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Reward Requirements, Scaling, and Testing


ACE-Tiggs
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Summary

The proposal in this document is to harden individual requirements, scale rewards based on campaign duration, move most rewards to vendors using alternate currencies and improve our ability to test our systems. 

Individual Requirements Rules

One of the biggest challenges with our reward system is the inability to set individual requirements. We give out ALL rewards based on whether your guild or faction does well enough, but then we never check individual contributions. This leads to a slew of issues where players use the system to gain additional rewards on our different campaign types. 

  • For the dregs, we had to pull individual rewards out of our system to prevent guilds from bloating how many rewards they were issued by subscribing proxy accounts before the campaign ended
  • For the shadow, we have had players sitting as many campaigns as possible doing nothing to contribute to the faction and just collect as many rewards as possible with no effort given whatsoever. 
  • Potential pitfall, we don’t want to make it so stringent and complex that it’s hard to understand or a mystery to players. This is just to ensure players that are actually playing in the campaigns are rewards. 

Solution(s)

  • All rewards need to be checked for individual contributions, regardless of campaign type. The reward system needs to validate that an individual has participated through broad checks in activities.
    • Reward changes
      • We need to add data to either a google sheet file or a JSON file that will allow us to check broad strokes of activity. We want to know, simply, if an account is playing our game or not. Again, the goal here is to eliminate the proxy guilds and players, but keep it simple enough for the real players to continue enjoying the game unnoticed.

        The checks are broken down into two categories. The first is the “Time” category and the second is the “Gameplay” category.
        • Time Category
          • The following two requirements are needed to have any rewards granted to an individual account. If both are true, they qualify. These requirements are on an account level. 
            • Total subscribed time
              • This field will let us know how long the account has been subscribed to this particular campaign in hours. Design needs to be able to assign a threshold that players must reach to qualify.
            • Total logged in time
            • This field will let us know how long the player has been logged into the campaign and actually active playing. This time is specific to their subscribed campaign. Design needs to be able to assign a threshold that players must reach to qualify.
        • Gameplay Category
          • We want players to get points for doing a broad set of activities throughout the entire campaign.  We track metrics against player activities and will use these to determine if the player has participated within the campaign sufficiently to be an active participant.
      • When a player unsubscribes all of their characters from a campaign, they will forfeit their rewards to that campaign. They will also lose the progress made in the “time” and “gameplay” categories listed above. The following expectations are listed below. 
        • Guild rewards - If an officer unsubscribes all characters from the campaign, the officer shouldn't be able to claim the rewards. A guild leader has the right to claim the reward regardless of whether or not they participated in the campaign to avoid situations where no one can claim the reward.
        • Participant rewards - If any player unsubscribes all characters from the campaign, they won't be able to claim the rewards.
      • Clarification Question: Let's say I have 3 characters I'm playing in a campaign and have a combined total of 50 hours played in that campaign.  The first 2 characters together represent 49.5 hours of played time and the last character I just subscribed at the very end to "hold my place" in the campaign. Then I unsubscribe the first 2 characters. Do I lose the credit for the 49.5 hours I played on those characters (my "mains") and only keep the 0.5h I played on the "placeholder" character or do I keep all 50 hours?
      • Clarification Answer: Your character would keep all 50 hours played. You only lose the time and gameplay categories if you unsubscribe ALL of your characters from that specific campaign. The player still played the game an appropriate amount to qualify for rewards. We are looking to prevent players from quickly gaming the system without being too punitive to our normal players. 

Scaling Rewards

As it stands, our reward systems do not scale at all in similar ways our campaigns do. This limits our flexibility on the live service. Additionally, many of our rewards will be difficult to scale and distribute in a way that would be easily manageable and balanced. 

Before we get into the solutions, let me give a simple example of how this would work. 

Setup: We are going to use Dust as an example of a scaling reward. This reward will be given out in a dregs campaign that could vary in length. 

In data, we establish a min and max length, in days, that a campaign can be. In the image below, we define the min and max range to be 14 days minimum and 42 days maximum. 

image5.png

This data is then used to determine how much dust we give out. For the dust in this example, we give a min and max value of 100 and 400. See the image below. 

image2.png

If we use a 14-day campaign, then players would see 100 dust in the reward package. If we use a 42-day campaign then the dust would be 400. If we used a 31-day campaign then the dust would be 332.

Solution(s)

  1. To help make rewards scale better with campaigns we will need to rely on giving out currencies (Dust, Gold, etc) as part of the reward packages. These scale better as we give out a lot of them.
  2. We will need to create 4 new currencies. Glory, Wealth, Power, and Conquest Tokens. These tokens, similar to dust or gold, will act as a currency for claiming rewards at vendors located at the temples. These new currencies and what rewards we place on giving out are described under the “What Rewards To Give Out” later in this document. 
    • These vendors will be located in Gods Reach temple by the tree of life and on the starter parcels in their personal EKs. In the EK, we can either put the vendors around the brazier or we can put a third building on that parcel to house them.

      image3.png

      image4.png

    • This also allows us to create rewards that may take multiple campaigns to get.
    • These tokens are no drop and no trade rewards.
    • This work will need to be done in tandem with or after the alternate currency work has been completed. 
  3. We will need to restructure the strategy game datasheet to accommodate a min and max value for every single item given out of the reward packages. These values will be associated with the length of the campaign to generate the best reward quantity possible. This value will be determined by both the strategy game datasheet as well as the new curves table described in 4) section. The larger the values, the easier it is to scale the rewards.
    •  If the min value is specified, but the max value isn’t, then the reward is not a scaling reward. This allows designers to still make non-scaling rewards. 
  4. Add a new tab to establish a curves table. This will allow us to define minimum and maximum campaign lengths and apply those specifically to the rewards. This is what will control the min and max value on the set on the rewards page. Tech will need to scale the rewards between the two values. 
    • A reward that does not evenly divide or multiply between the scales will round up. 
  5. We need to do more messaging on rewards to be able to explain the high-level differences between reward packages. The reward screen should have a design-driven text field description to put info about the reward package.
    • While we are at it, we should also make the text editable directly above the rewards. This way we can cater the text between GvG and FvF campaigns. 

      This area would need to be reworked by UI. This section will include three bits of information.
  • A general statement
  • Reward description (Campaign specific)
  • Participation description section
  • A string that says, “[Username] [Does or Doesn’t] currently qualify for individual rewards.” This will let the player know when they do or do not qualify for rewards. 

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What Rewards To Give Out

With all of these changes, we need to define what rewards to give out. This section will define the specific vendors, current items, and optional new items that will be used for the reward system in the future. 

Vendors - Below is a list of vendors that need to be created and placed in the temple/ek as described under scaling rewards. 

  • Conquest Vendor - Conquest vendors accept conquest tokens.
    • This new token currency would need to be created by design and art. They’re no trade and no drop.
    • Visually, we’d need to work with the Art Team to create new icons above the vendor’s head as well as get a character set up to sell them. 
  • Glory Vendor - Glory vendors accept Glory tokens.
    • This new token currency would need to be created by design and art. They’re no trade and no drop.
    • Visually, we’d need to work with the Art Team to create new icons above the vendor's head as well as get a character set up to sell them.
  • Wealth Vendor - Wealth vendors accept Wealth tokens. 
    • This new token currency would need to be created by design and art. They’re no trade and no drop.
    • Visually, we’d need to work with the Art Team to create new icons above the vendor's head as well as get a character set up to sell them.
  • Power Vendor - Power vendors accept Power tokens. 
    • This new token currency would need to be created by design and art. They’re no trade and no drop.
    • Visually, we’d need to work with the Art Team to create new icons above the vendor's head as well as get a character set up to sell them.

Current Items - Below is a list of items that already exist, that will be slotted into the different vendors. Each item will be balanced to the amount of conquest, glory, wealth, or power tokens we generate for each campaign. 

Conquest Vendors: Currently everything that’s in the rewards packages now will be included. These items currently granted are….

  • Dust
  • Gold
  • Major Mystery Disciplines
  • Minor Mystery Disciplines
  • Placeable Castle Walls
  • Placeable Fort Walls
  • Placeable Vendors
  • Placeable Vendor Stalls
  • Placeable God Statues
  • Mystery Mounts
  • Weapon Shard Additives
  • Placeable Hunger
  • Player Badges

Glory Vendors: Currently everything that’s in the rewards packages now will be included. The items currently granted are….

  • Dust
  • Major Mystery Disciplines
  • Vessel Mystery Additives
  • Harvesting Additives
  • Placeable Walls
  • Placeable Gryphon Nest

Wealth Vendors: Currently everything that’s in the rewards packages now will be included. The items currently granted are….

  • Topaz Gems
  • Sapphire Gems
  • Emerald Gems
  • Ruby Gems
  • Diamond Gems
  • Exploration Mystery Disciplines
  • Vessel Mystery Additives
  • Weapon Enchantments
  • Placeable Ores
  • Placeable Lamp Posts

Power Vendors: Currently everything that’s in the rewards packages now will be included. The items currently granted are….

  • Placeable Ballista
  • Placeable Catapults
  • Placeable Trebuchets
  • Siege Weapon Additives
  • Mystery Ore Resources
  • Major Mystery Disciplines
  • Vessel Mystery Additives
  • XP Sacrifice Item
  • Placeable Barbarian Tent
  • Placeable Carts


(Optional) New Items - Below is a list of new items that should be added or created to reward vendors. They will be slotted into one of the four vendors.

  1. 1st, 2nd, 3rd place as well as top 20%, top 40%, top 60%, top 80%, and top 100% will receive conquest statues that players can place in their EKs. These will NOT go on the vendor. 
    • The statues would be of a Crow, arms spread open.
    • There would be a mantel at the base that reads what place they got.
    • Each statue should have a different material with 1st place being the most impressive
    • 1st place statue is the biggest and most impressive
    • Top 100% is a smaller and broken statue
  2. We should invest some tech time into being able to create consumable items that give places emotes. We can then put those item emotes on reward vendors or give them out as exclusive rewards.
    • Winners Emote: Emote that we can give out to the winners of the conquest category
    • Glory Emote: Emote that we can give out to the winners of the glory category
    • Wealth Emote: Emote that we can give out to the winners of the wealth category
    • Power Emote: Emote that we can give out to the winners of the power category
    • Crow Emote: Emote where a player flaps their arms like their wings
  3. We had created new parcels for players to win and put into their EKs. They need to be reviewed and added back into the reward packages. 
    • Large fighting arena parcel
    • Marketplace parcel
    • Mountain parcel
  4. We should create new parcels to further encourage players to win rewards so they can enjoy them in their EKs
    • Create a medium fighting arena. This is similar to the large one, just medium.
    • Create a small fighting arena. This is similar to the large one, just smaller.
    • Canyon modular parcels. Duplicate the campaign canyon parcels we currently use and put them into deeds that we can give to players.
    • Forest modular parcels. Duplicate the campaign forest parcels we currently use and put them into deeds that we can give to players.
    • Mountain modular parcels. Create a new set of modular mountain parcels for players to add height to their EKs. These would be 2x2 parcels.
      • Endcap parcel
      • Straight parcel
      • T parcel
      • + parcel
      • L parcel
    • Riverlands modular parcels. Create a new (Or reuse an existing set if we have it) set of modular river parcels for players to add water to their EKs. These would be 2x2 or 1x1 parcels.
      • Endcap parcel
      • Straight parcel
      • T parcel
      • + parcel
      • L parcel
  5. We should create deeds that spawn NPC inside of the EKs. These NPC would need to be set up by design to provide no loot and no skinning. We can place a dynamic spawner marker inside of a placeable deed to allow players to place and or pick up the spawning node. 
    • Gryphon deed
    • Bear deed
    • Pig deed
    • Hellcat deed
    • Wolf deed
    • Spider deed
    • Auroch deed
  6. Create EK placeable obelisks in memory of famous crows through the ages. Other than Hero, we have one other notable hero named Enbarus who led the Enbarri. These statues, when interacted with, will give fun buffs or debuffs to players as they brawl in their EKs. 
    • These buffs should ONLY be usable inside of the EK and shouldn’t persist between logging in and out. 
    • For the purposes of this design, the obelisks will detail the powers used, but we’d need help from Jack forming the lore around each one.
    • An obelisk that gives players a speed boost that greatly increases in and out of combat movement speed for 10 minutes
    • An obelisk that grants unlimited dodges for 10 minutes 
    • An obelisk that sets your intellect to cap for 10 minutes
    • An obelisk that sets your strength to cap for 10 minutes
    • An obelisk that sets your dexterity to cap for 10 minutes
    • An obelisk that sets your spirit to cap for 10 minutes
    • An obelisk that sets your constitution to cap for 10 minutes
  7. Create some reward sigils that the players can wear on their chests. These sigils will have the same stats as our other sigils but are used as more of a bragging rights item. 
    • 1st place conquest sigil
    • 2nd place conquest sigil
    • 3rd place conquest sigil
    • Top 20% glory sigil
    • Top 20% wealth sigil
    • Top 20% power sigil

Other Issues To Address

  1. As it stands, the reward packages are not very well organized for the players. Currently, they sort by alphabetical order. This puts the coolest package, the legendary one, at the bottom of the list. Design would like the ordering of reward packages to follow the logic below. 
    • Rewards that I qualify for
      • The rarity of the reward
        • Alphabetical ordering of the rewards
    • Rewards that I don’t qualify for
      • The rarity of the reward
        • Alphabetical ordering of the rewards
  2. Currently, players do all of the calculations by hand throughout the campaigns to figure out what they might get. A great player improvement would be to show the player their “Potential Rewards” at the end of each season. This will let them see what they could get if they continue doing what they’re doing.
    • The potential rewards are only updated at the end of spring, summer, and fall. 
    • We need to update the UI to support this visual change. The current text says, “Earned” and “Unearned”. A new text that will be displayed at the end of each season will be “Qualifying”  
    • Inside the tooltip, there’s a section at the bottom that will say “Granted” or “Not Granted”. We will need another spot here to say “Qualifying”

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  3. Currently, EVERY SINGLE REWARD uses a chest icon that looks exactly the same. This makes the rewards look stale and quite frankly a bit lame. After speaking with the UI folks, we should expose that chest in our datasheet and create a variety of icons for the different reward structures. 
  • Dregs:
    • Conquest
      • 1st place: Legendary, a cool ass throne surrounded by many chests overflowing with conquest tokens
      • 2nd place: Epic, a chest overflowing with conquest tokens
      • 3rd place: Epic, a chest filled with conquest tokens
      • Top 20%: Rare, a leather bag overflowing with conquest tokens
      • Top 40%: Rare, a leather bag filled with conquest tokens
      • Top 60%: Uncommon, a larger pile of conquest tokens
      • Top 80%: Uncommon, a small pile of conquest tokens
      • Top 100%: Common, a single conquest token
    • Glory
      • Top 20%: Epic, a chest overflowing with glory tokens
      • Top 40%: Rare, a leather bag filled with glory tokens
      • Top 60%: Uncommon, a small pile of glory tokens
    • Wealth
      • Top 20%: Epic, a chest overflowing with Wealth tokens
      • Top 40%: Rare, a leather bag filled with Wealth tokens
      • Top 60%: Uncommon, a small pile of Wealth tokens
    • Power
      • Top 20%: Epic, a chest overflowing with Power tokens
      • Top 40%: Rare, a leather bag filled with Power tokens
      • Top 60%: Uncommon, a small pile of Power tokens
  • Shadow:
    • Conquest
      • 1st Place: Epic, a chest overflowing with conquest tokens and a spirit crow flying above the chest
      • 2nd Place: Rare, a chest filled with conquest tokens
      • 3rd Place: Uncommon, chest filled with conquest tokens
    • Glory
      • 1st Place: Epic chest overflowing with Glory tokens
      • 2nd Place: Rare chest filled with Glory tokens
      • 3rd Place: Uncommon chest filled with Glory tokens
    • Wealth
      • 1st Place: Epic chest overflowing with Wealth tokens
      • 2nd Place: Rare chest filled with Wealth tokens
      • 3rd Place: Uncommon chest filled with Wealth tokens
    • Power
    • 1st Place: Epic chest overflowing with Power tokens
    • 2nd Place: Rare chest filled with Power tokens
    • 3rd Place: Uncommon chest filled with Power tokens

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Very interesting stuff, and there's a lot of places this new data/token system can take you from here.

You could, for example, use all this new data to base caps on ACTIVE SOLDIERS instead of website members when planning Campaign Caps for Guild/Faction/Alliance.

Should also consider perhaps a new reward type based on actual PvP performance.  While it can be gamed, there current Conquest structure and most of the DF quests incentivizes not fighting (as the most efficient path to reward).

One quibble, we cannot import or reasonably use siege outside campaigns, so why bother putting it on a vendor/as a reward?

Edited by Van_Zant
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I like the idea of putting more thought into the rewards.

I do feel like the time logged in is exploitable if the check is whether they are logged into the campaign or not. I could see people on stealth classes sitting in random out of the way spots afk clocking time or just sitting in temples afk in safety.

For factions you need some sort of sliding reward though for time spent in current faction unless the only faction rewards are personal. Otherwise, you will still have people changing onto the winning side at the end to collect the best rewards rather than playing out the campaign.

 

REQT

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Good afternoon,

I feel an alternate way to receive EK items (Walls, Ore, NPC's, ETC) is huge! I love collecting cosmetics and persistent rewards not tied to character power as it is a direct reflection of my time without impacting other players. I am super excited about most of these and the rest are just icing on the cake :) . Keep up the transparency and hard work! A kingdom is build one brick at a time, keep laying that foundation!

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FvF rewards should be comparable to top 40% for first, top 60% for second, top 80% for third individualized of course. FvF rewards should scale to the time that the person has been invested in the faction/have a quota/score requirement with diminishing returns.  Crafting points should be heavily revised as well.  Certain craftings just dont impact a server and shouldnt be rewarded with points

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So does this mean dregs will have individual rewards or will it still be on the officers to hand everything out?

Overall this sounds pretty great. I like the token idea. I like new rewards. It's nice to see new EK stuff. The campaign trophy placement statue reminds me of the Path of Exile challenge totems which are fun to display.

Guild Leader of Seeds of War

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29 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

For the dregs, we had to pull individual rewards out of our system to prevent guilds from bloating how many rewards they were issued by subscribing proxy accounts before the campaign ended

With an alliance/guild cap per campaign, and/or alliance scoring, you would no longer have this issue.

With a cap, you'd know exactly how many people were in each guild and how many rewards they'd get. This will be a non issue soon. Just make the rewards match whatever the cap is. Then if your guild is under the cap and you win. Guess what? EXTRA REWARDS. 

29 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

For the shadow, we have had players sitting as many campaigns as possible doing nothing to contribute to the faction and just collect as many rewards as possible with no effort given whatsoever. 

Faction rewards need to be individual contribution basis. Period. 

29 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

Time Category

  • The following two requirements are needed to have any rewards granted to an individual account. If both are true, they qualify. These requirements are on an account level. 
    • Total subscribed time
      • This field will let us know how long the account has been subscribed to this particular campaign in hours. Design needs to be able to assign a threshold that players must reach to qualify.
    • Total logged in time
    • This field will let us know how long the player has been logged into the campaign and actually active playing. This time is specific to their subscribed campaign. Design needs to be able to assign a threshold that players must reach to qualify.

 

This doesn't seem particularly useful. Can be defeated with an anti afk mechanism. Many people just login on test, go AFK for 6 hours, and get the tankards, for example. Waste of your time.

29 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

Gameplay Category

  • We want players to get points for doing a broad set of activities throughout the entire campaign.  We track metrics against player activities and will use these to determine if the player has participated within the campaign sufficiently to be an active participant.

 

This is what rewards should be based on. Doing stuff in the game. 

29 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

We will need to create 4 new currencies. Glory, Wealth, Power, and Conquest Tokens. These tokens, similar to dust or gold, will act as a currency for claiming rewards at vendors located at the temples. These new currencies and what rewards we place on giving out are described under the “What Rewards To Give Out” later in this document. 

This is friggin excellent and EXACTLY what we need. 

 

29 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

These tokens are no drop and no trade rewards.

Why?

29 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

Wealth Vendors: Currently everything that’s in the rewards packages now will be included. The items currently granted are….

  • Topaz Gems
  • Sapphire Gems
  • Emerald Gems
  • Ruby Gems
  • Diamond Gems
  • Exploration Mystery Disciplines
  • Vessel Mystery Additives
  • Weapon Enchantments
  • Placeable Ores
  • Placeable Lamp Posts

Add armor enchants too. 

29 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

Create some reward sigils that the players can wear on their chests. These sigils will have the same stats as our other sigils but are used as more of a bragging rights item. 

  • 1st place conquest sigil
  • 2nd place conquest sigil
  • 3rd place conquest sigil
  • Top 20% glory sigil
  • Top 20% wealth sigil
  • Top 20% power sigil

 

This is an area where you could do a lot more.

Lets get a very WIDE variety of stats for these sigils. It can still be in the 2% range, so a small boost, but ESPECIALLY since the stats don't stack, you need to add a LOT more variety. The trial of the gods sigils were a good start. Need to keep expanding on this. 

Then just sell the sigils for tokens. Then individuals will want to save up tokens to purchase these sigils. 

29 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

Dregs:

  • Conquest
    • 1st place: Legendary, a cool ass throne surrounded by many chests overflowing with conquest tokens
    • 2nd place: Epic, a chest overflowing with conquest tokens
    • 3rd place: Epic, a chest filled with conquest tokens
    • Top 20%: Rare, a leather bag overflowing with conquest tokens
    • Top 40%: Rare, a leather bag filled with conquest tokens
    • Top 60%: Uncommon, a larger pile of conquest tokens
    • Top 80%: Uncommon, a small pile of conquest tokens
    • Top 100%: Common, a single conquest token

 

I think you could use more granularity here. There are SO MANY guilds in these campaigns that getting top 20% is pretty friggin easy. How about 1st - 3rd place, then top 10%, Top 20%, Top 40%, Top 60%, Top 80% Top 100%? 

You should also make the amount of points you need to qualify a sliding scale based on campaign duration. Right now I think it's 1,000 conquest points to qualify? Something like that? That maybe too high in a 14 day campaign and too low in a 42 day campaign. This needs to scale also.

This is overall a great step in the right direction. I do think there needs to be a LOT more individual objectives and rewards. We need individual seasonal cards which grant a certain number of tokens. These would turn into ~weekly quests for individuals to complete. 

Edited by blazzen

Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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Definitely an improvement.  Keep them coming.

Two things: (1) we need individual rewards, at least for FvF worlds, why does the guy sitting afk and invis get the same rewards as someone out fighting and getting points; (2) make swapping factions mid campaign erase ALL individual progress in that campaign.  If mid-campaign faction swapping is going to exist, it needs to come at a heavy penalty (lore wise, idk, betraying your current god means you get smited and your deeds are erased from history).

Individual rewards could be like top 3 kills, top 3 kill participation (kills+assists), top 3 captures, etc.  I mostly play this game to pvp, but I'm sure there could be some interesting gathering/crafting ones.  Most purple resources gathered, most durability lost on crafted gear (e.g. if I craft 10 weapons and they all break during the campaign because my allies are using them in battle, I get rewarded over a person who makes 40 weapons but exports them for personal gain), most raid bosses killed, most motherloads mined, IDK, something like that.

Also, if individual rewards are to be based on the current scoreboard, points for crafting needs to be drastically reduced.  The current points would make sense if the crafter was completing divine favor cards (because its benefiting the faction) but currently crafters can just churn out a ton of stuff, sell it to a vendor or export it or w/e (i.e. not help the faction in any way), and be on the top of the leaderboard.

Edited by Curbsnugglin
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33 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:
        • Gameplay Category
          • We want players to get points for doing a broad set of activities throughout the entire campaign.  We track metrics against player activities and will use these to determine if the player has participated within the campaign sufficiently to be an active participant.

If we could get updated scoreboards to match this too, that would be great. The points make zero sense right now. Like, I don't even know how to explain the points here:

SGj2OHD.png

 

Also, a suggestion for one thing to use for Gameplay metrics would be divine favor participation (as one possible metric, not the ONLY metric). People participating in this are actively contributing.

Guild Leader of Seeds of War

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35 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

Gameplay Category

  • We want players to get points for doing a broad set of activities throughout the entire campaign.  We track metrics against player activities and will use these to determine if the player has participated within the campaign sufficiently to be an active participant.

 

Reading through this post I'd say most of these things would make the game better, this one line however is the thing I think would make the most difference. The way to earn all the points, especially conquest, are not nearly granular enough as it stands now.

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An obelisk that grants high jump and no fall damage. This will give a 0 gravity effect and make duels super fun.

 

"Create EK placeable obelisks in memory of famous crows through the ages. Other than Hero, we have one other notable hero named Enbarus who led the Enbarri. These statues, when interacted with, will give fun buffs or debuffs to players as they brawl in their EKs. 

These buffs should ONLY be usable inside of the EK and shouldn’t persist between logging in and out. 

For the purposes of this design, the obelisks will detail the powers used, but we’d need help from Jack forming the lore around each one.

An obelisk that gives players a speed boost that greatly increases in and out of combat movement speed for 10 minutes

An obelisk that grants unlimited dodges for 10 minutes 

An obelisk that sets your intellect to cap for 10 minutes

An obelisk that sets your strength to cap for 10 minutes

An obelisk that sets your dexterity to cap for 10 minutes

An obelisk that sets your spirit to cap for 10 minutes

An obelisk that sets your constitution to cap for 10 minutes"

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47 minutes ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

 

    • This also allows us to create rewards that may take multiple campaigns to get.
    • These tokens are no drop and no trade rewards.
    • This work will need to be done in tandem with or after the alternate currency work has been completed. 

I see a problem with this... These currently are claimed by officers, stashed and traded between the officers. If you're creating this new currency, could it be like the "guild crowns" are now? Where officers could claim and they go into a vault vs an in game currency that cannot be dropped/traded? What happens if an officer misclicks? Well now you have to wait longer for that reward you wanted on the vendor because a simple misclick, unless support is going to move those tokens?

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I like it, but I would keep it more simple and deliver changes iteratively:

  • Only add 1 currency instead of the 4 mentioned. The vendors in GR carry all of the potential items you can purchase with the campaign reward currency. Simple.
  • Have the rewards for Dregs given out to only the top X guilds, no more percentages (should really be alliances, but that's another convo). This helps solve people just jumping into dregs briefly to reach rewards. If the game grows and campaigns get larger, then consider bringing back the percentile reward structure.
  • Have the total reward for each place a certain amount of currency that will be divided among all members of that guild who participated in that Dregs. This will influence guilds to try and reach higher places with less amount of players (anti-zerg).
  • Don't make the currency No Trade. Allow people to pool the currency together to buy nicer things for the guild. Allow individuals to trade the currency for crafted gear or other stuff. 
  • Change campaign rewards to only be this currency. You should have a scaling reward system based on campaign type/length, but that isn't needed now. With the low amount of campaigns and current player pop, just manually set the rewards before the campaign starts.

 

Example of how this could play out:

Rewards

1st place: 1,000,000 currency

2nd: 750,000

3rd: 500,000

4th: 400,000

5th: 300,000

6th: 250,000

7th: 200,000

8th: 150,000

9th: 100,000

10th: 50,000

Dregs Campaign Results

1st place: Guild A with 200 players (each players gets 5,000 currency; 1,000,000 / 200)

2nd place: Guild B w/ 100 players (each player gets 7,500)

3rd place: C w/ 50 (10,000)

4th: D w/ 150 (2,667)

5th: E w/ 30 (10,000)

etc.

This would provide a nice balance of encouraging finishing higher with a appropriately sized guild. Also, every player would have a stake in how the guild is doing as a bump up in place would mean extras for them. Finally, the guild could pool back together currency to buy nicer items for the EK or whatever from the vendors.

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  • The "Time logged in to the campaign" requirement is just begging for your players to run macros to avoid AFK detection and keep the timer ticking, exactly as they used to do in EKs. You will either have an extremely exploitable metric once players figure it out, a black box algorithm that disenfranchises legitimate play, a nightmare situation policing abuses of that metric, or all three. This is a bad idea. You shouldn't do it.
  • "Time logged in to campaign" is not a good metric for gauging player activity. Neither is account age. Player activity is the only meaningful metric for gauging player activity. If you are assigning rewards based on activity, you don't need to attach a clock to them. Audit player actions exclusively, and reward based on those actions in a transparent manner. Players running alt accounts are irrelevant if you do this. Reward based solely on doing stuff, and players will have to actually do stuff on those accounts, which prevents them from doing more stuff on their main account. Don't worry about players having alt guilds or whatever as long as they have to work twice as hard to get twice as many rewards.
  • Array FvF rewards as primarily guild/personal with a bonus for faction placement rather than solely based on faction placement.. Faction-wide rewards in a game mode where there are three open join factions is simply a system that begs abuse because personal effort has zero correlation with faction placement when the server only has 3 factions that contain its entire population. 20 people actually doing stuff can be the make or break difference between a faction winning or losing. Everyone knows this. Everyone that knows they're on a faction with one or two highly motivated guilds is highly motivated to slack off and let those guilds do everything.
  • Use guild rewards in shadows, and use guild identity in shadows. Factions should not replace guilds as the primary determinate of identity. They should replace the alliance as the primary method of superstructural organization as this is how players actually operate within them. A faction should be as functionally close to a dregs alliance with no leader as possible, and shadows should operate as functionally close to "dregs if there were only three alliances and nobody gets to pick their faction or change it" as possible, only with the addition of individual rewards for unguilded players.
  • Have separate reward tracks for guilded and unguilded players in Shadows. Again, you want people to join guilds in shadows and have guild objectives to compete for. It is your guild incubator. If guilds as a unit have nothing to earn, you have a terrible incubator. You want unguilded solo players to act like unguilded solo players. You don't want guilded players to act like unguilded solo players. Your game is built around encouraging strong and long lasting player bonds that may eventually take them out of shadows and in to dregs. This "shadows to dregs pipeline" is crucical both to preventing shadows from being overrun by shadows megaguilds, and preventing dregs from becoming a stagnant mode filled with the same alliances in every campaign.
  • Individual Shadows guilds (or the "faction at large" in the case of an unguilded plant or cap) should own and decide keep upgrades, own outposts, etc. Use the faction flags on the map. Ensure anything claimed by a guild in your faction is always accessible boy your allies, but always, always use both the faction and guild flags on claimed assets. Shadows in your guild recruiting incubator and highly important to the long term health of both factions and dregs. Encourage individuals to do content in shadows, but also encourage guilds to collaberate for rewards, and make sure all those solo players have an obvious visual relationship between who the guilds are in their own and enemy factions through heraldry (using the guild and faction flags on structures/outposts as well as toast messages (These should not read "Earth is capturing X" unless it is an unguilded player but should in stead read "<Guild> (earth) is capturing X"
  • There is no reason to make campaign tokens no drop no trade. Individual trophies that signify specific placements it makes sense to prevent someone that didn't actually get a 1st place win from owning a 1st place trophy. Tokens intended to buy vendor based rewards are effectively earnable by any player given enough time, and there is no reason to prevent players from awarding them or even selling them to other players. Its my currency, I earned it, I should be able to sell it to another player for their currency if I want to. These vendor based rewards do not signify specific achievement and as such should not be treated as if they do.
  • For unguilded players, rather than than having chests for "your faction placed X in glory" all your shadows chests should be individual rewards that read "For players in the top x% of unguilded players contributed to glory in the 1st place faction" "For players in the top x% contributed by unguilded players to glory in the 2nd place faction" etc. The primary individual reward metric should always be individual effort, multiplied by the secondary metric of whether or not their faction won. This encourages personal effort first, and further incentivizes teamwork to get the multiplier. There is no situation where basing the entirety of a reward on faction placement is appropriate in shadows because you are evenly distributing rewards across a vastly unequal amount of effort or individual/guild success.
  • Friendly rivalry within a faction is good. Embrace it with your reward system. Make players want to compete with members of their faction for "did the most stuff to move the faction forward" and they're far more incentivized to do the things you want them to be doing as members of a faction, taking objectives, upgrading them, and taking the fight to their enemies. You don't want a bunch of people choosing to freeload because they already have one motivated guild in the faction footing the bill for their rewards.
  • Limit the number of holdings for any individual shadows guild to one keep, and one fort. Individual, again, cap for "the faction at large" Any additional fort captures or keep plants are illegal. This incentivizes other members of the faction to pull their weight, prevents large guilds from cutting the rest of their faction out of the system, and reinforces the idea that factions require cooperation between multiple guilds and individual players to succeed.
  • The tokens are a great idea myself and many other players have suggested for a while and I'm glad to see it in the design.
  • Nobody wants an EK mob spawner that doesn't drop anything, and there is no economic reason to format them this way. If players can farm a mob with zero PvP risk in 3 zones of GR, they should be able to farm it risk free from the mob spawners in their EK. These are economically identical methods of resource acquisition, and doing so removes players from GR which is a place you want to move as many players out of as possible. Just clamp the rewards of the EK spawners to whatever your clamp is in the PvE GR zones. There is no detrimental effect on the ingame economy that comes from letting people farm extremely low grade loot in their EKs, and allowing this greatly incentivizes player organizations to serve as assitants to the NPE be allowing them to array their EKs as new player incubators.
Edited by PopeUrban

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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1 hour ago, Van_Zant said:

Very interesting stuff, and there's a lot of places this new data/token system can take you from here.

You could, for example, use all this new data to base caps on ACTIVE SOLDIERS instead of website members when planning Campaign Caps for Guild/Faction/Alliance.

Should also consider perhaps a new reward type based on actual PvP performance.  While it can be gamed, there current Conquest structure and most of the DF quests incentivizes not fighting (as the most efficient path to reward).

One quibble, we cannot import or reasonably use siege outside campaigns, so why bother putting it on a vendor/as a reward?

Thank you for the feedback. I'm not saying I will steal the rich Guinecean idea, but I absolutely adore it! As for the quibble, you're correct. You cannot import that into the campaigns. However, this gives everyone the opportunity for cheaper sieging within Gods Reach. When sieges happen, there's not much of an opportunity for players to test it out in a similar way that you could test out your powers on a practice dummy. If one chooses to, they can spend their tokens, build a siege weapon and give it a whirl in Gods Reach. 

There's also a section for new rewards we may build in the future. If you have other rewards you'd like to see in that particular vendor, please let me know! Obviously, I want the rewards to be both flexible and rewarding :)

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53 minutes ago, Yoink said:

Do LOTS of cosmetic rewards. (skins, portraits, EK Stuff)
Have some of the rewards be exclusive to each campaign. If you miss out on a campaign, you will never get a shot at that reward again.

I always thought like trophy statues for our EKs that have interactables for the Leaderboard from that c ampaign, that are maybe cosmetic to how you placed, would be super cool

So, W could go look at their Conquest #1 statue from first east dregs, etc. etc.

And we could have like a literal record of our endeavors in Crowfall

Edited by McTan
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1 hour ago, Infraction said:

I like the idea of putting more thought into the rewards.

I do feel like the time logged in is exploitable if the check is whether they are logged into the campaign or not. I could see people on stealth classes sitting in random out of the way spots afk clocking time or just sitting in temples afk in safety.

For factions you need some sort of sliding reward though for time spent in current faction unless the only faction rewards are personal. Otherwise, you will still have people changing onto the winning side at the end to collect the best rewards rather than playing out the campaign.

Hello Infraction. Thank you for the feedback first and foremost. 

I fully agree with the following statement, "I could see people on stealth classes sitting in random out of the way spots afk clocking time or just sitting in temples afk in safety". There's information that was remove from the original document to keep certain aspects of the individual requirements a secret. While I cannot tell you how, I can certainly tell you that what you described wont be happening. 

Interesting idea on the sliding rewards for FvF. I'm going to sit on that, give it some thought. Thank you!

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