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Evasion & Tanking

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Carrying on from the '2 different tank roles?' thread, I wanted to do some quick theorycrafting about how 'evasion tanking' would work. Some ideas:

 

  • Aggro Management - This is the first thing that came to my head - perhaps it's not about taking the hits literally, but drawing the mobs away from the squishy allies. Abilities that make you the priority target would be good, if they also buff..
  • Self-Evasion - ...so yeah, evasion is great, but there's no point in being able to dodge like pro if the enemies are off chasing down the DPS-dealing Frostweavers. I'm guessing there has to be a lot of synergy between ability uses.
  • Party Evasion - Nothing to say that the Templar can't buff their allies' evasion and tanking abilities too. As the intellect level is relatively though I could see the abilities being more like GW2 shouts or meditations, to fit in with the stats framework.
  • Crowd Control - Tethers, pulls and stuns could help the Templar physically draw enemies away from players.

So, in terms of tanking, it's more a 'LOOK AT ME HEY GUYS!!!' type character at the moment, rather than a beefcake warrior who can roll backwards a few times. Any thoughts? :)

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I think the Templar is going to be a mobile tank, and more utility than the Knight which looks to be a sword and board tank.

 

Think of the Templar as wielding a great 2-h sword with lots of blocks and parries for defense.

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A dodge type tank. My thoughts are thinking literal. We would be using abilities to dodge other abilities. Hopefully somthing new we havnt seen b4. Dodge in other games just ment the higher ur dodge % was the more ur toon dodged attacks( bear tank in wow). Hopefully its somthing where you use skill to dodge attacks. Like reaction time. As for tanking in a pvp sence. Im thinking since we looks like were gona be 2h swordsman our dmaahe will be higher then anyother tank. So letting us wail on ppl is probably a lethal mistake.

Edited by tduran91

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A templar also sounds like a "holy" person, meaning he´ll be able to buff/heal while providing cover for his allies.

Wrong end of holy, think of smiting demons and burning witches at the stake kind of holy. The signature skill is lighting your sword on fire after all.

 

This game really won't have a whole lot of agro mechanics...the game will not have much focus on PvE after all.

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I would like to see templar as a parry/counterattack kind of tank, as doding around everywhere is more like a rogue.

 

I also really don't like too many taunt skills, aggro management sould be the groups repsonability not just the tank.

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just because rogues are dodgy does not mean that everything that dodges is a rogue. Tera's warrior class makes quite a nice evasion tank.

 

I don't imagine you'll have to worry too much about taunting and aggro management. They're not going to code in a lot of combat abilities with no PVP application.

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Evasion tanking isn't functional if there is no aggro mechanic... and this is a PvP based game. They could give it more stamina for evasion, but static "evasion" percentages and aggro control don't belong in this game, so it's not clear how they expect this to tank.

 

In reality n the Knight with heavier armor should be able to body block blows without a shield and just rely on his full plate, while Templar should use a shield with lighter armor...

 

Because magic, they'll probably deploy artifical behaviors that work to compensate the obvious impracticality.

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In reality n the Knight with heavier armor should be able to body block blows without a shield and just rely on his full plate, while Templar should use a shield with lighter armor...

That doesn't make sense, since any archetype can wear any type of armor, and different types of armor will be better against different types of damage. 

 

Blair said in an interview last month that Templars would get Parry as their right click ability. Of course, that's subject to change. 

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I'm liable to believe that Templars will be more of a parry and "reflection" (as in attack are either physically or magically reflected to their attackers) type of tank.

 

Tanking is all about making yourself the center of attention and making yourself a focal or strong point on the battlefield. Dodging around like a a gymnast on caffeine pills (Warrior tanking in TERA) means that focal point is constantly moving, and means that you group needs to be perfectly coordinated to your movements to avoid fields of damage or oncoming attacks (which the "tank" skillfuly dodged...so you could get hit in the face with it as you were channeling dps). In PvP, this kind of coordination is virtually impossible to pull off and frankly unnecessary, as everyone is going to be looking out for thier own skins. Design wise, the challenge is going to be how to design an archetype that is going to be a focal point of the battlefield by forcing attacking players to focus on an archetype they know will either mitigate or dodge their attack.

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Design wise, the challenge is going to be how to design an archetype that is going to be a focal point of the battlefield by forcing attacking players to focus on an archetype they know will either mitigate or dodge their attack.

 

Unless the damage/crowd control close up is annoying/high enough, Templars have the risk of being Ignored on the battlefield. Which may play to our advantage.

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Unless the damage/crowd control close up is annoying/high enough, Templars have the risk of being Ignored on the battlefield. Which may play to our advantage.

Sure, but frankly, how does that make them tanky and why not just go the full DPS build? A lot of MMO's try to expand their "tank" abilities in PvP by giving the tanks the ability reduce damage dealt by enemies through taunt debuffs (making them more tank/support tha can do damage), but this can be difficult to balance, being either underwhelming, overwhelming, or was largely unnoticeable. CF has done a good job with the Knight by giving his abilities some support and debuff abilities (bleeds, dots, and pulls etc.). So I'm curious how they're going to treat the Templar.

Edited by RKNM

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 So I'm curious how they're going to treat the Templar.

 

Being that Templar is "evasion" tank, there will most likely be blinds/dizzy type abilities, as well as the move speed to dodge slower attack animations with "out of phase" rolls and such. But with enough annoying abilities to the enemy that we demand someone dealing with us while we are being disruptive to the enemy. Since we're not talking pve really It has to be something that demands attention Maybe a "Call" like Axe in dota 2, to force nearby enemies to turn towards us but then have the ability to dodge away in a combo.

Edited by SubAutumn

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I think entirely to many conclusions are being drawn from this one mined word related to Templar, they probably didn't even have the same working idea for the game when they applied that as they have now, or even when Templar goes into production...

Edited by bahamutkaiser

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I think entirely to many conclusions are being drawn from this one mined word related to Templar, they probably didn't even have the same working idea for the game when they applied that as they have now, or even when Templar goes into production...

^ this

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I think dodge probably isn't the word they meant, I imagine something more like "avoidance" or "negation" is the feel they were going for. I can see the Templar having a lot of parries and counters that require timing rather than holding down like the knight's shield, possibly with enough range to block for nearby allies, counter attacks, sweeping knock backs and knock downs, staggers, and other things that match the idea of a great sword user with protective inclinations (and yes, in the right hands a great sword was very good at blocking).

 

Also are there any grounds for the Templar having holy powers rather than just being a religious soldier? It seems very odd that they would given how important the pantheon is to the setting.

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I think taunting can be implemented even with the game not being PvE focused. One way is to reduce the damage your target does to everyone but you. If your opponent is forced to hit with 50% damage in your allies i think they would focus on you.

 

I see the knight as a stationary tank who is there to be a meat shield, the Mirm is the go all out tank taking as much damage as he gives and the Templar is the annoying tank, the one makes you focus on her even though she is not in direct battle with you.

 

When i think of evasion tanking i always think of fighting without hitting. Taking it slow and winning by exhaustion.

 

 

For me Templar would be the "counter" to the Mirm avoiding losing health and keeping him focused on her, nullifying his damage mitigation.

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