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M0rdred

Trade In Campaigns

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(This post is about trade in campaigns, NOT in the Eternal Kingdoms... that is a whole other problem)

 

First off let me start by saying that trade is vital- especially in a PvP heavy game. The important thing, however, it to ensure it is implemented right. Some games completely switched me off because of people standing in the streets shouting "Want To Buy!" or "Want To Sell!" It creates spam, it opens up scams and provides absolutely no ease of use for either merchants nor the end user.

 

jorvik2.jpg

 

A properly realised trade system provides something concrete to fight for. Resources are sent to crafters, who turn them into weapons, which are used to secure more resources. This process has a number of vulnerabilities - the resource collection, transport, the crafting location and the sale.

 

Summary;

Resource points that can be controlled and raided.

Logistics which can be intercepted.

Workshops that can be destroyed.

Points of sale which are player controlled and regulated.

Items which are actually useful, and valuable.

 

Resource Collection

We already know that Crowfall has resource collection, be it though mines, mills and other such structures or PvE combat against NPC creatures. These are viable targets, and control of these assets will provide a significant strategic and economic edge.

 

Logistics

Once the resources have been secured, they need to be moved to where the crafters are. To do this, adventurers would have to grab the goods and run them back to their base. This is however extremely boring, so why not automate it?

 

Introducing; the Outpost.

 

An Outpost is basically a structure which allows a caravan network to be created (yes, this will require us to reach that stretch goal!) Outposts, spawn and send caravans to Marketplaces, moving goods from point A to point B.

 

Each Outpost is linked to a marketplace, and it will send goods to that marketplace (a one-way journey).

 

An outpost can be built;

  • Near a mine or other resource structure to automatically siphon goods off, and load Caravans.
  • In the middle of no-where, to send goods from favoured hunting grounds back to town.

Once a certain level of goods have been stockpiled, a caravan is spawned and heads off to the Marketplace. Caravans do appear in the game, and can be attacked. I would suggest that NPC guards can be hired to protect them (to deter solo-attackers), but this should of course come with a fee.

 

Likewise outposts should be able to hire guards, but are otherwise destructible. Any items contained in their inventory can be looted.

 

Workshops

So, Players are now in possession of resources, but they now need to refine those materials into items that are of actual use. Workshops are buildings that can be built anywhere, but will require protection as they will not come with guards or anything of their own. Unlike Outposts, they are not a frontier building. Workshops should also be upgradable, with higher tier machines and stations required to fashion better equipment. Therefore, a real financial investment is required to make the best items - and that investment has to be protected as it is otherwise vulnerable.

 

mercant_02_1280.jpg

 

Marketplaces

Marketplaces are the final element which ties the whole system together. These are the targets of the Caravans, they are limited warehouses to store goods and they are the final point of sale to other players. Marketplaces can house one or more merchants, each with a limited capacity (quantity and different number of items) of what they can sell. Marketplaces can be upgraded in order to increase merchant capacity, increase storage and increase the number of Outposts which can service it.

 

The interface for sales should be quite in depth however, with proper search and filter functionality and not just a massive list as this helps no-body. Marketplaces can list any item found in the game that can be stored in an inventory. This means weapons, armour, jewelry, deeds and blueprints, stone, timber and any other resource.

 

Marketplace owners can decide who may list items with their merchants, and set a tariff on goods sold (so the owner can make profit from other people's sales). These tariffs should be variable, so for example, guild members can have a lower sales tariff. Marketplaces can spawn and send caravans to any other Marketplace. This has to be done from the point of sale  (ie, no distance selling), and of course the caravan is vulnerable to attack!

 

Once again, Marketplaces are themselves vulnerable and need to be defended. If one is destroyed, then all goods held in storage, or by the merchants can be looted! Shipping all that loot however, would pose its own logistical problem...

 

Items which are actually useful and valuable

This should really speak for itself, but top end crafters need to be rewarded for their work with the potential for some very tidy profits. They do live in a dangerous world after all...

 

Conclusion

I have played a lot of MMOs, trading games, strategy games, whatever. Some with excellent trade systems (Eve Online), some with terrible ones (Darkfall... at release). Economics gives people something to fight for, a reason to combat. It gives all that conflict meaning. Adventurers fight over resources, which are sold to crafters, who fashion the tools needed by those warriors to keep the battles going. It's a symbiotic relationship, and each needs the other to survive.

 

(Images taken from google, and all belong to their respective owners)

Edited by M0rdred

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Not sure how this would make it P2W? What am I missing?

Hehe sorry. 

 

Skipped over the whole campaign thing, coming from an EK discussion.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Raiding a central trade hub successfully and caravanning out 10,000 pounds of crap to build a huge castle sounds amazing, I like this idea

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ye i support a trading system as you describe it,it stimulates the creation of businesses and all sorts of PvP,like thugs robbing caravans and in turn players who guard those caravans for payment show up.

 

also i love the point you make,that PvP has to be motivated by economics,not just to be done for the sake of doing PvP

 

 

i mentioned it also in my general suggestions threat,but people aren't that fond of reading so much^^

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2055-suggestion-for-a-realistic-and-meaningful-in-game-societyplayer-driven-changetradecraftinggovernmentfoodpvpminting/page-2

Edited by kampfbock

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Raiding a central trade hub successfully and caravanning out 10,000 pounds of crap to build a huge castle sounds amazing, I like this idea

 

Precisely! There is a real sense of satisfaction in trying to work out just how to ship all that loot back home... and it gives the loser a chance at retribution.

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i also think this system is good,since it stimulates a different form of PvP.

 

players and guilds making their money with robbery and players and guilds making money by protecting caravans and trade routes.

and not just because they like to bash other players heads in,but because of selfish economical interests.,which they combine with their loved play style of bashing heads in^^

Edited by kampfbock

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Ok I wrote an entire response to this post but I hit back so here is my response 2.0

 

Combine Trade Post and Marketplace into a single building that adds onto other greater buildings.  The main function of the Trading Post (TP) is trade, both between players and lands.  

 

The TP can be used as a fixed price market, (IDK if there is a main currency like gold or if it will be barter) should the system be gold the TP will use gold (could also function as an auction house), should it be barter than the person can post the price of the item when they put it on sale.  A TP can be connected to 2 other TPs creating a Trade Network.  Any item put on a single TP can be viewed and bought from any TP on the same network.  When an item posted at a TP it is put in a secure container at that TP, if that TP's parent structure becomes contested the item will not appear on the network, should that TP fall, the conquerors can loot that secure container for all its items.  For a bit more fun, the owner of a majority of the TPs on a network can name the network.  

 

Having TPs and Connecting them to a network does more than just share an item catalog.  

 

Having a TP grants bonuses to their parent structure.  Having one at a mine will boost output by 10%, with an additional 10% boost if you choose to supply a nearby keep.  The owner of the mine can set a delivery schedule at which time a NPC caravan will carry all bonus materials to the selected keep.  These caravans can be intercepted by the enemy.

 

Having a TP at a Keep will decrease travel time of all caravans it receives as well as increase the caravan's escort.  All materials received via caravan will be dumped into a stockpile which will serve as a trust fund for maintenance and repair of all structures designated as being part of the keep.

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I had considered that too, but I preferred separating the Outposts and Markets because it creates weak spots in the logistics which can then be raided and intercepted - making economic warfare a tool in a group's strategic arsenal.

 

Markets could be connected together to form routes as you suggest (with shared sales inventory), though this would detract from the logistical element again. I prefer the disconnect because it provides a real way for merchants to profit. They buy goods cheaply in one market and then transport it themselves to another, selling there at profit. This is how goods get distributed from the manufacturers to the consumers.

 

If there is added risk, prices are likely higher due to shortage. This again, is desired. 

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I prefer the idea of caravans being player driven and player guarded only. No NPCs. That would make the deliveries more interesting. Some players won't mind caravan duty and others won't mind guarding the caravans. And if a guild/faction want's resources delivered... better get that caravan moving.

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I prefer the idea of caravans being player driven and player guarded only. No NPCs. That would make the deliveries more interesting. Some players won't mind caravan duty and others won't mind guarding the caravans. And if a guild/faction want's resources delivered... better get that caravan moving.

 

Sorry, I missed this reply. There should still be Caravans which are player controlled (call them carts to differentiate them) which allows players to choose their own routes. The main thing about the automated Caravans is so Players are not forced to protect each and every load of goods which moves around. 90% of these escorts will be without interaction and therefore extremely boring.

 

Having Player controlled carts though, means that if a normal trade route is regularly being raided, then they can try and find an alternate route. It would open up new strategies like blockade running and smuggling. Player owned carts would also be used during raids to cart any loot back to base.

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What happens to the workshops full of materials and Market Places full of goods when the Campaign ends? Do they just disappear or what?

 

Campaigns come and go, some will last a long time, others may be short, the Eternal Kingdoms is forever. I think I see the more expensive work shops and market places being located in the Eternal Kingdom and temporary setups being used in the campaigns.


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@Obsidian_Guild - Covert Stealth Operation Specialists -  http://theobsidian.co

 

 

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Devs have put the kibosh on automated caravans. If you want goods to move you need players to move them.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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