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New Cutthroat Builds After 7.0?


MyLootNowKarl
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I've seen a lot of discussion on the changes whether they've been Nerf's or Buffs. My question is:  What builds are you having success with. I picked up Yaga's Gift and tried going Poison using  Poisoner and Poison Sapper Discs to build a lifesteal build but its not working as I'd hope. I've gone fro a C tier ganker to an F real fast with these changes so far.

 

Any Good Builds Yet?

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Yeah it's taking time as even the so called great players from what I can see are struggling or just going Blackguard.

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*edit* spec: tools of the trade, brutal fury, shiv, sneak attack, deceptive strength, blink step, blur, minor, disengage, dirty tricks, cloaked in shadow, cutthroat, decimate, killers gift, shadow.

1v1 you initiate: Not great, not terrible. Champs/myrms/vindicators/wardens are still very hard fights with a noticable bump in difficulty due to the missing Q.  Confessors have taken a huge step up in difficulty because of their double ultimate vs our single.

1v1 reactionary: terrible.  If you q to try and expose the target, you lose all ability to mitigate their burst, heal, or escape.  If you don't, you will be missing a huge portion of damage both due to pip generation as well as backstab being positional(server latency and smart players make back shots very iffy)

Group fights: terrible.  Same issues as 1v1 reactionary.  If your expose is clensed or you have to go on a different target, your damage suffers greatly.  Also, you are on the squishiest class in the game and most people know that or have ae attacks anyway.

Imo:

Shiv needs to apply expose, not refresh.  This would give us the ability to expose different targets or if we are initiated on. 

Backstab cool down needs to be returned, preferably with double pip generation on exposed targets. 

Q needs to be 500 ult again, with cap being lowered to 700.  Will still give us one Q on tap plus some in the bank, but will let us have access to a followup faster.  Alternatively give us some semblance of sustain.

 

 

Blackguard is probably the overall answer.  Damage isn't great but it is amazingly tanky.  From what little I've seen they are better at 1v1, 1vx, and group.

-disclaimer- my opinion is based on using decent common crafted gear, not 150 damage+50ap double daggers.

Edited by calqulon
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“Champs/myrms/vindicators/wardens are still very hard fights with a noticable bump in difficulty due to the missing Q.  Confessors have taken a huge step up in difficulty because of their double ultimate vs our single.”

 

^Thats  90% of the roaming solo players 

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I just tried using envenom because of the shadow step nerf and I’m having some success. You lose your escape when you inevitably start to lose the fight but it allows you to stay in the fight and duke it out  for an execute a lot longer. 
 

I know it sounds crazy not having the escape but it’s working. 
 

FYI, When roaming and mount with shadow step equipped then equip envenom when I find a target. Downside is your fully committed once you engage 
 

 

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The current meta is either a full tank build, which will get obliberated due to no movement if faced with a ranger OR "Archery" as minor and then getting "Poison Sapper" so you get an ultimate on your melee tray.
The bow is only needed for the Shadowstep ultimate.

This plays as elegant as football with a broken toe and due to delays and switches and other factors the ultimate will frequently not work. You also can't see if it is up as after the first ultimate (Envenom) you'll need to fight for a few seconds to charge the Shadowstep back up.

At the current point Assassin is completely destroyed except for playing it as stationary blackguard tank which is something some people do seem to enjoy.
But even they mostly use a bow so they have an ultimate.

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2 hours ago, Lirezh said:

At the current point Assassin is completely destroyed except for playing it as stationary blackguard tank which is something some people do seem to enjoy.

I'd disagree. Cutthroat is definitely one of the weakest classes overall I wouldn't say it is destroyed.  

 

5 hours ago, ImaTRex said:

Thats  90% of the roaming solo players 

True, but other classes have self healing and mitigation options that sins don't have while now also out-bursting and out-dpsing us.

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5 hours ago, ImaTRex said:

I just tried using envenom because of the shadow step nerf and I’m having some success. You lose your escape when you inevitably start to lose the fight but it allows you to stay in the fight and duke it out  for an execute a lot longer. 
 

I know it sounds crazy not having the escape but it’s working. 
 

FYI, When roaming and mount with shadow step equipped then equip envenom when I find a target. Downside is your fully committed once you engage 
 

 

Try using Archer minor @wink. 

 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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Try Deadly Infector.

Use Blink or Sneak Attack for Instant Psn
Use Garrote or Poisoner for Deadly Psn.
Use Diffusion for Damage...

Not for a Cutthroat.  It gives your Vandal and Blackguard a Finishing move to use all your Pips on that is decent.

No I don't recoomend to change your Ulti - You don't need to since Shiv is a refresher to the toxins.

AoE do use the Ulti

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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The Archery Minor + Envenom is the current meta and that won't change until someone fixes the current Assassin destruction again or nerfs it even more.
You can find build examples when watching Snowye (Cutty) or Dilbobaggins (Blackguard).

Not doing that puts you into a serious disadvantage against all other players who have an ultimate.
 

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9 minutes ago, Lirezh said:

The Archery Minor + Envenom is the current meta and that won't change until someone fixes the current Assassin destruction again or nerfs it even more.
You can find build examples when watching Snowye (Cutty) or Dilbobaggins (Blackguard).

Not doing that puts you into a serious disadvantage against all other players who have an ultimate.
 

Incorrect.

Envenom is viable for the Blackguard and the Vandal to get a finishing move that has spike damage.  The Ultimate for the Blackguard in a grp scenario can make it viable for the damage output vs the high sustain the spec has.  Vandals are flipping from a pure CC role to actually being able to pump out some decent damage.  They are though also lacking control with the change to Backstab.

In general Archery is -not- needed neither is Envenom Ulti.  

So far your depiction of the class is nearly all completely wrong, as well as misguiding.  There are other builds and there are other options than the very narrow minded view of doing things that you are presenting - as this is not a single minded Domain spec your options are opened up.  
 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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I'd like to purpose a question. Why is it that I seem to find far more assassins think this is a nerf yet in every topic someone implies that there are ways around the nerf to assassin and anyone not finding it are (insert negative implication). I'm not saying for certain but why do 7/10 people seem to agree it's a nerf? 

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54 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

So far your depiction of the class is nearly all completely wrong, as well as misguiding.  There are other builds and there are other options than the very narrow minded view of doing things that you are presenting - as this is not a single minded Domain spec your options are opened up.  
 

What are they? That’s the point of this whole discussion- I understand some people think it’s not a nerf if so what builds are you using because right now a lot of sins are struggling. Saying your wrong go figure it out isn’t helpful.

Don’t need to argue nerf vs buff- lets discuss theory crafting and what people have found that is working well after the changes.

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I have swapped from cut throat I played both vandel and cutthroat mostly before 7.0 I've had moderate success with sharpshooter and envenom spirit whip careless sparring if I take a third minor touch of rot would work also . play style allows blackjack binding shot adding more to strength to get the damage bonus cap. Not a major 1v1 but isn't the worst I only swap bars before or after a movement skill dodge is my most common since disengage isn't avaliable on ranged bar. My dex is important but the main thing it affects are damage abilities most moves will be stuns .if your on your melee tray you can use shiv and whatever combo you like you switch back to bow and use slow /black mantle on 3 targets with spirit whip. Good luck works ok on cutthroat but less effective without blackjack if i remember correct haunt(from banshee) works on ranged tray could be wrong though

Edited by Zaknafein
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What I don't like about major changes is that you need new major and minor disc's. When you don't have the time due to RL obligations, like me, I hate those major changes. Whether a nerf or a buff, it forces me to grind again to get better disc's. 

Another thing I like to point out is there is no explaination given for the major changes. I try to invest money and time to play and craft. Atleast explain why some of my previous investment was pointless. This ain't some MMO where you pick new talents and be done with it. When you need to farm gold and disc's for every build it means serious time investment to get better. And I don't want to grind money and disc's.. I want to group up with my guildies and PVP.

 

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1 minute ago, ImaTRex said:

Nice, How well do you do vs other 33s?

Level difference doesn't effect damage numbers, that is only in PvE.

-Yes- it does give him the stats he needs where the Sin starts to show it's strength but it doesn't effect the damage numbers per se the target receive.

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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1 hour ago, Zaknafein said:

I'd like to purpose a question. Why is it that I seem to find far more assassins think this is a nerf yet in every topic someone implies that there are ways around the nerf to assassin and anyone not finding it are (insert negative implication). I'm not saying for certain but why do 7/10 people seem to agree it's a nerf? 

Hi Zak, ya bud i deleted one of my cutthroats i had to make room for a different version, i might kill off the fae assassin too. I will keep the new one i made prior to patch though. Sadly i do not like the assassin. I also don't feel i am invited much to groups either. So to me I hate the assassin now, and it was my favorite character.

Ill be 8/10 and say its a nerf. and went to a D, other then farmer.

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