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Ranger Archer - why so niche?


SiniKGB
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Playing Ranger-Archer seems to be limited to Elken max-range sniping attacks on low health strugglers during sieges. Otherwise, group utility is low, self-healing is low, mobility is low, and the main source of damage is slow-charging main attack and there are no group buffs worth mentioning.

Ranger-Archers need help to be viable in other circumstances, such as field PvP. One of the following needs to be true:

a. Mobility to kite most classes should be present. Which is not true right now as Ranger-Archer has no additional disengage abilities while almost every melee has engage power.

or

b. Ranger-Archer could become an out-of-combat stealth build, allowing one to run with stealth groups. This way current weaknesses can be compensated by being able to first-strike and pick battles.

or

c. Ranger-Archer could have increased field survivability, gaining self-heal outside of already weak ultimate and access to chain armor. Currently, marginal health leech from ultimate is not providing staying power, in ideal circumstances (AOE hitting maximum number of targets, ultimate use timed for healing) you get maybe 2K health back.

Additionally, there should be archery combo power (e.g. turn ricochet shot into combo instant attack) .

Edited by SiniKGB
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a.I'd argue that Archers are have some of the best mobility in the game. You DO have a disengage as part of your Sweep combo. You also have access to Song of Speed through the Music domain. You have access to Critical dodge. You can play a Elken or Mino which give you Bull Rush.

b. You can spec Brigand for this.

c. They probably just need to lower the cost of the Ult back down do 500.

And yes, I think there could be some cool combos to spice it up.

Edited by Glory
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19 minutes ago, Glory said:

a.I'd argue that Archers are have some of the best mobility in the game. You DO have a disengage as part of your Sweep combo. You also have access to Song of Speed through the Music domain. You have access to Critical dodge. You can play a Elken or Mino which give you Bull Rush.

I don't think your suggestion of using melee engage powers (disengage is a get away power, engage is close-in power) in a melee tray is an adequate for ranged-only.  More so, if I read patch notes correctly, devs are intentionally making it harder to use these powers in this way. For example, can you still bull rush away without having hostile target in 7.0.0 ?

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16 minutes ago, SiniKGB said:

I don't think your suggestion of using melee engage powers (disengage is a get away power, engage is close-in power) in a melee tray is an adequate for ranged-only.  More so, if I read patch notes correctly, devs are intentionally making it harder to use these powers in this way. For example, can you still bull rush away without having hostile target in 7.0.0 ?

Don't take this an an insult, but how long have you been playing archer? The Sweep/Disengage is incredibly useful even for ranged-only, it's very easy to pop into your melee tray and pop the combo(which puts you back in your ranged tray). You can use it for getting away, or even chasing people down.

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7 minutes ago, Glory said:

Don't take this an an insult, but how long have you been playing archer? 

Since CF went live, but this isn't my first MMO. I will make sure to give your suggestion a try.

Edited by SiniKGB
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5 minutes ago, SiniKGB said:

Since CF went live, but this isn't my first MMO. I will make sure to give your suggestion a try.

Check out Rufio's videos on Youtube and watch how he uses disengage, it can be challenging to learn, but very effective once you master it.

Also, I don't believe they are nerfing the Bull Rush where you actually have to have a target. 

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only problem i have with  archers is the range and melee bars are not a 1 button toggle and tray swap is a little clunky.

there ulti might need to be reverted back to 500 potentially (750 is rather rough and was done originally to nerf wardens from my understanding).

Another annoyance i do have with the class though is most ranged discapline skills unless specific for archers doesnt get modified by range bonus so if you have shrivel or something its like 30m range where everything else is 50+ which is kinda annoying.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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On 8/6/2021 at 10:36 AM, veeshan said:

only problem i have with  archers is the range and melee bars are not a 1 button toggle and tray swap is a little clunky.

I agree and here is how I fixed that.  First, I rebound the ranged tray to X so both buttons are right next to each other.  That helped, but in the heat of the moment, I often forgot which one to press so I came up with an even better solution.  If you have a mouse or keyboard that has programmable macro keys, make a macro that looks like this:

  • Press Z
  • Press X

Don't put any pauses in it.  Map it to a button that is convenient for you.  I have an MMO mouse with 12 buttons on the side so I mapped mine to the '=' button.  Voila!  You now have a single button hot bar swap.  You're welcome :)

there ulti might need to be reverted back to 500 potentially (750 is rather rough and was done originally to nerf wardens from my understanding).

This does indeed suck, but in my experience, if you get attackers on you as an archer, 2 charges of Sustain won't matter anyway.  The whole key to that promotion is leveraging your extreme range and playing the stand off game.  

Another annoyance i do have with the class though is most ranged discapline skills unless specific for archers doesnt get modified by range bonus so if you have shrivel or something its like 30m range where everything else is 50+ which is kinda annoying.

I don't mean to be flippant when I say this, but don't take those type of skills in your build if that bothers you.  Not everything is going to provide perfect symmetry with every promotion or every build within a promotion.  Archers range bonus is for bow attacks.  Stick to those if you always want to be in range for everything on your bar.  There's plenty of good stuff out there.

 

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I might have to play around with a macro for it, however it something that should be required to do should be built in.

the skill with the archer realy came down to when to use your ulti's more than super long range imo. Unless your in a super open field which is rare quite often if your at max range most melee have enough mobility to get away or just run around a tree or a rock till you come in close, Range does the same thing if they cant get to you they just sit behind anything to LOS you thats assuming they have some slight braincells :P However using the ulti at the right time to negate there big bursts while allowing you to keep hitting them was something that made a difference between 2 archers. Like a fanatic timing your Q to eat the absolution win the range the fight against fanatics for example, Q also allowed you to eat a CC as they used it for immunity which is the biggest weakness for an archer atm since there dmg skills are all channeled in some way.

I dont use them for that reason however it reduces the amount of disaplines you can take to basicly passives and buffs skills unless u wanna deal with the clunkiness of different ranges not to mention u said earlier archer should be sitting at max range.

 

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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2 hours ago, veeshan said:

I might have to play around with a macro for it, however it something that should be required to do should be built in.
 

It should, but it doesn't so that macro is the best way I've found to do it.

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My take on [Disengage] is WHY is it tied to [Sweep]? Why is it not tied to [Cuncussive Trap] which is available to both melee and ranged trays? Make it so the archer promotion reduces [Cuncussive Trap] 's cd to 15 (from 30) to make it in line with current [Sweep] -> [Disengage] cd's. 

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On 8/8/2021 at 8:49 AM, Wanini said:

My take on [Disengage] is WHY is it tied to [Sweep]? Why is it not tied to [Cuncussive Trap] which is available to both melee and ranged trays? Make it so the archer promotion reduces [Cuncussive Trap] 's cd to 15 (from 30) to make it in line with current [Sweep] -> [Disengage] cd's. 

disengage is the "combo in to ranged tray" skills and forest step is the "combo in to melee tray" skill

Last time they revamped ranger they added forest step to ranged tray and put it on the base class so it can seamlessly weave range and tray changes in to its attack chains with these two skills.

making the disengage a combo out of trap would be a tough thing due to the cooldown of the trap and its stealth interactions I think. It takes some getting used to but using the sweep>disengage combo is a very core ranger skill, and for melee builds sweep>disengage>rapid fire>forest step is always a solid chunk of slippery DPS without eating up your whole melee tray if you feel confident about blowing your positioning CDs at that point in the fight.

Edited by PopeUrban

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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54 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

disengage is the "combo in to ranged tray" skills and forest step is the "combo in to melee tray" skill

Last time they revamped ranger they added forest step to ranged tray and put it on the base class so it can seamlessly weave range and tray changes in to its attack chains with these two skills.

making the disengage a combo out of trap would be a tough thing due to the cooldown of the trap and its stealth interactions I think. It takes some getting used to but using the sweep>disengage combo is a very core ranger skill, and for melee builds sweep>disengage>rapid fire>forest step is always a solid chunk of slippery DPS without eating up your whole melee tray if you feel confident about blowing your positioning CDs at that point in the fight.

Ok, they made those 2 sets of combos. Just because they exist doesn't mean they are good. Both elken and mino have racials that do either of those without the added complexity. If I had my way [disengage] would be its own skill and not tied to a chain. Why? Because [head butt] and [bull rush] exist.

Then make [cuncussive trap] 24 sec baseline. EASY!! It's a drop in the ocean for warden and hardly a buff to the other promotions. [sweep] into [disengage] is a core combo because of [disengage], not [sweep]. For melee the combo would simply change to [cuncussive trap]>[disengage]>[rapid fire]>[forest step]. I can't comment on brigand because even if [cuncussive trap] could be placed in stealth, I wouldn't know if [disengage] would be usable in stealth.

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I don't actually want to blow my trap every time I use disengage and I don't have enough slots on my bar for another skill. Personally I'm fine with it as is.

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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  • 3 months later...

Can we Music Archers get something useful from the [Hymn of Restoration] on the Minstrel Major.  Its basically useless as is and only used for song twisting.   What I think would really help make it useful is to add a 10% Lifesteal bonus to it, 15% when twisted.   Then it would be worth running, and could really help with survivability and in some group comps.

Thanks.

Edited by BalinorLoD
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