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Update from the Trenches: Combat Stats


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Howdy y’all!

Blair here with a heads up about some combat stat changes coming to the Test server. Over the past few weeks we have heard y’all and can see in our internal metrics there are nefarious things going with a couple of our combat stats, that are causing abnormally high damage in the right circumstances. We really want to make sure everyone has a great PvP experience, so we don’t want to let these issues not get addressed.

  • Armor Destruction (Penetration + Armor Break) stats and debuffs are completely eliminating mitigation values of any kind of armor (plate, mail, leather) on a target, reducing all armor to effectively 0%.
  • Personal Damage Modifier (final damage reduction) stats can exceed values we thought only possible by characters using a block power. This stat ended up in multiple buffs which all stack, and the sum total can push an entire group's Personal Damage Modifier up by 40% in some cases.  
  • All the resistance stats from the alpha-era passive skill trees didn’t all translate over into talent trees. These budgeted defensive increases left all the players a bit short.

This all adds up into an unpleasant experience where armor values on armor don’t matter, groups must have huge amounts of PDM buffs in order to compensate, and characters who don’t have access to these buffs have a really rough time. While there are a few other smaller contributors, these are the issues we want to tackle first.

So in order to put things in a better spot we are going to:

  • Cap penetration values at 20%
  • Reduce Armor Breaks to a 10% debuff, and prevent different kinds of Armor Breaks from stacking.

This should prevent the really high values of Armor Destruction.

Also:

  • Reduce talent tree Personal Damage Modifier to 3% max available in the tree.
  • Reduce power buffs which grant  Personal Damage Modifier to 5% max, and all are in the same stack group, so you can only have 1.

This should stop groups from obtaining really high levels of PDM.

And:

  • Add 5%/10%/20% armor resistance in the talent promotion box based on the final armor type that promotion is granted.

This should make up for the missing  from the mitigations, and we will tune as needed.

Again, just giving everyone a heads up on what we are thinking with these, and hope to get feedback from you on the Test server!

When we launch this in Live, every character on your account affected will get a Mystical Tome of Unlearning so respecing is an option.
 

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Change looks great. Might wanna bump the flat armor a bit though 30% subtractive shread is still a lot. Leather classes may still not actually have armor values. Even plate will be like 20-30%. A bit low for plate.

Edited by Balathan
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Still no fix for a chaos orb. Nerfed it by 60% instead of 30% and you guys are refusing to acknowledge it. If you dont want to change it just say something instead of hiding behind a wall.

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  • Reduce Armor Breaks to a 10% debuff, and prevent different kinds of Armor Breaks from stacking.

    Does this mean a Physical armor break will overwrite an elemental break? e.g. would a knight armor break overwrite a confessor fire break? How is this staking working.
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I would like to recommend swapping alot of the armor pen ability to dmg increase for that type instead so say gapfinder 15% piercing penetration buff goes to 15% piercing dmg bonus instead.
This should intern make Armor mitigate the dmg better

So lets take a 1k dmg hit at 20% penetration/dmg buff for simplicity
Penetration
0% Armor = 1000dmg
10% armor = 1000
20% armor - 1000
30% Armor = 900
40% Armor = 800

Now if it was 20% dmg bonus it would look more like this
0% armor = 1200
10% armor = 1080
20% armor = 960
30% armor = 840
40% armor = 720

So overall it would tone down damage against anyone with Armor and make plate feel more useful, penetration should be a realy rare stat (Same with PDM). like one of my archer build alone can get 43% armor negating or so plate amour is non exsistant and thats solo lol.
Crafting recipes should be swapped from Penetration to type dmg bonus instead imo aswell

On topic of PDM i think it fine on talent trees since thats class specific and only affects one person the biggest issue with PDM right now is protection stake mainly its gives like 30%-35% PDM to 8 people with fort stakes or something stupid like that which not only promotes clump wars (Which is the worst thing in the game in my option currently, RIP old Gaea statues making seiges fun till zergs complained :() You should swap protection stakes to armour bonuses instead of PDM and i think that would solve alot of the PDM issues


 

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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13 minutes ago, BobbyWoods said:

Still no fix for a chaos orb. Nerfed it by 60% instead of 30% and you guys are refusing to acknowledge it. If you dont want to change it just say something instead of hiding behind a wall.

Chaos orbs are only an issue imo with the current meta of standing ontop of eachother and this being the only AOE in game that hits all targets, chaos orb itself isnt the problem, the problem is all other AOE having an aoe cap which makes the ball/clump meta so strong and people using chaos orbs to try and counter the stacking up since your promoted to stand ontop of each other so much with heals being circles, protection stakes being circles and all other AOE being capped number wise.

Chaos orb as a skill isnt very good with the exception of when everyone standing ontop of eachother since no other skill can counter blob warfare which is currently the only thing happening in large scale fights which is boring :( (RIP old gaea statue making people spread those where the best seiges ive been appart of)

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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If you are reducing the ability to gain personal damage modifier, will you also lower the ability to strip personal damage modifier from your enemies? Hellraiser + troub alone can take 35% PDM which would unbalance tf out of changes like the ones proposed.

Will you also take a look at holy damage classes when these changes are implemented? The best way to counter radical spam is PDM, but if we swap to low PDM and high armor radicals will probably be overpowered compared to other classes. 

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3 minutes ago, BehindYou said:

What happens to humans do they get 8%?

humans get 3% i believe and then u often get 5% more in talent trees which bring you to 8% which i think is fine tbh

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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2 minutes ago, GiveVindisGreatAxes said:

If you are reducing the ability to gain personal damage modifier, will you also lower the ability to strip personal damage modifier from your enemies? Hellraiser + troub alone can take 35% PDM which would unbalance tf out of changes like the ones proposed.

Will you also take a look at holy damage classes when these changes are implemented? The best way to counter radical spam is PDM, but if we swap to low PDM and high armor radicals will probably be overpowered compared to other classes. 

Could be worth giving the option to put holy resistance on armor recipes (metal scales/metal plates/leather squares) like bleed so it can be mitigated slightly if u specialise in it as an option, it wont be as resistible as say physical and elemental but its there as an option if holy is causing issues to you build

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Sooooo... I have some questions/concerns:

What's going to happen to the PDM focused majors/minors/domains? I'm a little concerned that several majors/minors and some domains seem to become very bad with the changes to PDM values. Music is hit especially hard since it had Yaga's Requiem (-20% PDM) and Guardian Rhythms/Ode to Kane(+10% PDM). So, song twisting is even worse now. Stalwart looks like it becomes pretty much unusable. Hellraiser is now even more relegated to obscurity. LoF and Prot Stake seem like they will become pretty bad. What are the plans for these? Capping their effectiveness at 5% seems like it will nerf these into oblivion. I mean PDM, outside of ultimates maybe, does seem a little superfluous given that armor and resistances already exist, so will these just change to be focused on armor/resistance buffing/debuffing?

Will this impact PDM bonuses on ultimates? Some promotions can abuse the frequency and PDM boost of ultimates (and things like redirected strikes) to achieve very large total effective health pools, maybe most simply described as something like: HP / (1 - total mitigation % / 100%). Will the PDM changes include tweaking ultimates at all? If the PDM debuffs get nerfed, there are even less tools to counter these practices.

Is any consideration being given to the effect of stacking damage bonuses on the whole system? I'm concerned the effect this will all have is a reduction in typical TTK in any given fight, which feels very low currently without access to PDM boosts. Boosting armor and reducing mitigation debuffs will help some, sure, but one of the major offenders creating large spikes in damage seems to be the stacking of damage bonuses. Any thoughts on tweaking this?

Edited by Pystkeebler
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3 minutes ago, Pystkeebler said:

Sooooo... I have some questions/concerns:

What's going to happen to the PDM focused majors/minors/domains? I'm a little concerned that several minors and some domains seem to become very bad with the changes to PDM values. Music is hit especially hard since it had Yaga's Requiem (-20% PDM) and Guardian Rhythms/Ode to Kane(+10% PDM). So, song twisting is even worse now. Stalwart looks like it becomes pretty much unusable. Hellraiser is now even more relegated to obscurity. LoF and Prot Stake seem like they will become pretty bad. What are the plans for these? Capping their effectiveness at 5% seems like it will nerf these into oblivion. I mean PDM, outside of ultimates maybe, does seem a little superfluous given that armor and resistances already exist, so will these just change to be focused on armor/resistance buffing/debuffing?

Will this impact PDM bonuses on ultimates? Some promotions can abuse the frequency and PDM boost of ultimates to achieve very large total effective health pools, maybe most simply described as something like: HP / (100% - total mitigation %). Will the PDM changes include alter ultimates at all?

Is any consideration being given to the effect of stacking damage bonuses on the whole system? I'm concerned the effect this will all have is kind of reduction in typical TTK in any given fight, which feels very low currently without access to PDM boosts. Boosting armor and reducing mitigation debuffs will help some, sure, but one of the major offenders creating large spikes in damage seems to be the stacking of damage bonuses. Any thoughts on tweaking this?

If it was me i would keep Requiem and Guardian Rhythms as is (maybe reduce requiem slightly to 15%), Most other one sshould be shifted to grant armor/resistances instead of PDM protection stake for example should be moved from PDM to say Armor bonus instead getting 30% PDM or what not for a group is way way to much

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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So when is Secutor getting reworked. It has now lost it's one good promotion node, Full strength has always been a mediocre node, and now Redirected strikes is just a dead node entirely now. This makes both the promotion nodes for secutor completely garbage, and will now push it even further behind in the tank specs. Hell an assassin can apply barriers better than Secutor which is seemingly themed around mitigation.

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