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This really isn't an MMO is it?


WONDERFUL_STRANGE
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This is like some moba/mmo-lite hybrid. This has way more in common with some kind of battle arena game than an MMO. Which would be fine if it didnt pop up when you searched for "2021 MMORPG". Why cant I name my characters? I have to create a name for my characters before I even download the game lol. like wtf? So my female half giant has the same name as my male centaur? Oh look theres a High Elf named...SOCCER_FAN42. That's just some low effort hogwash.

Ok, so its some kind of pvp moba with builds. I can have some fun with that. Lets go. Since combat is all you can do, that has to be great right? Its action combat, should be similar to tera, that was fun for a while right? Um. Well damn. That's a big miss. Ok, well its a guild vs guild kinda game with map control so we can conqueror territory and defend it from other guilds in a persistent world? "Large scale strategy game". Says it right there. I can get behind that. Wait, the "world" just resets after the zergs roll clockwise around the map for a while and then points are awarded? lol what? We are in the 3rd decade of the 21st century. WTF. Im not even mad about the $70 or whatever I just spent. I have a feeling these developers are going to need it for food.

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No, it's not an "MMO" as the term has been casually thrown around for the past decade, mostly meaning "A role playing game that's like WoW or FF".

Is it a Massively Multiplayer Online game? Sure. You can pedantically argue about what "massively" means, but you'd be trying way to hard at that point.

 

Edited by BlackfeatherCo

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3 hours ago, Narwhale said:

Odd thread

Odd reply.

OP is 100% spot on with every observation he made and posted about.

"Doesn't feel like an MMO" - Valid complaint. When I hear the word "MMO" I always think that a server needs to have +1000 players. Seeing as Crowfall servers peak at around 500-600 players, I wouldn't personally call it a real MMO either.

"Can't name characters" - Valid complaint. It doesn't make sense that you can't name characters.

"Combat being a big miss" - Valid complaint. It is very subpar in everything from animations to sounds to feedback feeling to movement, etc. compared to any other MMO with action combat

"World resetting + guilds zerging" - Valid complaint. No persistency of worlds is definitely a huge turn-off to me too. It makes the game feel very disconnected compared to most other MMOs. It feels more like the game is just a lobby with simulated battles. It's incredibly hard to ever feel immersed into something like that when you know that everything will just reset at the end of every campaign. As for guilds zerging, I don't even need to write anything about that, everyone knows that it's meh.

IHaKjRO.png

"Crowfall's evolution has been interesting: when we started, the game leaned much more heavily on survival mechanics. over time we added more and more strategy and pulled the survival mechanics. by launch, we'll be the most strategic virtual universe (IMO surpassing Eve Online)" - J. Todd Coleman, January 5th 2020

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7 hours ago, WONDERFUL_STRANGE said:

This is like some moba/mmo-lite hybrid. This has way more in common with some kind of battle arena game than an MMO. Which would be fine if it didnt pop up when you searched for "2021 MMORPG". Why cant I name my characters? I have to create a name for my characters before I even download the game lol. like wtf? So my female half giant has the same name as my male centaur? Oh look theres a High Elf named...SOCCER_FAN42. That's just some low effort hogwash.

Ok, so its some kind of pvp moba with builds. I can have some fun with that. Lets go. Since combat is all you can do, that has to be great right? Its action combat, should be similar to tera, that was fun for a while right? Um. Well damn. That's a big miss. Ok, well its a guild vs guild kinda game with map control so we can conqueror territory and defend it from other guilds in a persistent world? "Large scale strategy game". Says it right there. I can get behind that. Wait, the "world" just resets after the zergs roll clockwise around the map for a while and then points are awarded? lol what? We are in the 3rd decade of the 21st century. WTF. Im not even mad about the $70 or whatever I just spent. I have a feeling these developers are going to need it for food.

The campaign approach is something new and I understand that it makes it feel less persistent like traditional MMOs but the Territory control and sieges being the main focus is similar to MMOS like DarkFall and Shadowbane.

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It's not like a MOBA, that is more than a stretch.  It's an MMO but one that is designed around large guild play in campaigns rather than persistent world play -- still a far cray from 30-60 minute matches like MOBAs and Royales have.  It's an MMO with many issues, that's for certain, but it's still an MMO.

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4 hours ago, macavity said:

Odd reply.

OP is 100% spot on with every observation he made and posted about.

"Doesn't feel like an MMO" - Valid complaint. When I hear the word "MMO" I always think that a server needs to have +1000 players. Seeing as Crowfall servers peak at around 500-600 players, I wouldn't personally call it a real MMO either.

"Can't name characters" - Valid complaint. It doesn't make sense that you can't name characters.

"Combat being a big miss" - Valid complaint. It is very subpar in everything from animations to sounds to feedback feeling to movement, etc. compared to any other MMO with action combat

"World resetting + guilds zerging" - Valid complaint. No persistency of worlds is definitely a huge turn-off to me too. It makes the game feel very disconnected compared to most other MMOs. It feels more like the game is just a lobby with simulated battles. It's incredibly hard to ever feel immersed into something like that when you know that everything will just reset at the end of every campaign. As for guilds zerging, I don't even need to write anything about that, everyone knows that it's meh.

It doesn't really matter what you 'think' of when you hear MMO. Your immersion is completely subjective. I don't think of lobby based 5 man dungeon grinding either, but that's the norm. In my opinion WoW or Final Fantasy are barely MMOs. Are they more of an MMO because of all the randos standing in town? No, genuinely not at all. CF is a game designed to avoid the stagnation that killed it's predecessors, whether it dies regardless of that approach is a different conversation.

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3 minutes ago, Narwhale said:

It doesn't really matter what you 'think' of when you hear MMO.

Engaging into this could just end up being arguing semantics, but I'll bite. There's companies out there who call their games MMOs despite them only having ~100 players per lobby. Would you consider those to be MMOs? Of course not. So we need to look at the industry as a whole to find out what "massively" means.

The matter of the fact is that the first M stands for massively. That word in the context of MMOs has been defined over the last ~20 years in the genre as having several thousand people per server. Crowfall does not have several thousand people per server, thus it doesn't fit into the standard MMO definition.

You argue that WoW and FFXIV are barely MMOs because they have instances/dungeons, but they still meet the definition of "massively" since they have several thousands of people per server. A FFXIV server can hold 5000-6000 concurrent players per server and I would imagine that modern WoW is also ~5000 for most servers.

IHaKjRO.png

"Crowfall's evolution has been interesting: when we started, the game leaned much more heavily on survival mechanics. over time we added more and more strategy and pulled the survival mechanics. by launch, we'll be the most strategic virtual universe (IMO surpassing Eve Online)" - J. Todd Coleman, January 5th 2020

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7 minutes ago, macavity said:

Engaging into this could just end up being arguing semantics, but I'll bite. There's companies out there who call their games MMOs despite them only having ~100 players per lobby. Would you consider those to be MMOs? Of course not. So we need to look at the industry as a whole to find out what "massively" means.

The matter of the fact is that the first M stands for massively. That word in the context of MMOs has been defined over the last ~20 years in the genre as having several thousand people per server. Crowfall does not have several thousand people per server, thus it doesn't fit into the standard MMO definition.

You argue that WoW and FFXIV are barely MMOs because they have instances/dungeons, but they still meet the definition of "massively" since they have several thousands of people per server. A FFXIV server can hold 5000-6000 concurrent players per server and I would imagine that modern WoW is also ~5000 for most servers.

It is semantics, and I'm not interested in taking it any further. It's about gameplay style, I don't really care about defining massive.

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11 minutes ago, Narwhale said:

It's about gameplay style

If Crowfall was just 100 people per server, would you call it an MMO? The gameplay style would still be the same.

Edited by macavity

IHaKjRO.png

"Crowfall's evolution has been interesting: when we started, the game leaned much more heavily on survival mechanics. over time we added more and more strategy and pulled the survival mechanics. by launch, we'll be the most strategic virtual universe (IMO surpassing Eve Online)" - J. Todd Coleman, January 5th 2020

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People consider games like Destiny 2 an MMO these days. It's a term like RPG that doesn't really mean anything anymore since every action game, shooter and more has RPG mechanics.

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This game could have been " the one" we all played for a long time, but it fell short.  Big guilds will drive the little guys away or consume them to where it is just the big zerg vs the big zerg and have a fun factor of zero for their servers cant handle those types of fights. Then people will get bored, or find the next new shiny and this game will have what it had in alpha / beta, 2-300 ppl playing it daily. Pack that in with all the other issues, basic quality of life things, and it will just be poof... gone. You did try crowfall, but it was just too much crowfail

 

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Craftfall it is a niche while all the NPE guilds or crafting societies are long gone after the Crowfall Podcasts KS hype 5 years ago. They saw severe issues years ago and never came back to this game who enjoyed to craft the best weapon or armor and put it on their vendor for sale. And most of the economy is not even working properly, because I know the guilds very well, and most are hoarding items for PvP or get the upper hand in large scale sieges with items, and the performance is simply not good enough at the moment. 

It were execellent ideas, but you need much more content, and you cannot ignore player styles or small guilds inside a niche project like this. It is logic reasoning why New World and Amazon game studios went away with a full loot system. It never works in a massive scale theme park mmo. 

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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14 minutes ago, mythx said:

Craftfall it is a niche while all the NPE guilds or crafting societies are long gone after the Crowfall Podcasts KS hype 5 years ago. They saw severe issues years ago and never came back to this game who enjoyed to craft the best weapon or armor and put it on their vendor for sale. And most of the economy is not even working properly, because I know the guilds very well, and most are hoarding items for PvP or get the upper hand in large scale sieges with items, and the performance is simply not good enough at the moment. 

It were execellent ideas, but you need much more content, and you cannot ignore player styles or small guilds inside a niche project like this. It is logic reasoning why New World and Amazon game studios went away with a full loot system. It never works in a massive scale theme park mmo. 

This game isn't full loot, fyi. It's pretty casual if you look at the "loot aspect", which is fine btw. Because full loot is really niche and wouldn't really work well in this game. 

Hello

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3 minutes ago, WolfsRain said:

This game isn't full loot, fyi. It's pretty casual if you look at the "loot aspect", which is fine btw. Because full loot is really niche and wouldn't really work well in this game. 

Full loot would work just fine if the economy, crafting, and loot system weren't mediocre.

EVE and Albion both function fine with full loot, so have previous less successful MMOs.

Softcore loot games like this one are in a weird middle ground with little risk v reward, low loss, and yet the entire game revolves around doing PVE and grinding for more shiny drops.

This game could function with easy come easy go but would require some retooling. Albion's system of mobs dropping player crafting items is worthy of copying as well.

If a game is going to be a niche "PVP" game, makes no sense to have such a low risk factor.

 


 

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I think your problem is that you want something you have played before because most other games do exactly that - copy previous games. Try something new but in order to do that you need to let go of prejudice and that takes effort.

Mammals in general have an inherited fear of new and humans are still mammals. Takes neocortex (the part of the brain humans have over mammals) to 'want to explore' and that's a conscious choice. It's up to each of us to want to make that choice.

It has bugs and lacks polish, balance and quality of life - making it hard to swallow - I totally agree on that part.

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Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
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1 hour ago, APE said:

If a game is going to be a niche "PVP" game, makes no sense to have such a low risk factor.

The low risk is so players can amass a gear advantage for pvp. Uncle bob would be proud. 

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Risk is super low. I remember in UO you could kill a player and then cut his corpse into pieces. This game should have full vessel loot system - you kill and then you can cut off leg or legendary head and use it yourself. Overall it's amazing experience.

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