Now, I'll wait here while you explain how my reading comprehension failed.  I'm curious about that, as well.

 

Edit:  lol nm.  Saw your location "daydreams and nightmares."  LOL.  You don't have to bother giving me a serious discussion anymore. 

Edited by mourne

"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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Sounds good! The stalker story has the hunters chasing our antlered friend, only to find a decoy. Perhaps certain archetypes and classes, like the Stalker, could drop a tracking decoy to throw you off the trail. When you "re-acquire" your target and update your arrow (maybe it could be footprints on the ground, doesn't matter) it tracks the decoy instead. Perhaps the decoy could be a crafted item, or even be upgraded into a trap.

 

Also, if a decoy is tripped, it might alert the player who deployed it.

Edited by soulein

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

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I like tracking, but I dont think it should be as direct as clicking a name and spawning an arrow that leads you to someone. They should make it more in depth where you actually have to think a little to find the person you are looking for, while also giving the person being tracked tools to make you lose the trace.

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That's the purpose of a tracking range.  It forces you to at least be in the general area.  Names wouldn't appear in the window unless they were in range. 

 

Definitely like the ideas about decoys/traps too.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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First, I like the suggestions for tracking for CF (Crowfall) in the original post.  My curiosity is the following, having the ability to track a player in your vicinity sounds like loads of fun, but is local omniscience (All knowing) the only way to implement tracking?

 

I have no protests towards unconditional tracking in a small region around you.  But what does throw off my logic is, how do you know who it is you're tracking if you've never seen them before?

 

I want to see more details in this, I don't like the idea of psychically knowing the name of everyone nearby (Maybe I am just making a big deal out of nothing, but I still feel the need to point it out).

 

I'd be way more interested if a player's tracking targets were anonymous, he knows he is following someone, but he doesn't know who the target is (Unless the player has seen him before in the last 72 hours or so).

 

I don't have any other suggestions on hand at the moment, hopefully someone else can think of a more complete idea.

 

Sounds good! The stalker story has the hunters chasing our antlered friend, only to find a decoy. Perhaps certain archetypes and classes, like the Stalker, could drop a tracking decoy to throw you off the trail. When you "re-acquire" your target and update your arrow (maybe it could be footprints on the ground, doesn't matter) it tracks the decoy instead. Perhaps the decoy could be a crafted item, or even be upgraded into a trap.

 

Also, if a decoy is tripped, it might alert the player who deployed it.

 

Well that was awkward, for a moment there I thought the OP was responding to himself with his alter ego (Context, you share his avatar at the time of me writing this reply).

 
I'm totally in favor of this idea.  Also, I think this mechanic may already be in the game (I am referring to a variation of some decoy mechanic that interacts with tracking).  The character narrative so far have been suggesting lots of gameplay elements (Ranger rescuing allies, Druids healing allies, Forgemaster crafting weapons in the forge, Fae killing one particular player).
 
I don't think the archetype narratives are pure fluff, they are previewing the archetype's playstyle (The Devs are giving us the flavor of their ingame role through story telling).

How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Good stuff.  I like the idea of having the "names" be anonymous.

 

This could also be tied into character investment - the better someone is at tracking, the more information they can glean.  E.g. instead of just blank names to track, maybe it switches to "heavy" or "light" - i.e. someone wearing plate armor and weapons would weigh more (heavier footprint) than someone wearing robes and carrying a walking stick.  Also, differentiating between races - centaur or horse?, guinecean pawprints may give away it's a guinecian, etc.

 

Lots of possibilities when you make the starting point for track very basic, and increase its utility and functionality from there tying it to progression.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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Good stuff.  I like the idea of having the "names" be anonymous.

 

This could also be tied into character investment - the better someone is at tracking, the more information they can glean.  E.g. instead of just blank names to track, maybe it switches to "heavy" or "light" - i.e. someone wearing plate armor and weapons would weigh more (heavier footprint) than someone wearing robes and carrying a walking stick.  Also, differentiating between races - centaur or horse?, guinecean pawprints may give away it's a guinecian, etc.

 

Lots of possibilities when you make the starting point for track very basic, and increase its utility and functionality from there tying it to progression.

So why would I ever put less than the maximum into track?


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So why would I ever put less than the maximum into track?

 

Because this game isn't giving you unlimited access to every skill and ability.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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Because this game isn't giving you unlimited access to every skill and ability.

Right. Let me rephrase that then. Assuming my character can take Track to 50, is there any reason not to? The benefits gained by taking five points out of ten other skills to sink into Track would far outweigh the slightly reduced performance.

 

If a character, any character, has any potential maximum Track, why would they not max it out? Expanding upon that, why would you even make track a trainable skill? If all the Fighters are going to sink 20 points in, all the Rogues are going to sink 40 points in, all the Mages sink 10 in, why not just streamline the process and grant them at whatever rank?

 

It's basically the Boots of Windlords problem; If every boot worth anything is suffixed to Of The Windlords for dat 15% movespeed, why not just roll that right into the vanilla boot stats?

Edited by Psyentific

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I think i'd rather just not have tracking

If we have track, it's going to be mandatory in some form for everyone. The situational awareness granted by it is indispensible. Even if it's just a specialized Scout character which has tracking, that means that every group needs their Scout.

 

That might be a thing to explore in Beta; What if we just don't have it. So we have to rely on physically being there, actually seeing them to know they're there. Target searching becomes less running around checking track and more sneaking around and checking on the camps.

Edited by Psyentific

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my personal opinion: I really couldn't care less HOW it works.

 

But what is clear is, that it will promote PvP. No more running around and not finding anyone.

very limited ways to dodge a fight.

 

all good things imo

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I think tracking should not be so much a magical arrow as a system used similar to Zelda: The Twilight Princess. Like a glowing line that you follow, left behind by the player that you are tracking. So if someone set's up a bounty or something, then they must specify the last seen location of said player, and you can start tracking from there.

 

However, tracking, much like in real life, becomes harder the longer the person tracked has been absent. The trail could fade, spot out, or completely vanish at points like rivers or patches of dense grass.

 

Depending on how high your tracking level is, maybe you can track someone who's passed through the same place a you within the last hour, all the way to the last day. This would make things much more interesting pvp wise as you can make false trails and lead those chasing you into a potential ambush. This would also separate the good trackers from the bad -aka: those who follow a trail blindly, and those who remain aware of their own surroundings while tracking. It also makes a difference as to what race you are. If you were human, you'd track using sight, so the trail would be much more spotty (broken branches, trampled grass) and the animal-based races might be able to use scent as well to buff their tracking ability.

Edited by Keit

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Depending on how high your tracking level is, maybe you can track someone who's passed through the same place a you within the last hour, all the way to the last day. This would make things much more interesting pvp wise as you can make false trails and lead those chasing you into a potential ambush. This would also separate the good trackers from the bad -aka: those who follow a trail blindly, and those who remain aware of their own surroundings while tracking. It also makes a difference as to what race you are. If you were human, you'd track using sight, so the trail would be much more spotty (broken branches, trampled grass) and the animal-based races might be able to use scent as well to buff their tracking ability.

That's actually a really neat concept; Player movement creates a trail, and locating players at range is done by following that trail.

 

If I find the target by following a trail, how do I find the trail? Is there a companion ability for locating trails near me, which I then follow?

Is there a Preysense ability, that lets me know if someone is tracking my trail? What other abilities might support this system?

How does this contribute to overall situational awareness, the core purpose of finding something to murder?

Edited by Psyentific

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How so?  I'm just asking you why you're here.  Reading this:

 

"why not, since 'stealth', another overly misused and abused *ability* is already going to be in..."

 

...just makes me curious. And how you hate tracking, which will also more than likely be in in some form or another.

 

Now, I'll wait here while you explain how my reading comprehension failed.  I'm curious about that, as well.

 

Edit:  lol nm.  Saw your location "daydreams and nightmares."  LOL.  You don't have to bother giving me a serious discussion anymore. 

 

Reading comprehension fail: Nowhere did I use the word 'hate' nor 'despise', nor even allude towards them, as I tend to choose my words carefully, you project your own interpretation on them, incorrectly, which is more or less the definition of failing reading comprehension.  What I said, specifically, was the concepts were, and I quote "fundamentally flawed".  This alludes that the abilities could be implemented with better design.

 

Quoting a response inside a quote: "Yes.  Just like when I ask to play any game, I anticipate countless other symbolic abstractions of things too intricate to represent otherwise..."  This is patently false, at least from the perspective of being 'too intricate to represent otherwise'; stealth has had better implementation in some games than others, but what most want, and ask for (I'm sure you've read the same threads I have) is a version of advanced improved invisibility (meaning all the benefits of being 'invisible' with none of the drawbacks, excepting maybe some reduced movement speed, maybe...).  This could follow along the lines of tracking as well.  Of course it may be beyond the scope and budget allocations, but it is not 'too intricate to represent otherwise' as you claim (note how I don't twist your words?)

 

 

Good stuff.  I like the idea of having the "names" be anonymous.

 

This could also be tied into character investment - the better someone is at tracking, the more information they can glean.  E.g. instead of just blank names to track, maybe it switches to "heavy" or "light" - i.e. someone wearing plate armor and weapons would weigh more (heavier footprint) than someone wearing robes and carrying a walking stick.  Also, differentiating between races - centaur or horse?, guinecean pawprints may give away it's a guinecian, etc.

 

 

This would be a step in the right direction...

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