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How to Fix Paladins


Slamz
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I tried hard to find a way to like the Paladin. In the end I gave up and went Vindicator, which is a far better class -- in exchange for giving up a pretty small amount of Paladin healing, you can gain a tremendous amount of DPS. (Really, if you haven't tried a max strength Vindicator, you should. The damage difference is not well spelled out in the text of the talent tree. It's huge.)

Paladins have a few problems:

They are a melee class but their heals require them to stop and activate them.
One of their heals doesn't work well in most fights because classes rely on mobility to survive and standing in a heal circle is not how they win.
Another of their heals doesn't work well because it requires DPS to work and Paladin is not much of a DPS class.
Healing Burst is alright but fairly weak, unfocused and with a long cooldown.

In the end, Paladin just doesn't bring enough to the table. Not compared with what a Vindicator can do, and do very well. (And for DPS-healing I found Inquisitor to be a lot better.)

Suggestions:

1a) Give Divine Light a 30 second duration and 1 second cooldown, but they can only have one out at a time. Casting it again removes any previous Divine Light. This, at least, allows the Paladin to move their Divine Light around. (I would definitely not do this for Fury or Vindicator but for Paladin it should be alright since it does no damage and has no running cost.)
or
1b) Paladin Divine Light becomes an aura that moves with them, similar to Inquisitor's heal aura.

2) Make Devotion cleanse DOT per tick rather than one time when cast. Or maybe just make the DOT immunity last longer.

I'm sure there's a million more ideas but the bottom line to my eye is that Paladin gives up a whole lot of DPS in order to become a not-very-good healer, especially in mobile field fights. Making their healing more mobile and adding some more value to them in terms of anti-DOT or anti-CC might help bolster them for the support role they are supposed to be filling.

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I don't really play Paladin, but some of my fellow guild members do. They don't complain about anything you listed. They do really well healing and getting into the thick of combat. They don't have a mobility issue. It's honestly one of my favorite classes to be grouped with. I think your improvements would be great. That would make my guys even that much better. I'm all for OP Paladins!!

Edited by Darksun_
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2 hours ago, Darksun_ said:

I don't really play Paladin, but some of my fellow guild members do. They don't complain about anything you listed. They do really well healing and getting into the thick of combat. They don't have a mobility issue. It's honestly one of my favorite classes to be grouped with. I think your improvements would be great. That would make my guys even that much better. I'm all for OP Paladins!!

I love people like you - "Oh, I never played this class, but it's fine."

 

I had suggested the aura in a post in the Beta forums and that would do at least something to help the paladin with it's being tied to a location for a lot of it's healing.

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Paladin is really strong atm... Pulls our ridiculous dmg for the healing it does with really good tank l. It struggles with people leaving its 'zones' but the game is about group pvp so there should be a weakness otherwise it would just be brokenly op. 

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3 hours ago, Malikaia said:

Paladin is really strong atm... Pulls our ridiculous dmg for the healing it does with really good tank l. It struggles with people leaving its 'zones' but the game is about group pvp so there should be a weakness otherwise it would just be brokenly op. 

Right, group PVP, which the Paladin is extremely weak in when the group is constantly moving.  The one limited occasion where the paladin is at all useful is right inside a keep or similar enclosed area where the groups can't move much.  Which is like 10% of the game or less.  Let me ask you, is it brokenly OP for the worst healer in the game to be able to have one of their may heals movable in some fashion? The rest of our healing arsenal is small AOE heals and maybe 1 direct.  All of which do less than a cleric.

We don't heal as well as clerics and they can be more tanky than Paladins. Plus they can move their heals far better.

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But you cant spec a cleric to still heal itself for quite a fair bit and whack people for 1-2k dmg lol. Paladin has insane dmg when specced offensively with still good healing.

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On 7/24/2021 at 1:10 PM, Malikaia said:

But you cant spec a cleric to still heal itself for quite a fair bit and whack people for 1-2k dmg lol. Paladin has insane dmg when specced offensively with still good healing.

Paladin doesn't have an offensive spec; Templar does.  Paladin doesn't.  Not the same thing.

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1 hour ago, Maverick494 said:

Paladin doesn't have an offensive spec; Templar does.  Paladin doesn't.  Not the same thing.

? You can spec a paladin offensively and it wrecks. I use a paladin for solo pvp fighting out numbered lol.

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Posted (edited)

If you're "wrecking" with solo Paladin then you'd wreck about 5x more with solo Vindicator. Go respec and try it, because from a solo perspective it only improves. FAR more damage and you can still self-heal. If you're speccing a Paladin offensively -- which is to say you are going full strength, not spirit -- then you won't see much difference in healing compared to Vindi. You'll lose Healing Burst but that's a weak heal on a long cooldown and you'll more than make up for that with the incredible damage boost that Vindicator gets. Divine Light hits MUCH harder and Vindis add their fire damage stat to their slashing damage stat giving them a big DPS boost on all their sword attacks.

Paladin has some claim to competence in a group setting, especially in a melee heavy group, since it can heal others and Divine Light costs no pips to run.

If you're solo then there is absolutely no reason to be a Paladin when Vindicators are absolutely better.

Edited by Slamz
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1 hour ago, Slamz said:

If you're "wrecking" with solo Paladin then you'd wreck about 5x more with solo Vindicator. Go respec and try it, because from a solo perspective it only improves. FAR more damage and you can still self-heal. If you're speccing a Paladin offensively -- which is to say you are going full strength, not spirit -- then you won't see much difference in healing compared to Vindi. You'll lose Healing Burst but that's a weak heal on a long cooldown and you'll more than make up for that with the incredible damage boost that Vindicator gets. Divine Light hits MUCH harder and Vindis add their fire damage stat to their slashing damage stat giving them a big DPS boost on all their sword attacks.

Paladin has some claim to competence in a group setting, especially in a melee heavy group, since it can heal others and Divine Light costs no pips to run.

If you're solo then there is absolutely no reason to be a Paladin when Vindicators are absolutely better.

An offensive spec'd Paladin will put out more healing than a vindicator will the divine alone will put out 2x more , healing burst will be around 700 and the holy warrior should be about double.  Basically those fights will come down to skill either way but they do have some uses.  The vindicator wont sustain as well as an Offensive Spec'd pally but the Vindi has more tricks to keep you in melee & from kiting.  Both work & both have different uses. 

Edited by MrErad
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I've always understood Paladin to be a "point defense healer", which its lack of being able to move those points makes sense. Whether that is good design or not is another argument, but it is true to it's purpose. You can spec pixie and friar to pick up some mobility heals if you wanted. Where I totally agree with OP is the very first point: we have to stop and plant heals. All of our heals feel very clunky to activate. I want to activate Devotion and immediately start swinging but the startup animation and GCD feels really annoying, plus I'm I feel like I'm losing a good 1-2 seconds of the power just waiting for the thing to activate and then start attacking. The other heals are equally as clunky due to animation, forcing a stop or otherwise. It does seem that there is an element of animation cancelling in there if you start Righteous Parry immediately after activation but it's wonky for sure.

Edited by Chillmatica
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  • 1 month later...

Please leave my pally alone. They are balanced well and if played right can fit into any small scale or large scale group. You do require some level of brains in your friends but I dont have an issue. If they step out of the circle and they die laugh :)

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