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Bandaging while being hit


Taemys
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Making high-quality bandages and just standing there healing while people/things beat on you is not a fun mechanic. If your character doesn't have any CC skills, there's nothing you can do about it. Is there a way to make taking damage while bandaging stop the channel?

Edited by Taemys
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24 minutes ago, Taemys said:

Making high-quality bandages and just standing there healing while people/things beat on you is not a fun mechanic. If your character doesn't have any CC skills, there's nothing you can do about it. Is there a way to make taking damage while bandaging stop the channel?

  • A lot of classes need that bandage because that is their only way of gaining health back. Not every build has faceroll sustain. Some do, but many don't.
  • It's not that much health per second. If you attack them, you can probably out-damage their healing.
  • There are too many random damage ticks from AoEs, DoTs, single-click bow shots, etc. It would be too easy to prevent bandaging if it broke on damage.
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Just now, nihilsupernum said:
  • A lot of classes need that bandage because that is their only way of gaining health back. Not every build has faceroll sustain. Some do, but many don't.
  • It's not that much health per second. If you attack them, you can probably out-damage their healing.
  • There are too many random damage ticks from AoEs, DoTs, single-click bow shots, etc. It would be too easy to prevent bandaging if it broke on damage.

Hard disagree. Class sustain is a basic balance mechanic baked in to each template. The ones that don't have it don't have it for a reason.

If you want to bandage, you should have to get out of the line of fire to do it. Bandaging and recalling should absolutely be broken on damage. This is as clear as the fact that dodge needs iframes. The fact that they just keep going while you're pummeled in the fact is already extremely unintuitive, wreaks havoc on some basic class balance paradigms, likely an oversight, and literally nobody expects to work unless someone tells them, they do it on accident, or they see someone else do it, because no reasonable person believes in their head it should until they are completely surprised that it does.

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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Just now, PopeUrban said:

Hard disagree. Class sustain is a basic balance mechanic baked in to each template. The ones that don't have it don't have it for a reason.

If you want to bandage, you should have to get out of the line of fire to do it. Bandaging and recalling should absolutely be broken on damage. This is as clear as the fact that dodge needs iframes. The fact that they just keep going while you're pummeled in the fact is already extremely unintuitive, wreaks havoc on some basic class balance paradigms, likely an oversight, and literally nobody expects to work unless someone tells them, they do it on accident, or they see someone else do it, because no reasonable person believes in their head it should until they are completely surprised that it does.

And yet, dodge still doesn't have iframes. The vast majority of skills in the game have no counterplay, and there's just no way to avoid damage. I don't like it, but in the current state, the game is somewhat balanced around this state. A lot of classes have no option but to soak damage and then bandage it up. Ult + bandage is like, core confessor gameplay. That's practically what their ult is for right now. I agree that it's dumb, but the fact is, currently some classes need it. Either give those classes some way to compete, or accept that changing bandaging behavior will be a huge nerf to them and require compensatory buffs, preferably to their sustain.

I'm just saying that in its current state, bandaging not breaking on damage is not a huge problem. It's fairly balanced (easily out-dpsed, stationary channel, etc.) and if you change it, you need to look at the rest of the game too.

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1 minute ago, nihilsupernum said:

And yet, dodge still doesn't have iframes. The vast majority of skills in the game have no counterplay, and there's just no way to avoid damage. I don't like it, but in the current state, the game is somewhat balanced around this state. A lot of classes have no option but to soak damage and then bandage it up. Ult + bandage is like, core confessor gameplay. That's practically what their ult is for right now. I agree that it's dumb, but the fact is, currently some classes need it. Either give those classes some way to compete, or accept that changing bandaging behavior will be a huge nerf to them and require compensatory buffs, preferably to their sustain.

I'm just saying that in its current state, bandaging not breaking on damage is not a huge problem. It's fairly balanced (easily out-dpsed, stationary channel, etc.) and if you change it, you need to look at the rest of the game too.

I'm pretty sure the intended gameplay for classes without self heals is to get healed by healers, which is why healers exist.

I don't disagree we need to look at the whole game but the fact remains that having a guy just stand there and bandage out your damage, or watching him port out while you pelt him with arrows looks and feels like hogwash to every player that encounters it. Not having iframes on dodge feels bad, but at least dodges feel like they do the thing they're supposed to, moving in quick bursts.

I'm also not convinced ACE realizes this is even a thing given how little people talk about it compared to how much its actually done in practice. If they're watching streamers its shocking how few streamers actually combat bandage. Be interesting to hear what they have to say on the matter.

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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23 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:
  • A lot of classes need that bandage because that is their only way of gaining health back. Not every build has faceroll sustain. Some do, but many don't.
  • It's not that much health per second. If you attack them, you can probably out-damage their healing.
  • There are too many random damage ticks from AoEs, DoTs, single-click bow shots, etc. It would be too easy to prevent bandaging if it broke on damage.

The classes that don't heal have damage or damage mitigation as a trade off to in-combat healing. Bandages should be for after a fight, not during.

At level 30 with green and blue gear and playing damage classes, I can't out damage the bandages some people are using. This has happened multiple times against lots of different people and classes. I am not a top-tier min-maxer or anything, but I can certainly hit people that are standing still.

 

 

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The current bandage is really just a channeled heal-over-time spell that everyone has access to (requires a reagent) and is interruptible.

They could change it to a channeled heal-over-time spell that only works outside of combat or is interrupted by any damage but I'm not sure how that makes the game better. I feel like the current way it works is pretty interesting. It definitely does help some classes more than others, and some are better at countering it than others but that's true of a lot of things. As a Templar, I have almost no ability to counter stealth. Should I? Brigands counter stealth rather handily, but they can't hold a parry button and mitigate loads of damage on demand. Should they? Does every class need a counter to everything? "The ability to interrupt bandages" is just another thing to think about when picking your class, talents and disciplines.

Incidentally, Rune Sanctuary for a massive resist buff and Freedom Fighter for a total immunity to hard CC plus an advanced bandage is a huge on-demand heal that can't be stopped. But then, that would be my two disciplines, mostly just for that.

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2 hours ago, Taemys said:

At level 30 with green and blue gear and playing damage classes, I can't out damage the bandages some people are using.

What class?

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Hello?

There are healers in the game for a reason so no excuse of why bandages are so strong, they even tick for more than what healing skills can and get you to full HP over time.Bandages are something to help in pve mainly between fights but not to negate the need of real healer you know? And self sustain in general for some classes is too much for a team based game.  Maybe not 100% but at least a small chance to cancel it when taking hits.

Edited by Batslav
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On 8/8/2021 at 12:17 PM, Taemys said:

Making high-quality bandages and just standing there healing while people/things beat on you is not a fun mechanic. If your character doesn't have any CC skills, there's nothing you can do about it. Is there a way to make taking damage while bandaging stop the channel?

If your character doesn't have any cc skills your playing the game wrong.

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14 minutes ago, Barab said:

ya its stupid....I made feed back on this months ago only to have some gen y kiddies try to justify it. 

People hate change, just as a general rule. Everyone who has ever played an MMO has some form of nerf bat PTSD eventually. Any time you change a game you piss somebody off.

Edited by PopeUrban

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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You answered this, by saying you need 1 crowd control ability


Lot's of options from majors and minors before class choice, take 1 and when any player bandages that's your b%tch slap 

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5 minutes ago, Spawl said:

they you have CC immune abilities that allow you to bandage with impunity. 

 

1v1 isn't the standard discussion tho

"Edited for general use of bandage being OP is 1v1"

Edited by Represent
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On 8/8/2021 at 10:11 AM, PopeUrban said:

I'm pretty sure the intended gameplay for classes without self heals is to get healed by healers, which is why healers exist.

And I'm pretty sure, regardless of what was intended, that combat-bandaging currently does a lot to keep many promotions playable in small-scale fights where one does not always have a pocket healer available.

I like seeing lots of different specs in fights. The effect of changing bandage behavior would be to push most players away from the dps specs and toward the sustain-heavy specs regardless of whether they actually build them as healers. Players would do that just to have enough combat sustain because fights are messy, chaotic affairs. You'd see more inquisitors, fewer fanatics, more blackguards, fewer cutthroats, more icecallers, fewer archmages, etc. There's effectively no way to avoid damage in this game, so players need to be able to do something to get their health back after an opponent has pointed at them and pressed their buttons. Bandaging in combat is currently one of those things. If that gets taken away, it is a big nerf to those specs' viability in smaller fights.

 

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Bruh you will always need heal and about inquisitors  they are the best off healers and it has nothing to do with your sustain. it's TEAM based game not solo one you need healers because they can heal and players use them because they like the role and guess what i play off heal and also use bandages because if i use only my heals i will die much easier. DPS is just more than HPS, When you pick subclass and the word "Healing" is not there it means you need friend who can place green stuff on ground deal with it.

 

In this game even craft depends on each other...

Edited by Batslav
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If you need to bandage you custarded up.

As such i really woulnt mind making it something you can only use when safe-ish.

And yeah the cc immunity + bandage combo is super stupid. Had some people refill their whole hp while i got killed by their friends. Like, wow top gameplay.

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6 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

If you need to bandage you custarded up.

No! Not at all.

There are precious few ways to avoid damage, so when someone looks at you and presses their buttons, you lose health. Nothing you can do about it. How do you get that health back? Either you have a healer, you have built-in sustain or you bandage. In a chaotic fight, sometimes your healer is dead or occupied (because people pointed at them and pressed buttons) and sometimes you don't have built-in sustain (because your promotion doesn't have it), so that leaves bandaging.

Needing to bandage does not mean you custarded up. It means you took damage. Again, taking damage is a very common and normal part of Crowfall combat and there is no preventing it.

So .. if we want to get rid of the combat bandage, fine, but that necessitates adding more sustain to a lot of classes (eg. Fanatic)

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5 minutes ago, nihilsupernum said:

No! Not at all.

There are precious few ways to avoid damage, so when someone looks at you and presses their buttons, you lose health. Nothing you can do about it. How do you get that health back? Either you have a healer, you have built-in sustain or you bandage. In a chaotic fight, sometimes your healer is dead or occupied (because people pointed at them and pressed buttons) and sometimes you don't have built-in sustain (because your promotion doesn't have it), so that leaves bandaging.

Needing to bandage does not mean you custarded up. It means you took damage. Again, taking damage is a very common and normal part of Crowfall combat and there is no preventing it.

So .. if we want to get rid of the combat bandage, fine, but that necessitates adding more sustain to a lot of classes (eg. Fanatic)

LOL

If your healer is dead you custarded up.

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