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Tyrant

02/27/15 - Distribution/hosting Outside Of North America For Crowfall

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From the Netherlands here.

 

Going to echo that localisation is not a priority. Although people on this forum will likely present a biased sample (being on an english forum and being here early), I think this is nonetheless true for most European players. That said, there is a difference between localisation of the language of the game and specifying servers as being country/region specific. The latter often happens (unofficially) anyway, because most countries have their own popular gaming websites/forums and pick out specific servers. I don't mind occassionally have to scroll past some foreign language, but it is annoying when I start on a server and later realize that it has been dubbed the 'unofficial' slavic server and all english-speaking players abandon it. The shorter duration of campaigns should give you some leeway in seeing how this plays out however. I suspect it is difficult to plan for it so it's probably best to keep it simple.

 

My personal experiences with euro publishers have been poor. For example, the last game I wanted to play I had an old (US based) account, but because the company had forcefully moved all european players to use a seperate european publisher, I was unable to log into my account at all. I was no longer even able to play the game.

 

Game updates is a big deal. European players read english (=American) forums, information spreads quickly. It's not enjoyable to know in advance exactly how a certain game patch/update will play out. I don't want to wait longer than a day for it.

 

Something that I haven't seen mentioned (although I haven't read all 9 pages carefully) is the wide variety of payment options available in different European countries. For me personally CC would not an option, paypal is possible but a hassle and I'd much rather use the system (iDeal) that is in place here. Of course, that system is specific for my country and I could fully understand that it'd be difficult to set it up by yourself.

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This link might be of interest to this topic.

http://tech.eu/features/3543/kickstarter-europe-stats-2014/

Hey GordonWalton,

 

I'm certainly sure that the most of european guys who are willing to back for Crowfall are waiting till they are seeing an announcement who is going to be the publisher. I know literally 10+ people who wanna pledge to the game but aren't going to since they don't want to spend money without knowing it before and I'm sure there are thousand of other people who have exactly the same thinking.

 

As I'm aware of I actually only know one EU publisher and that would be "GamersFirst", they got All Points Bulletin Reloaded in their hands currently and I personally like the company but that's a matter of taste.

 

Short quote from GamersFirst:

 

 

GamersFirst is a global Free2Play publisher

 

That means, as I know Crowfall will be Buy2Play (which is awesome) so you have to know if it even will work but I guess you know what I'm trying to say.

 

Well, the best solution is for sure that yo uguys are going to be the publisher, set up one server in Frankfurt (which shouldn't be too hard) and you're going to handle the support which would by far the best turn for all of us as dozen of times said. Please, you guys should think about it before oyu consider giving the game to another publisher. Most likely, different publisher are destroying the game since they literally don't care about the community at all.


t70C8a9.png     "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it's limits."  - Albert Einstein

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I don't see any problems with them just renting some servers in EU and hosting the game here themselves.

 

Other small developers already did that. HiRez with Global Agenda, Adhesive Games with Hawken.

No external publisher needed to get EU servers running.

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Well, a smaller country like the Netherlands can never compete with the US and the UK. But, the average amount per citizen pledged seems to be higher in the Netherlands. That is interesting imo. 

 

Actually no, the UK has about $0.6 pledged per capita, meanwhile The Netherlands has only approximately $0.37 pledged per capita.

 

Also not sure if I would classify The Netherlands as small with it's 16+ million citizens, one of the largest populations excluding the giants(UK, France, Germany, Spain). :P

Edited by Zushakon

Member of The BlackHand Order

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"I'm certainly sure that the most of european guys who are willing to back for Crowfall are waiting till they are seeing an announcement who is going to be the publisher." 

 

 

 

This will probably happen this Week since I got a E-Mail from the Support that something like a Maestro Card is going to be accepted and we will be able to support the Game through this.

 

 

Edited by FlameGod

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I don't think it's KS per sé but there was a time where CC (and KS only accepts CCs) was an atypical payment method in some countries of the EU. Was.

It still mostly is.

 

You can pay just fine with your normal bank card. Which doesn#t is a CC perse and hasnt the features of it.

But you can even get into the minus in the range of 1~2k Euros. Without problems. Just with horrifying interest rates xD.

 

So CC are rarely used by us. Atleast i don't know anyone using a CC.

Why bother paying extra money for the transaction, when it's free of charge for you with your normal bank card?

 

I once had gotten a CC for traveling and Internet shopping.

Then Paypal came and some other things.

..The last card i had expired 2014 dezember.

Never used CC, except one time where i paid for a hotle when i was in egypt ... because the "usage charge" was lower then the "conversion charge" then.

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Hi !

I'm from France. My personnal experience is that the average english level in my country is terrible, probably (one of) the worst in Europe. Geeks and gamers do have an advantage and yet most of them are incapable of communicating with english-speakers. Language is very much a barrier to entry. People like me, who feel comfortable enough posting on forums are the exception, not the norm.

I definitely want my friends to play Crowfall with me. They can communicate with english-speaking players on occasions, but I know they won't feel comfortable speaking only english, and in the long run it may hurt their enjoyment, especially in a game that promises to be so reliant on human interaction.

-French translation isn't the biggest priority. I think most players from your core, niche audience are capable of reading english and can play any game that's not too text heavy. As long as skill descriptions and the like are very clear it shouldn't be a problem.
If you have the budget though, french translation will make your number of french players explode ! A lot of people will at least try the game when otherwise they wouldn't even have bothered.
Crowfall is buy to play and that means people who aren't confident enough in their ability to speak english won't take the risk.

-What I think is really a priority, is a way for non english-speakers to find and play with people of the same language. As I said, I think many french players are capable of playing a game in english but are terrified by the idea of having to talk to another player in english.
I'd suggest taking a look at how Guild Wars 1 handled regions and languages. Basically, there was no "server selection" where you would pick a server for your country and would never be able to change. Whenever you were in a town or outpost you could switch "regions" as much as you want. You could go to the "europe - french" region where people speak french or choose any region from any country. You could go the NA servers from europe and vice versa. No restriction. There's also an "International" region that's very useful for international community events.
Now, obviously, GW has a very unique technical structure and not every game is able to replicate it. Still, this feature had great benefits.
Some people in this thread have already complained about getting the general, international chat flooded with french or german. It is indeed a problem. And even if you are fluent in english, it's still very cool to be able to speak you mother-tongue with your friends. Guild Wars allowed its players to communicate and play in the language of their choice without ever segregating parts of its community.

Even if Crowfall isn't translated to other languages I think it should allow people of the same language to find each other and play together.

Edited by OtterSparrow

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hi i am from greece, and i bet all this PvP focus you saw already is very interesting for European gaming community (i said i bet..)

 

about the localization, i dunno i believe it would be better to focus first on server and then on language packs ..

about companies, dunno those i know already are kinda bad, i think it would be nice to coop with a company which already have servers but no gaming experience, maybe google/yahoo ? I believe if you found a good parternship then you will be able to translate easier and with the knowledge from a possible european publisher about the target audience/infographics etc


5a1b3fea-fc4c-485e-87da-0147a0f11ae3.png

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I can see the confusion, but my understanding is that the majority of people in Europe can't use Kickstarter and if you look at Kickstarters' data, the backers from Europe are a super small minority.  The European portion of our web traffic is ~30% of the total.  But we have no reason to believe that that our web traffic percentage maps to Kickstarter backers, and many reasons to doubt it.

 

It will be interesting after the Kickstarter to get the real numbers in European backers and $.  Please remind me to put that out in April, if I haven't already done it before then.

 

It will be an interesting piece of information indeed.

As a European, that credit card problem is something new to me. Could always use Kickstarter/Amazon/etc. without any issue.

On the other hand, the big problem I (and most Europeans) have with Kickstarter is postage expenses that in most cases double the pledge price on physical items. And that mostly does not apply to digital products such as Crowfall with the exception of the top-tiers.

Anyway, looking forward to April!

 

 

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This topic is a big mess.

 

I live in Europe and i can pedge on KS without any issue, i've a visa electron prepayd card.

 

Apart this, ACE should just rent a server in Europe, Germany is the best place to cover all countries, and manage everything from their HQ in the Us.

 

The client should be the same for both Us and Eu in english language (you can add more languages later if needed, just pay a translator), when you buy the game from ACE you can download the client, log-in and simply choose your preferred server based on your region, easy and simple, no third parties, no crappy european publishers involved, no localisation needed, money go direct on the ACE wallet.

 

Pay, log-in, choose the server, and play.

 

Is so hard?

Edited by kdchan

Archduchess Alice

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The client should be the same for both Us and Eu, when you buy the game from ACE you can download the client, log-in and simply choose your preferred server based on your region, easy and simple, no third parties, no crappy european publishers involved, no localisation needed, pay, log-in, choose the server, and play.

 

 

As for me - dat looks like a really good plan. Pay, log-in, choose the server and play!

 

And... сontinuing the conversation about servers location, i don't know about Germany, but i heard that some game developers prefere Amsterdam's servers.

 

Localisation? Dunno about all regions, but russia community(if this game will be GREAT) will translate all texts as soon as you give them source... And If you want really PERFECT localisation(voice, texts, humor) - well, i know only one company that able to do it really cool - Blizzard Entertainment. trololo.png

Edited by RedSRichy

Ё - sounds proud.

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As for me - dat looks like a really good plan. Pay, log-in, choose the server and play!

 

And... сontinuing the conversation about servers location, i don't know about Germany, but i heard that some game developers prefere Amsterdam's servers.

 

Localisation? Dunno about all regions, but russia community(if this game will be GREAT) will translate all texts as soon as you give them source... And If you want really PERFECT localisation(voice, texts, humor) - well, i know only one company that able to do it really cool - Blizzard Entertainment. trololo.png

 

Holland or germany are both fine.

 

Btw, is a great idea, let the community translate the game, just put all the text into ini file edited with notepad. People interested into this will translate the game for their own country, no money needed, fan made and 100% player driven. :)


Archduchess Alice

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All three, London, Amsterdam and Frankfurt are the main nodes for network communication in EU but Frankfurt got an upgrade recently increasing the capacity.

 

And regarding the translation: Hillarious idea but managing multingual strings is a bit more work than some text-files. Most of the times you need at least know how xml-alike structures work. Still no real entry barrier but... c'mon, be reasonable ;)

Edited by Angier

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I know Ronimo uses some members of its community to translate content for Awesomenauts. A friend of mine is one of them. I'm not entirely sure how they proceed. I've seen a dev post on their forums that their Russian community had been increasing in size and so they were looking for people to help with the translation (http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35665)

Again, not sure how that works or how the amount of text in Awesomenauts compares to something like Crowfall, but it's a method that might be worth investigating.

Edited by OtterSparrow

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I can see the confusion, but my understanding is that the majority of people in Europe can't use Kickstarter and if you look at Kickstarters' data, the backers from Europe are a super small minority.  The European portion of our web traffic is ~30% of the total.  But we have no reason to believe that that our web traffic percentage maps to Kickstarter backers, and many reasons to doubt it.

 

It will be interesting after the Kickstarter to get the real numbers in European backers and $.  Please remind me to put that out in April, if I haven't already done it before then.

 

I'm a frequent Kickstarter backer, mostly backing pen-and-paper tabletop RPG's and computer games, with the occasional movie, book, bit of hardware, etc. I find I back less and less Kickstarter projects which just offer physical items, though, mainly because of the (sometimes extremely) high shipping costs. I'm not going to back, say, $25 for a pretty book, and have to pay $20 or $25 on top of that to have it shipped to me (and if it goes over a certain value, I have to pay import taxes and (depending on the shipping company) fees to have that company collect those import taxes). It's no fun to pay $75 for something which to a US inhabitant would cost $25 or $30.

 

Having said that, digital rewards (downloaded books, music, games) are just fine. And some Kickstarters have gotten smart and do part of their delivery from the EU, cutting down on shipping costs and other fees.

 

Note that I'm talking just for the Netherlands, Europe is a big place and I'm not able to make a good comparison between my situation and, say, someone from Poland or Italy or Portugal or wherever. There is a lot of diversity in Europe  ;)

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The best solution is to host European servers directly, and in English, from the start to achieve a worldwide launch.

 

The worst scenario would result in a misguided and offensive choice to entrust the game to a regional publisher who is likely to hold back the launch for a year for the sake of localisation (as if EU gamers don't know English), delay all patches leading to a perpetually one-step-behind-the-US metagame, delay hotfixes resulting in excessive downtime, fragment and disintegrate the community, mess up support and rip us off at every opportunity with the cash-shop, resulting in a sub-par version of the game which will impact the company and, eventually, even the US version of the game negatively.

 

I'm sure most of us just want a EU English server managed by the developer, having local support and localization is almost irrelevant compared to the simple fact of having the server at launch, is this really too much to ask ?

Edited by Mookzen

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The best solution is to host European servers directly, and in English, from the start to achieve a worldwide launch.

 

The worst scenario would result in a misguided and offensive choice to entrust the game to a regional publisher who is likely to hold back the launch for a year for the sake of localisation (as if EU gamers don't know English), delay all patches leading to a perpetually one-step-behind-the-US metagame, delay hotfixes resulting in excessive downtime, fragment and disintegrate the community, mess up support and rip us off at every opportunity with the cash-shop, resulting in a sub-par version of the game which will impact the company and, eventually, even the US version of the game negatively.

 

I'm sure most of us just want a EU English server managed by the developer, having local support and localization is almost irrelevant compared to the simple fact of having the server at launch, is this really too much to ask ?

 

We'll have European servers at launch.  And I'm working to make sure they are localized too. 


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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