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Guilds need to be locked to Dregs.


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20 hours ago, nihilsupernum said:

The unofficial alliances complete with friendly fire were actually a lot of fun. You had to be careful. However, it unfairly punishes smaller guilds. A group of 50 players in the same guild has a huge advantage when fighting against 5 groups of 10 that must be careful of friendly fire and are unable to heal each others' squads.

This seems like the exact same problem we have now though? Definitely would like to see what "unofficial alliances w/ friendly fire" is like.

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On 7/27/2021 at 11:30 AM, Aleus said:

Winterblades and Undead lords use diplomacy to create mega alliances. They are sitting on the East server in dreggs not fighting owning everything.  They need to drop guild member size to about 100. No alliances period in dreggs. And if you keep is not attacked you dont get conquest points. Only get conquest points when something is captured. Kurgos' original post is about how the population isnt large enough and is on a decline because of the larger guilds just poorly made dergsting on players who are trying to learn how to participate in dreggs. 

So if they already do this (using diplomacy), then how will locking guild number size to a campaign be effective? So lets say the dev's use your plan and make 100 the number. What prevents me from logging on to an another account and participate in a different campaign? I run currently a minimum of 2 accounts in Eve and before when I first started I was hardcore into the game 6-7. What prevents me from coordinating with another guild filled with 100 guild members of a different group and tell them take an L on this Dreg of #2 or #3? Or work with another completely diff guild where their top 5 positions are filled with their guild affiliates and the other server is filled with  their guild teams?

So if you are a small guild and a massive guild dominates one campaign, would I (the small) stick around if I was literally locked into a campaign? You are aware how fast this will kill the game? It won't stop me (member of big guild)  from logging on to another account that is sub'ed and participate in another campaign. I have the disposable income to run 8 and there was a guy in Eve that ran 100. You are literally trying to correct a psychology/sociology problem with coding and that is as effective as politicians trying to make laws for social problems (causes more problems then good)

I think you grossly underestimate humans to organize. Eve is going through the same problem and this "massive war" that is going on is because the alternative is the game dying from the lack of content. I have seen hundreds of these discussions before about the "big blue doughnut" and it barely goes a few posts before it is no longer discussed. A better solution is not how we can kill the game faster, but tools that will make running guilds easier and discourage everyone from starting a guild. Maybe look at the problem not how to screw all the small groups more, but why does players join the big groups? 

I am looking at those large blobs because I want to participate in an organized group with clear concise goals and have many people I can learn from. Not some kid that thinks they are special and wants to start their own thing. Which is why I said discourage people starting their own guilds, depending on the game it requires a lot of effort. It isn't blobbing that is the issue, but people not being organized. The U.S servers has the east one dominated by large guilds, I am not seeing it on the others. I also don't see numbers playing any role as you have a 350 body guild called "Lion Forge Guild" and they don't even register on the campaign leader boards for any of the current servers. 

If I tin foiled this, I would see you recommendation as a way to grossly buff the bigger guilds to be unchallenged in any campaign. Because if I had only 500 members and 100 of them are hardcore. How would I collect the max amount of resources from the server? I would definitely want to lock guilds to one campaign so I can dump 200 in 2 diff servers and another 100 with an additional account into a third and work with a local actor. For those who need the extra help if they can't infer. Those 200 would be split into 2 separate 100 man guilds since it is a autocracy and not a democracy for guild structure. 

I won't be adding more to this topic as I only chimed in my opinion from perusing the forums recently and I am brand new to the game. I also am not going to be active on here since I rather be in game playing. But I highly recommend a clear thought process on why anyone wants to take certain actions or make certain changes. Ex: action 1 > action 2 > action 3. With a lot more effort with research + evidence to back up these changes. I have just recently played the game and I can easily see a lot of flaws in your argument from just looking at the leader boards in game and comparing them to the guild search. YGGbrasil has 107 and are on the top 10 for your east U.S server and Reavers has only 58. Yet Lion Forge Guild has triple their number and actually dropped off the board. 

This isn't a number's problem, but a lack of organization problem. Anyone coming from games that requires serious organization can see that imo. Which is why a lot of the top guilds in your campaigns have a history from older titles where they were forged like Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, Dark age of Camelot, and etc. 

 

On 7/27/2021 at 11:31 AM, mystafyi said:

 

Eve doesnt have zone caps of 200 either.

No, they have a system cap of 6800-6900 players before the server node crashes. So there is a cap and that is because of server hardware limitations just like Crowfall the server limitations capped it @ 200.  Plus if this game has friendly fire and more then hitting F1, I don't think numbers would mean much. Unless you are implying me that this game doesn't require any skill? 

On 7/27/2021 at 11:41 AM, Kurgos said:

Zone caps enter a whole new group of problems when you allow guilds to have 500 members and then make up to four alliance giving them another 2000 people. It then becomes easy as piss to lock a zone out and stop any sort of pvp that is not in your favor.

Which is why I would suggest a guild locked to a campaign so they can't stop me on other campaigns while I wrap up the victory on the server. If you are a good guild leader, you will have the foresight to see that the campaign is pointless and would try to quickly evac to another campaign and get spooled up before the other larger guilds hopped in. I personally would have sent a small team to work with local actors as a back up plan should the main effort in the current Dreg fails. So by that point the resources harvested and allies we have, the transition would be smooth. Then again I always think about the end game of any title I play.

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7 minutes ago, Dr_Tomo said:

Which is why I would suggest a guild locked to a campaign so they can't stop me on other campaigns while I wrap up the victory on the server. If you are a good guild leader, you will have the foresight to see that the campaign is pointless and would try to quickly evac to another campaign and get spooled up before the other larger guilds hopped in. I personally would have sent a small team to work with local actors as a back up plan should the main effort in the current Dreg fails. So by that point the resources harvested and allies we have, the transition would be smooth. Then again I always think about the end game of any title I play.

Which sucks for the losing parties.  The winning guilds will hop around to soak up more rewards and that's a flaw in the reward system.  If you lock losing players to their dregs their options are get the poorly made dergs beat out of them for the duration or play something else. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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Vessels should be locked, yes. They have the tech, and for some reason at the 11th hour completely bailed on export limits. The current system of server hopping essentially allows players keystrokes to create more harvestables and faster mob spawns. It'll be obvious when the next NA dregs, where there is only one, is much more fun and active.

What should be considered is making EKs portable. Let us attach our EK to a dregs, and port back and forth in the same way that God's Reach/EKs work now. This would alleviate some of the frustration that we all feel around guild inventory management in dregs.

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4 hours ago, McTan said:

Vessels should be locked, yes. They have the tech, and for some reason at the 11th hour completely bailed on export limits. The current system of server hopping essentially allows players keystrokes to create more harvestables and faster mob spawns. It'll be obvious when the next NA dregs, where there is only one, is much more fun and active.

What should be considered is making EKs portable. Let us attach our EK to a dregs, and port back and forth in the same way that God's Reach/EKs work now. This would alleviate some of the frustration that we all feel around guild inventory management in dregs.

They bailed on export limits because it is literally a pay to win system. buy another account, get more exports. Because the entire point of the EK economy is to trade stuff exported from campaigns there was no situation in which it would have made sense to limit the tradability of exported items.

Imports still have this pay to win problem in fact, import tokens are currently still a pay to win system as imported items are not soulbound, allowing anyone willing to buy another account access to 30 more pieces of gear, tools, or whatever importable items. Got three accounts? grats your import limit is actually 90. four? your import limit is now 120. The only actual limit to the number of items imported is how many alt accounts you're willing to buy to feed the accounts you are actually using.

Not only that, I was specifically very vocal about exports being a pointless system when import limits exist, and I still believe that. Limiting the amount of stuff one can export directly creates a situation where people have to effectively farm twice to get any reward they earn, and can literally make playing the game pointless once you're out of exports.

We fixed the export problem by removing exports. We now only need to fix the import problem by making imported items no-drop soulbound.

Imports are intended to let you bring in a limited amount of items to jumpstart campaign play while preventing players from utilizing too much of their treasure horde so that campaign economies still require players to do economic work within campaigns. Allowing people to trade/drop imported items allows people to apply credit card swipes to completely ignore the token limits, which is the exact same problem export limits had, and directly contibutes to stagnation due to economic carryover from campaign to campaign based entirely on who was willing to buy more accounts.

Edited by PopeUrban

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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3 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

They bailed on export limits because it is literally a pay to win system. buy another account, get more exports. Because the entire point of the EK economy is to trade stuff exported from campaigns there was no situation in which it would have made sense to limit the tradability of exported items.

Imports still have this pay to win problem in fact, import tokens are currently still a pay to win system as imported items are not soulbound, allowing anyone willing to buy another account access to 30 more pieces of gear, tools, or whatever importable items. Got three accounts? grats your import limit is actually 90. four? your import limit is now 120. The only actual limit to the number of items imported is how many alt accounts you're willing to buy to feed the accounts you are actually using.

Not only that, I was specifically very vocal about exports being a pointless system when import limits exist, and I still believe that. Limiting the amount of stuff one can export directly creates a situation where people have to effectively farm twice to get any reward they earn, and can literally make playing the game pointless once you're out of exports.

We fixed the export problem by removing exports. We now only need to fix the import problem by making imported items no-drop soulbound.

Imports are intended to let you bring in a limited amount of items to jumpstart campaign play while preventing players from utilizing too much of their treasure horde so that campaign economies still require players to do economic work within campaigns. Allowing people to trade/drop imported items allows people to apply credit card swipes to completely ignore the token limits, which is the exact same problem export limits had, and directly contibutes to stagnation due to economic carryover from campaign to campaign based entirely on who was willing to buy more accounts.

I have ten accounts from when I needed that many Bc of the old training system.  Now they are just import bots.  It’s def p2export. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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33 minutes ago, mandalore said:

I have ten accounts from when I needed that many Bc of the old training system.  Now they are just import bots.  It’s def p2export. 

pay 2 import rather

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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2 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

pay 2 import rather

Yea my bad. You’re right 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

pay 2 import rather

easy way to get rid of import bots is to block IP's of known abusers.

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26 minutes ago, Kurgos said:

easy way to get rid of import bots is to block IP's of known abusers.

I don’t think the solution is ban people who bought multiple accounts.  Fix the import system and make gear bound when imported/exported.

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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1 hour ago, Kurgos said:

easy way to get rid of import bots is to block IP's of known abusers.

easier way is to simply make it impossible to abuse.

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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