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02/27/15 - Distribution/hosting Outside Of North America For Crowfall

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Exactly. I find that alarming.

But lets wait and see.. 25 days of possible announcements to go.

yepp.. im sticking around for an announcement, the earlier the better. im not unbacking just yet because i really want this game to do well. :)

Edited by Forko

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"Paypal Coming, Particularly For Our European Customers" thats the actual titel of the thread, and how you read that i dont care. they are fishing for EU whitout even have a stretch goal for a server in that region/nor do they have a good/acceptable publisher in mind. nuff said

 

Of course they are. There is plenty of interest for the game in EU even without any news about servers, so why shouldn't they give people who wants to back the project with PayPal from EU (or not) the option to do so?


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Of course they are. There is plenty of interest for the game in EU even without any news about servers, so why shouldn't they give people who wants to back the project with PayPal from EU (or not) the option to do so?

i like that the paypal option is coming so early, but it should be in the FACE of the backer when you enter that there might not be a good EU server owned buy ACE, and that the game they are funding might look like complete / feel like shi.t if the publisher they get sucks arse.. a publisher can and will ruin games for money and thats a fact. i just think its the wrong way of "looking for intrest" post a survey instead that way the can see the intrest and then make the goal towards it. IMO

Edited by Forko

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i like that the paypal option is coming so early, but it should be in the FACE of the backer when you enter that there might not be a good EU server owned buy ACE, and that the game they are funding might look like complete / feel like shi.t if the publisher they get sucks arse.. a publisher can and will ruin games for money and thats a fact. i just think its the wrong of "looking for intrest" post a survey instead that way the can see the intrest and then make the goal towards it. IMO

 

Ok so first of all we have no idea how the game will feel until we try it. So even for those backing kickstarter that risk is there nonetheless. 

 

Second we have no idea how the PayPal pledge site will look like and what information will be given out before you pledge. 

 

It is not like they are hiding the fact that currently they are not revealing the publishers they are talking with in other countries.

 

A problem with a survey is they are easy to do and easy to answer. This means that potentially a lot of people will fill out a survey and lets just say that the amount of people saying that they want an EU servers is enough to warrant one. They will still need the money. What if only 10% of the people who have done the survey now actually back their answer?

 

Truth be told I really hope that we get servers in the EU that they control in-house. There is no question about the fact that that is the best solution. 

 

The thing is we just need to trust that they will listen to us, as they have so far, and when the time comes we will be able to guide them along the way to either host the servers themselves or help them choose the most preferable partner. 

 

They have been nothing but honest about all of this - which this thread clearly indicates - so I don't see why they wouldn't want our feedback once we get to that point.

 

Nonetheless we can't get to the point with surveys or answers in a thread. We need to put our money where our mouths are at to get there. 


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It sucks that EU isn't initially in the cards for you Euros, but unfortunately, as a small company I can see them not wanting to bite off more than they can chew. Much bigger companies are terrible at maintaining the servers and getting a good launch experience, imagine how daunting it is for a tiny company


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... and that the game they are funding might look like complete / feel like shi.t if the publisher they get sucks arse.. a publisher can and will ruin games for money and thats a fact.

I am curious: Was there ever a game that was released in America, and was a totally different version in EU that sucked?

Besides games that were censored because of violence, because that certainly won't apply to Crowfall.

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The feedback on lack of need for localization of the game is clear.  And it seems that localized customer service and community for the people here is low value. <snip>

 

Again, thank you for the honest feedback.

 

Thank you for listening and understanding our problem. I understand your reasons for not having an EU server (at launch) as well. I continue to back this project if not only for your team and game to see to fruition. And you asked for feedback, especially what we didn't like, so we did give it to you! ;-) That is one thing you can always count on I guess, people will tell you what they don't like and/or their concerns.  ;)

 

To those in doubt I'm pretty sure this is not a question of if but when EU servers will be available.

This. For the people thinking of backing out: please continue to back this project. This small studio with these amazing people needs our support to be able to run an local EU server for us. They want to do that, but lack funds. They need us to help ourselves. We can do this people!


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THE most active European Crowfall community. Join us now!

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I am curious: Was there ever a game that was released in America, and was a totally different version in EU that sucked?

Besides games that were censored because of violence, because that certainly won't apply to Crowfall.

 

I don't think he means the games visuals. 

 

There are plenty of games that have had things changed when moving between continents. 

 

 

If you take Tera as an example the game in US has a lot faster updates. 

 

Items where missing from the EU version, Support is terrible, maintenance of the servers in general or complete lack thereof is also bad and not to mention the amount of time it takes them to remove bots etc.

There are plenty of more things, like different prices for items, and not having the same cosmetic items.

 

This is just one game that was ruined when moved to an EU publisher. (Not naming names).

 

 

This is just one of many games. DC Universe, Planetside 2, Aion just to name a few, which got progressively worse when moved outside their parent company.

 

 

I'm sure this is what is actually being referred to.


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I am curious: Was there ever a game that was released in America, and was a totally different version in EU that sucked?

Besides games that were censored because of violence, because that certainly won't apply to Crowfall.

 

 

I don't think he means the games visuals. 

 

There are plenty of games that have had things changed when moving between continents. 

 

 

If you take Tera as an example the game in US has a lot faster updates. 

 

Items where missing from the EU version, Support is terrible, maintenance of the servers in general or complete lack thereof is also bad and not to mention the amount of time it takes them to remove bots etc.

There are plenty of more things, like different prices for items, and not having the same cosmetic items.

 

This is just one game that was ruined when moved to an EU publisher. (Not naming names).

 

 

This is just one of many games. DC Universe, Planetside 2, Aion just to name a few, which got progressively worse when moved outside their parent company.

 

 

I'm sure this is what is actually being referred to.

Pretty much what Crueltylizer said.

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The feedback on lack of need for localization of the game is clear.  And it seems that localized customer service and community for the people here is low value.

 

Some people here say (and my experience says) that latency will be an issue in a competitive game like this, so it's hard to have one server for the whole world without a clear competitive disadvantage for players further away from the servers.

 

We are a *very* small company many times smaller than every game/company mentioned in this thread.  The money raised so far is to build the game and deploy it in North America, though access is worldwide for early backers.

 

We've committed to let every early backer play on our ArtCraft service ongoing (which will have at minimum North American servers).  If we can get enough customers in a region we can set up a regional server that all ArtCraft service people would have access too.

 

 

Please understand our current context and capabilities are not the same as the much, much larger MMO companies whose games you have played.  We are an upstart, trying to offer an alternative to the MMO's you have to play now.

 

Again, thank you for the honest feedback.

 

Fair enough.  So you need to make this clear on your KickStarter page.  In the FAQ at least.

 

If you think latency is likely to be a concern for non NA players - you need to say that.

 

I don't know enough about latency, or how this game actually works, to know how much of a handicap it will be? 

Maybe you guys don't know either?  Guess we will find out.

 

What I do know is that only one MMO in recent times has had a Aus/NZ server... the server wasn't local though... it was in Seattle next to the NA servers for the same game.  Although I can't talk too much about it since you said not to be negative... you have people on your staff who should know the story.

 

I also know it's something we (Aus/NZ gamers) simply live with.  I see players 'warping' and suffer from rubber banding and it's normal.  I was shocked the first time I found out my guildies didn't have these things happen to them.

 

Will this game be worse than others due to the way it works?

 

 

In any case... if you (Artcraft) think it's going to be a problem you need to say so. 

This is important consumer information. 

If you say nothing and it is a problem, then you have (potentially) been deceptive with consumers... which is a big deal. 

If you say so and it's not a problem then no harm done - in fact it makes you look good for looking out for consumers.

I don't see it even being a choice.

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I was surprised by this as well, to be honest.  It seems there has been quite a bit of interest in European countries.

Guess what mate, not just Europe, but the World....people are getting tired of the crappy MMOs on the market.

Edited by ForsakenVeteran

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Russian here with some insight on the topic. Let’s talk about localization, server locations and publishing. In order.

 

First and foremost one has to acknowledge the most major thing. Russians don't know English, in general. According to studies, only around 15% of MMO players have a good command of English. If you see a Russian in your game he most probably can't communicate well in the game and is prone to dropping the game altogether, unless he has a Russian speaking community to spoon feed him the crucial gameplay info. The chances of this happening at the release are rather slim. To tackle this, market localization is in order.

 

If we talk general client localization there are two things for consideration.

  • There will be need for at least EU servers. While ping to EU servers is usually not much worse than to “home” servers, ping to NA servers in most titles renders fast paced games unplayable (300+). No go.
  • Integrating different language communities is always a hard task. Russian players have the history of being especially bad at this. Language barrier creates an isolation, which forms feelings of discrimination in players. Combine this with strong national bond and you have a rather toxic community cell.

Another thing is that players, who don’t speak English, won't find way to KS, thus your idea of "Enough Russians backers = Russian server confirmed" is probably a wrong track if you're seriously thinking of such a move.

 

Localization of the game in Russian region is a major hit-or-miss as it depends on many aspects that I'm pretty sure are unique to Russian gaming community. Core aspects of Crowfall would appeal to many Russian players, as clan-based PvP games were always a thing in our market. But the biggest factor in publishing games in Russia is forming a community. Cross-communication with players is as important as targeted marketing campaigns. Something that’s hard to do without region office and market knowledgeable employees. Not even mentioning other important points, like culture catering, price correction, etc. By creating server just in location, you are leaving out many potential players and cut the possibility of finding the publisher in region.

 

Which brings me to my last and saddest point. Having said all that, I can’t really advise you any of our publishers. As you asked, I won’t be going deep into this one. Let’s just say most of our publishers’ business methods are a bit different from Crowfall long term vision.

 

To summarize:

  • From publishing point of view, I would recommend finding a strategic partner in the region, who would be better with market penetration and revenue collection.
  • From player point of view, it would be better off with ArtCraft’s own Russian/EU server without man in the middle. Maybe with some community helpers.
Edited by Antvg

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One thing that annoys the crap out of me everytime, is that there's no EU servers tagged "UK" or "English"

I am not a native english speaker, but im not amongst any of the ones getting a localized language server either, which means im stuck with every language out there, and it's terrible.

Not only for randoming groups/raids/PvP, but it's more often than not you run into people who simply can't breathe a word of english.

I have always been more fond on playing on US servers, suffering from a worse ping/delay on things, due to the fact I hardly have to worry about not being able to communicate with others, unfortunately most of my friends always pick EU servers, so yeah.

 

So dear ACE, please tag some servers with "UK" "English" or whatever, and frankly I don't care where in the EU they are, just allow me to play on a EU server where I can actually enjoy myself.

Only thing I ask, if you do not run the EU servers, please find someone capable enough to do it, don't want another disaster on our hands.

Edited by Staal

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Mostly really good feedback in this thread, thanks!

 

I'd like to call out that it would have been very easy for us to make casual promises, or even vague hints and none of these issues would have arisen.  That's not our style.  We will remain candid even when it costs us early backers.  As stewards of your entertainment experience, we must be trustworthy and that means honest, even when it is to our detriment.  We hope that this stance matters to our ongoing community.

 

I realize many companies in our space are not very customer oriented, and often you must throw fits and threaten them  to get any reaction.  We're not those guys.  We know these issues are emotional and extremely personal to your playing experience.  We want to dialog and learn from you; but we can't do that unless you engage with us in civil conversation.

 

I'll make some clarifications and ask some questions.

 

1)  >"Almost half of the kickstarting money came from Europe"  (I'd love to get a pointer to this stat, KS gives us no info on backers until the end of the campaign)

 

2)  We've heard the feedback we need a stretch goal that matters to the overseas audiences, and our PayPal won't go up without it

 

3)  We know most of the major MMO publishing players in the European and Asian markets and can easily contact them (some of them we'll see next week at GDC).  What's disappointing is that there are no positive reports coming from you on any of these companies.  Hopefully people can share something positive.

 

4)  How are the smaller MMO companies referenced here putting in servers in Europe doing?  Not liking the game, is not the same thing as not liking their service capabilities.

 

5)  I put a server for UO in Australia once (that game was very sensitive to latency).  UO was the first game to have a worldwide community where every person could play in every other country's shards.  The Australia server ended up not being viable for a series of reasons, but it was a valuable learning experience!  The internet has massively improved since then but there is also tremendously more traffic.

 

6)  Putting a server into Europe, and then actually servicing European customers means we are doing business in the EU and that has it's own set of costs, regulatory requirements and business complexities which are probably unclear to most customers.  We are not afraid of this, but we understand enough about what is involved to not jump in unprepared, or under-funded.   Given the feedback here so far, we are going to need to freshen up our knowledge on operating in the EU.

 

7)  All of this is moot unless there is a large enough group of customers who want our experience in Europe.  We'll have to find a way to measure that one way or the other.

 

Again, we'd love our ArtCraft service to be worldwide if we could make that happen(except China, no one gets to do China from the outside).  But that is a huge undertaking, something we'll have to grow into.

 

Thank you all for engaging in the conversation around these issues.


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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3)  We know most of the major MMO publishing players in the European and Asian markets and can easily contact them (some of them we'll see next week at GDC).  What's disappointing is that there are no positive reports coming from you on any of these companies.  Hopefully people can share something positive.

 

Believe me, we would tell you if we had positive experiences :)

If there was a publisher that stands out with exceptional service, then we'd shout that name at you.

 

There's a discussion in the german subsection as well, but atm, only negative comments to be found there.

 

We're not withholding ;)

Edited by freeze

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Mostly really good feedback in this thread, thanks!

 

...

 

5)  I put a server for UO in Australia once (that game was very sensitive to latency).  UO was the first game to have a worldwide community where every person could play in every other country's shards.  The Australia server ended up not being viable for a series of reasons, but it was a valuable learning experience!  The internet has massively improved since then but there is also tremendously more traffic.

 

...

Thank you all for engaging in the conversation around these issues.

 

How did you run that?  Where was it?  Who looked after it?

 

Curious to hear.

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what about North American/Euro guilds? Do they have a place to play? Are amero servers accessible to euros and vice versa?

 

...and whatever other multi national guild combos are out there.


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7)  All of this is moot unless there is a large enough group of customers who want our experience in Europe.  We'll have to find a way to measure that one way or the other.

Could you look at the proportion of European IP addresses visiting these forums vs. those located within the US? While it doesn't show dollar for dollar support, it at least gives you a starting point. It'd also let you narrow down where in Europe that fan base originates, so should you launch a server there, you could locate it in the most favorable location for your fan base there.

 

I'm a data warehouse guy, not a networking guy, so if it sounds like I don't know what I'm talking about, that's probably an accurate assessment. :)


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Mostly really good feedback in this thread, thanks!

 

......

 

3)  We know most of the major MMO publishing players in the European and Asian markets and can easily contact them (some of them we'll see next week at GDC).  What's disappointing is that there are no positive reports coming from you on any of these companies.  Hopefully people can share something positive.

 

......

 

6)  Putting a server into Europe, and then actually servicing European customers means we are doing business in the EU and that has it's own set of costs, regulatory requirements and business complexities which are probably unclear to most customers.  We are not afraid of this, but we understand enough about what is involved to not jump in unprepared, or under-funded.   Given the feedback here so far, we are going to need to freshen up our knowledge on operating in the EU.

 

.......

 

Again, we'd love our ArtCraft service to be worldwide if we could make that happen(except China, no one gets to do China from the outside).  But that is a huge undertaking, something we'll have to grow into.

 

Thank you all for engaging in the conversation around these issues.

 

I know, no finger pointing here, but it would be cool if you announced names of publishers you are thinking of having affair with. The biggest publishers in our mother russia are also the worst publishers. As a russian community we could help you with localisation, help with promotions and even probably rally some angel investment to open your own office here, just to stay away from our "market leaders", who make N***n look like company of the year and who would inevitable ruin the game, like the ruined every game before.

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Gordon,

 

to be frank, asking us players about a publisher is more or less a futile effort. Most of us lack the experience both with the vital parts of a publishers service (customer support for example) nor are most of us aware that there are different business models also between a developer and a publisher.

 

That said, I'm sure you are aware of that. So I'd like to point out to a former post of mine about NCSoft, which are doing a solid service besides any horror stories that circulate about them as they circulate about any other publisher. Your claim thus that there was no positive feedback is clearly an oversight (likely caused by me not overexagetating my experience for visbilities sake).

 

I'll cross fingers that you guys are finding some receptive contacts during the course of the expos this year. Please keep being as candid and as informative as you have been up until now. It is really helpful in getting new backers in.

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