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Free to play or watch your game die


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Well they charge like 150USD for a virtual piece of land Shire etc, thats like 3 times as much as I paid for the game, you can see how they plan on making money, the next thing will will skins for armor an weapons since they all look the same.

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Wrong!!! there are compendiums you can buy in game from a vendor for a minimal amount of gold that changes the appearance of weapons based on race. Do your homework before posting.

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On 7/19/2021 at 11:56 AM, elowallo said:

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I think they have a pretty good sense of it, actually. Do you think the devs would have released an MMO they need to last for years with such game breaking design failures as the current exploration disc drop rates? No way. That experience is easily the most unbelievably unfun experience I've had in at least two generations of MMOs.

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8 hours ago, jetah said:

i'm guess you've never played games pre f2p era and dont have an idea how they were.  right now is about right with how the community should be in game.   the f2p crowd will come here for a month maybe two then most will leave.  many will be trolls and will continue to harass the community.

I think I have played 90% of MMOs released in the west over the last 15-20 years, including a ton of F2P ones. I know what you are saying and what kind of people you are referring to, but like I wrote previously, I very much doubt that they would be interested in a game like Crowfall in the first place.

Those kinds of players usually play MMOs for either the themepark PvE experience or the kind of PvP that takes place in battlegrounds and/or arenas. The only big problem I can imagine with going F2P would be that there's a chance certain servers would get overrun by people from Brazil or China, kinda like what happened to Shadowbane with chinese players.

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On 7/20/2021 at 12:40 AM, mystafyi said:

There is no way to determine that once they stopped reporting to SEC.

Of course there is a way to determine whether he knows what he's talking about: he's not a shareholder, so he doesn't.

 

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9 hours ago, macavity said:

The only big problem I can imagine with going F2P would be that there's a chance certain servers would get overrun by people from Brazil or China, kinda like what happened to Shadowbane with chinese players.

That is a very valid concern. I really hope they don't anytime soon, for precisely this reason. The Chinese "zerg" in Shadowbane was a pain in the ***, mainly for their complete inability to communicate with "us".

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On 7/20/2021 at 4:31 PM, jetah said:

because CF doesn't need 500k players right now.  let the game simmer, they can fix some stuff then start a ramp up in advertising. 

i personally don't want the f2p crowd here.

I like f2pers. They are tasty.

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On 7/19/2021 at 2:51 PM, ToadConjurer said:

After 20 minutes of the tutorial quests most of the f2p players would uninstall anyways. Devs already ran out of money and pushed for release far too early. This game won't make it into 2022

Your name is appropriate.

I come back to finally play the game and this is the morale being spread?

I've got a notch on my axe waiting for you.

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I don't see how people can say "the writing is on the wall" for Crowfall, then turn around and then completely ignore the writing on the wall for New World.. Game #1 launched and closed within a month because it was god awful.. Game 2 - which they pulled their top devs off New World to work on, shut down development all together (lack of funds, imagine that). They are desperately trying to get out of the gaming space all together, yet New World is going to survive? But again, totally different genre with canned PVP - so when the dust settles it'll be a different type of players. 

"Releases" are the most profitable time for a studio. Even if this wasn't a full blown release, it certainly was enough to say money is not a big issue right now. Playing a MMO as a player is similar to financing it - you don't max out in 1 day just as you don't recoup all your money right away. It's a slow burn.

Take Albion for example, it was a disaster in 2017 release and won many awards for "Most disappointing game of the year". They started to right the ship first with stability and then content wise, the numbers rose. Once they were comfortable with influx, they went F2P and towards the end of 2019 became one of the most popular MMOs out there. Then they turned around late last year and sold for $210mill USD, while still remaining independent. You can't judge a MMO by its first 2 weeks.. 

The point is, it is silly for MMOs (especially smaller studios) to full blown launch at once and have an influx of players 10-20x what they have ever seen. ACE has always taken the approach of moderation, even with their "open" beta and only releasing X amount of keys at a time. And if you watched the Dev talks every month over the past few years, you'll see they are mostly where they want to be and delivering. Is it perfect? Of course not but has Crowfall hit its stride? Not by a long shot either. 

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2 minutes ago, Siruss said:

then turn around and then completely ignore the writing on the wall for New World..

New world has amazons leverage for marketing and amazons backbone to use. They will probably recover expenses within 3-6 months, but I think the first sign of trouble amazon will dump it. As you said they have this habit cutting and running with their gaming. This is what makes me really hesitant to get involved in nw, above any other issues.

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3 hours ago, Siruss said:

I don't see how people can say "the writing is on the wall" for Crowfall, then turn around and then completely ignore the writing on the wall for New World.. Game #1 launched and closed within a month because it was god awful.. Game 2 - which they pulled their top devs off New World to work on, shut down development all together (lack of funds, imagine that). They are desperately trying to get out of the gaming space all together, yet New World is going to survive? But again, totally different genre with canned PVP - so when the dust settles it'll be a different type of players. 

"Releases" are the most profitable time for a studio. Even if this wasn't a full blown release, it certainly was enough to say money is not a big issue right now. Playing a MMO as a player is similar to financing it - you don't max out in 1 day just as you don't recoup all your money right away. It's a slow burn.

Take Albion for example, it was a disaster in 2017 release and won many awards for "Most disappointing game of the year". They started to right the ship first with stability and then content wise, the numbers rose. Once they were comfortable with influx, they went F2P and towards the end of 2019 became one of the most popular MMOs out there. Then they turned around late last year and sold for $210mill USD, while still remaining independent. You can't judge a MMO by its first 2 weeks.. 

The point is, it is silly for MMOs (especially smaller studios) to full blown launch at once and have an influx of players 10-20x what they have ever seen. ACE has always taken the approach of moderation, even with their "open" beta and only releasing X amount of keys at a time. And if you watched the Dev talks every month over the past few years, you'll see they are mostly where they want to be and delivering. Is it perfect? Of course not but has Crowfall hit its stride? Not by a long shot either. 

I'm a long time backer of CF, they got my money and spent it long ago. This launch hasn't gained them any new revenue from me this year, in fact it's cost them money to ship my Collector's Edition from China to Denmark.

When they go F2P, they will see an influx of players, some of whom will spend money in the cash shop. Some will spend a LOT of money. It's the way MMOs work these days, Start out B2P, even B2 Alpha / beta. That brings in a bit of money, then switch to F2P and milk the cash shop.

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6 hours ago, Siruss said:

Take Albion for example, it was a disaster in 2017 release and won many awards for "Most disappointing game of the year". They started to right the ship first with stability and then content wise, the numbers rose. Once they were comfortable with influx, they went F2P and towards the end of 2019 became one of the most popular MMOs out there. Then they turned around late last year and sold for $210mill USD, while still remaining independent. You can't judge a MMO by its first 2 weeks.. 

The reason why Albion Online managed to turn things around was because they actually worked hard and improved the game constantly. You said it yourself, it released in 2017 and by 2020 it was changed so much that it had a large sustainable playerbase. That's 3 years of hard work and constant changes while taking feedback and listening.

Now look at Crowfall. They started in 2015 and launched in 2021. That's 6 years. What have they done in those 6 years? They have had a "we know best" attitude the entire time and hardly ever listened to real and proper feedback. The game has hardly changed between 2016 and 2020, there's a 4 year period of absolutely nothing happening except very minor changes like UI stuff and slight optimization, plus them trying to do some weird ass hunger dome tournaments for eSports publicity or something like that.

These are 2 vastly different stories about vastly different development teams with vastly different ways of doing things.

Not to mention that if you go look at their SEC filings from 2020, they talk about how they want to move onto their new project once Crowfall launches. That's why Tyrant made the news post about the game being handed over to him and the "live team".

I'm fairly sure that currently they probably have the vast majority of their company working on their new project, while Crowfall is let to a "skeleton crew" of maybe 5-10 people.

With all of these things in mind, it seems EXTREMELY unlikely that there's a redemption arc coming up for Crowfall.

Edited by macavity

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Meanwhile...I'm just enjoying the game...posts like these make me :(

 

Adios those that don't stay, kudos to those that do, shoutout to those that don't complain. My dollar to entertainment value has already been met. If you want to join up with me, shameless guild link my my siggy. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

MMO Gaming since 99 - If you want good company add me!

[NA] Ghosts of the Revolution |PvX|21+|TS3|Forums|

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8 minutes ago, swiggityswootie said:

posts like these make me :(

If it's any consolation, keep in mind that a lot of the people who "complain", do it because they actually want the game to improve. If people had just written the game off entirely, they wouldn't bother posting on the forums.

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2 minutes ago, macavity said:

If it's any consolation, keep in mind that a lot of the people who "complain", do it because they actually want the game to improve. If people had just written the game off entirely, they wouldn't bother posting on the forums.

If you were legit trying to give constructive criticism I don't think you'd be trying to smear them with this sort of dishonest nonsense:

1 hour ago, macavity said:

The game has hardly changed between 2016 and 2020, there's a 4 year period of absolutely nothing happening except very minor changes like UI stuff and slight optimization

 

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6 minutes ago, macavity said:

If it's any consolation, keep in mind that a lot of the people who "complain", do it because they actually want the game to improve. If people had just written the game off entirely, they wouldn't bother posting on the forums.

I can appreciate the need to complain to make things better...but in reality complaining to make things better is like peddling a bike with square tires. Anyone can complaint and get nowhere, less people can give viable solutions and constructive feedback instead of complaining and get a little further, but the overall objective of a complaint is to have negative intent. 

 

How about waiting, I know a complaint in this thread was that the devs havent responded in a month. 

I can easily tell you that post launch, as a coder/developer myself, I have easily gone into solitude for a month to ensure that my next publish is worth the silence. They have a tall order to fill. 

 

But my end commitment to my previous post, was simply that I, personally, got my money's worth already. I'm content. I wish others were too, but I can appreciate if they aren't.

Edited by swiggityswootie

MMO Gaming since 99 - If you want good company add me!

[NA] Ghosts of the Revolution |PvX|21+|TS3|Forums|

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2 minutes ago, Jah said:

If you were legit trying to give constructive criticism I don't think you'd be trying to smear them with this sort of dishonest nonsense:

There's nothing dishonest about it. I gave the game a legit try in 2016, 2017 and then again in 2020 and the 2021 launch.

To me it felt like there was hardly any changes between 2016 and 2020/2021. If you would like to provide me with a comprehensive list of things that actually changed, I would be willing to examine it and perhaps change my mind.

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4 minutes ago, swiggityswootie said:

-snip-

I fully get what you are saying and I kinda agree on some level. But you should also understand that the reason why these kinds of complaints have a negative tone is probably from frustration. A lot of it stems from several years of frustration probably.

It's like if you have a significant other and you feel like they don't want to listen to you. You end up getting frustrated and annoyed over the years until things boil over and you start acting irrational and stupid.

I think if Artcraft had better/more communication then a lot of the outrage could have probably been prevented.

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There is a problem you didn't notice, F2P will destroy the game within a few months.

From what I see Crowfall has no cheating protections, the engine seems to be built in such a way that cheats/memory hacks are simply implemented.
As soon as it's f2p the cheaters will destroy it.
If it is paid, the penalty to getting caught is losing 30$ of your money and your slowly earned progress.

The game needs a lot of work, it lacks significantly in countless parts (which could be fixed in a few weeks if the motivation is there) but F2P sadly is not going to roll the ball in my opinion.

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4 minutes ago, macavity said:

There's nothing dishonest about it. I gave the game a legit try in 2016, 2017 and then again in 2020 and the 2021 launch.

To me it felt like there was hardly any changes between 2016 and 2020/2021. If you would like to provide me with a comprehensive list of things that actually changed, I would be willing to examine it and perhaps change my mind.

It's totally dishonest. Numerous aspects of the game didn't exist yet in 2016. There is plenty to criticize, but saying "absolutely nothing happening except very minor changes like UI stuff and slight optimization" is just plain false.

LOL at expecting me to respond to that nonsense with a comprehensive list of Crowfall's developments over the years.

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