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Persistant Non-Campaign World


BlackfeatherCo
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I know that there's the newbie world with Skypoint as the place that people can go for some some quick no frills faction action but I feel that it's a bit too small for more than just a place to learn the ropes. I don't mind the newbie zones being a part of the experience but there should be a place where folks can go when they just want to log in for a bit and have some fun in-between campaigns or when they don't have the ability to fully commit to a campaign world.

Expand Skypoint to include maybe 3 additional zones that aren't the newbie areas. Also maybe re-classify/re-name it such that it doesn't carry the stigma of it just being for the NPE.

My 2 cents.

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He's not wrong, there needs to a persistent world. Dev's do need to create an mmo backbone for this game using that persistence, GR is the best candidate for this. If not then the game will never not in a million years make it.

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I guess Im having trouble with this because what the game needs varries so much from player to player.

Even a large team would have a hard time trying to figure out how best to spend time and resources at this point.

In the QnA they mention that they have to chose what to work on because time is finite for them. 

Edited by Thyme
words r hard
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12 minutes ago, Thyme said:

Guess they need to make a game mode for you than ;) Starter(skypoiny)-kind of starter(your world)-Casual(FvF)-HC GvG(dregs)

No, just someplace to put my boots when I don't have time to engage in a campaign.

I'm not currently logging in, not because I don't wan to play, but because it's not worth jumping into a campaign once a week. Some campaigns I'll have the time to enjoy end to end, other times I won't. Having a persistent world that can be played in without worrying about campaign specific requirements will improve overall game engagement IMO.

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7 minutes ago, Thyme said:

I guess Im having trouble with this because what the game needs varries so much from player to player.

Even a large team would have a hard time trying to figure out how best to spend time and resources at this point.

True, its easier to understand where I'm coming from, and what the game needs by looking over the design intention presented by the devs.You can find much of it here.

https://crowfall.com/en-US/faq

https://crowfall.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/360011189654-Campaign-Worlds

I use these to develop a lot of my feedback and my own expereince with the game. The devs wanted to acheive something very speceficic, but failed on implementation, and the core concept being inherently flawed. 

Edited by IceBolt
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Jeez haha, that is a lot of words. If you read all of that I got mad respect to your commitment. :)

My feedback is just based off of personal experience. What im enjoying and not etc.

If I concerned myself with dev promisses pre launch I would be in a state of persistant dissapointment.

Edited by Thyme
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Well...... I like persistent worlds but only if they are huge. Just gigantic. And the game makes it reasonable to move to new areas if your current area is too hot (or too cold).

If you're going to have, frankly, Crowfall sized maps, then it would get very boring to be stuck on the same map forever. The random world generation for each new campaign actually is a feature I like. I really wish Guild Wars 2 had done this. The main reason I quit was because I was just tired of the map. Same with ESO. Logging into the same exact setup every day gets old after like 3 months.

So sure, massive persistent world, the kind that takes a few hours to cross, that might have some real merit. I did like the size of the LIF:MMO map.

If it's going to be a small world, though, then it needs some shakeups to keep it feeling fresh. Take a lesson from every FPS ever made: map rotation keeps people coming back.

 

Edited by Slamz
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The point of the game is literally to enter campaign maps and pull what you can from them before they end, including both moment to moment rewards and campaign scoring rewards. The point of GR is to teach you to do stuff so you can go play campaigns. Import limitations exist in campaigns so that you're not constantly assaulted be people with completely stacked characters due to persistent wealth acquisition.

If you feel like the campaigns aren't doing the job of engaging you on a day to day basis, the solution is to fix the moment to moment reward mechanisms within those campaigns, the import exploits in those campaigns, or offer more casual campaigns so that they are.

GR doesn't have a "stigma" of being the new player area. It is a new player area, designed as such and intended to suck enough you want to leave it and play the actual game.

The question to answer is not "how do we make it easier to avoid playing the actual campaign game?" but rather "why don't you want to play the actual campaign game and how do we fix that so you want to?"

You know, like, fix the game in stead of just have a game you don't want to play and give you even more reasons not to want to play it.

Edited by PopeUrban

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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4 hours ago, Slamz said:

Well...... I like persistent worlds but only if they are huge. Just gigantic. And the game makes it reasonable to move to new areas if your current area is too hot (or too cold).

If you're going to have, frankly, Crowfall sized maps, then it would get very boring to be stuck on the same map forever. The random world generation for each new campaign actually is a feature I like. I really wish Guild Wars 2 had done this. The main reason I quit was because I was just tired of the map. Same with ESO. Logging into the same exact setup every day gets old after like 3 months.

So sure, massive persistent world, the kind that takes a few hours to cross, that might have some real merit. I did like the size of the LIF:MMO map.

If it's going to be a small world, though, then it needs some shakeups to keep it feeling fresh. Take a lesson from every FPS ever made: map rotation keeps people coming back.

 

Crow fall could keep the randomly generated maps and campaign system, but what need to be done, is that it needs to be properly integrated into an mmo. Which it currently does not do. 

It needs proper persistency to create a immersive and interactive world, and give a real sense of growth and progression. Crow fall has the advantage over most games, in that it has the ability's to create zones on the fly and build its world quickly while changing rulesets. They need to lean into their strengths and use those tools to create something unique. The campaigns are inherently anti mmo, anti economy and create a disjointed experience.

These are several observations from many streamers who played this game. "The world feels disconnected" "There doesn't feel like an economy even exist" "This game feels like a lobby simulator" 

Solving Crowfall's issues can be done just by going back and looking at the intended design and pointing out the key failures and concept flaws. Combining A strategy game with an mmo is a unique idea, but fails miserably when you focus all your systems on making sure the strategy part functions, but you ignore the mmo portion required to give your game a backbone.

Edited by IceBolt
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7 hours ago, BlackfeatherCo said:

Having a persistent world that can be played in without worrying about campaign specific requirements will improve overall game engagement IMO.

This isn't a solo game.

It's a GvG/FvF campaign based experience about winning/losing.

They already have EK, GR, Skypoint and one day Hunger Dome.

Plenty of MMOs offer casual experiences with easy drop in/out.

If campaigns and the game as a whole don't offer enough value outside of the leaderboards, then they should offer more in the moment content be it for solo, group, guilds, whatever.

There's a lot they could do to improve the game that already exists to improve engagement. Expanding the non-factor extra soft worlds doesn't sound like resources well spent.

Wasn't this the game they've intended to make and you expected? Pretty sure I've read comments from you telling people that "this isn't that game" and to enjoy something else when others have suggested deviations from the core design to improve engagement. 🤷‍♂️

 


 

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18 minutes ago, APE said:

This isn't a solo game.

Not a single time did he mention anything related to solo play XD.

20 minutes ago, APE said:

They already have EK, GR, Skypoint and one day Hunger Dome.

Ek's are garbage for any resemblance of persistency in the place of an mmo experience. GR was relegated to a tutorial world to further feed backers and their Monarch fetish in their eks. Hunger dome wont save this game nor offer any consistency outside of campaign ,like why play that when you can just go play any other competent BR. GR is the only saving grace the game could potentially lean into for proper persistency.

25 minutes ago, APE said:

If campaigns and the game as a whole don't offer enough value outside of the leaderboards, then they should offer more in the moment content be it for solo, group, guilds, whatever.

Wont bring a single soul back tot he game as long as the core concept is flawed from the get go.

 

25 minutes ago, APE said:

There's a lot they could do to improve the game that already exists to improve engagement. Expanding the non-factor extra soft worlds doesn't sound like resources well spent.

Its not about expanding them, its about integrating them as a core part of the game, by leveraging more mmo qualities over the strategy campaign "risk light" gameplay. The lobby simulator will only hold the same beta players, no one new will sign up for this.

 

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Lets be real, no more than a handful of players will be picking this up before NW launches. Anyone who isnt currently playing that owns the game probably wont be coming back for at least a few months.

Should they focus on NPE for the 9 suckers who buy the game in the coming weeks or work on mechanics that improve qol for the few remaining dedicated players..??..

 

Edited by Thyme
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It would possibly improve the inter-campaign loop if there was a large persistent world.

I think you would want it to basically lock down all keep siege timers during an active campaign, but then maybe have 2ish weeks between campaigns where keeps are available for siege. It would have to be about as large as the global dregs, and it would have to have lower rank resource nodes to feed into the campaign loop. You would also want to make it so guilds desired campaign rewards to somehow invest in this persistent world. So basically you want to go to campaigns to gather things, export them to this world band, and use them to create an empire in a persistent world that has risks and conflict (unlike EKs).

If this kind of persistent world that still had the 4 season divine favor (and maybe conquest loop) on an endless cycle with some kind of reward that was mostly for fun or decorative it would be an additional draw. Maybe the crafting bonuses from owning land would be enough to drive interest in investing in these spaces?

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