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Call to boycott EK vendors


Potato_Meat
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So in the recent dev/creator to player twitch stream they dismissed the idea of an AH or any form of centralized market place. The reason being that it would "Lower prices". This means that the EK system exists to simply prey upon new players to buy overpriced things and it works I guess. New players run around for 30 minutes trying to find an item. Get frustrated and quit the game. The current EK vendor system is insane and doesn't respect anyone's time. 

Older players say there's nothing wrong with the current EK system and newer players who are trying to progress in the game give up. 

So until the dev's decide to actually better their game for newer players and create a more user friendly economy. I'm asking to boycott the vendor EK system. Don't buy anything off the EK vendors and make them useless. Use the discord channel instead. 

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Yes, the EK system as it is now is complete garbage that would barely make the grade in 2000.

Horrible button-less UI, horrible asset management, horrible permissions system, awful use of space, no signposting for visitors, needing to spin it up, and needing to full logout, login. It's horrendous, it always has been, and it always will be.

It is, however, not on my list of things they should think about, since the game itself - that which feeds EKs - needs massive triage immediately.

Edited by McTan
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At least make it more user friendly. 

Let's be real, they aren't going to eliminate EK vendors. But there are many ways to reduce the friction. 

Make a UI that you can open from anywhere in the EK with a catalog of available merchandise and a waypoint to find the Vendor with the item you want.

That would streamline the process to be less painful, but still get people into EKs, to justify the VIP reward of keeping them open longer. 

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Agreed.  Many of us "vets" hate the current EK vendor system.  It allows people to drive prices up to a point that is unreasonable with no reasonable or effective market forces to drives prices down which is actually in the favor of the customers..  If the devs are claiming this is a good thing, they are clueless and in favor of sharks taking advantage of their players.  I personally already "boycott" the system unofficially meaning my time is important to me and I won't waste it trying to vendor hop vendor after vendor after vendor of overpriced items on the off chance I "may" find what I need at a price I can reasonably afford.  Like the above poster said, its a poorly made system and I feel the devs are falling into the failing trap that I have seen other games fall into.  They create a system, poorly, and then try to distract the players by dangling the next shiny (system) in front of their face when players complain about it rather than actually putting effort into creating high quality systems.  Ultimately you have a game full of poorly made systems and no one playing.... seen it before.  Looks like this is the direction they are going...  time will tell....

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4 minutes ago, Solstar said:

"Half" might be generous. 

You are correct sir.... AT's days are numbered.. plus.. look you have to look who you are supporting. that being said, to any that are "ignorant" of the outlet, make sure you have the official crowfall discord and use that venue to not get ripped off.

.

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3 minutes ago, Cruljin said:

This is far from anything like an AH. Discord works x100000 better for any sales then running to 80 wartribe gear vendors. 

Preaching to the choir bro, until ACE fixes it, i'd avvoid EKs.. literally it's not wort the time sink and inflated prices/taxes. EKs are just another failure in their current implementation. 

EDIT: Other than crafting of course... 

Edited by Armegeddon

.

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2 hours ago, Armegeddon said:

Half the vendors are over priced or they have poorly made dergs for merchandise at this stage of the game

This is just normal shopping. When you look at a popular vendor in a popular EK, you are usually seeing what DIDN'T sell. i.e. probably overpriced.

---

EK search option is in their immediate near term features, so the coming months. Can be seen in the Q&A session here: https://www.twitch.tv/crowfallgame/v/1135041628?sr=a&t=1782s

Right now, if you want to find a good deal, you need to find a lesser known vendor. Once you find that vendor, you don't want to go ahead and advertise that you found that vendor that is giving good deals, unless you want to tell your friends. Since you will then have to compete with more buyers. Don't expect people to just tell you good vendors.

If you're a good vendor, that doesn't advertise, then you're invisible, and if someone manages to find something in your vendor for a good price (by chance), they will probably come back to check, since they would have noted they just got a good deal. But you probably could have sold it higher if you advertised.

Honestly the 20 second log-out time is the biggest pain right now with shopping, if that gets resolved for EK shopping it will much better. But in those 20 seconds I usually am in the Community Discord searching for deals anyways. So I use my time efficiently. Now I also figure out what is selling and figure out what to sell through trades or my vendor. You need to watch the market, like real world markets, to figure out the market prices for everything in the game as well, to assess value of the huge amount of stuff in the game.

I've played casually over the last 2 months. I play a few hours when I can in a day, and I can't play every day. I see what I'm doing as the most efficient use of my game time.

I just set up a vendor last week, and started selling stuff in an EK. I feel like I have more market knowledge than the average, due to understanding the dynamics and watching the community Discord. Having an EK vendor advertisement through the community discord also facilitates trades for things you can't list. I have made a couple of hundred thousand gold already. This was from getting knowledge on how I saw the market as a buyer.

There is an entire meta-game related to buying/selling in this game. If you don't want to play it, and don't want to keep giving money to Aerynth Traders, and don't want to search EKs on Discord or otherwise, you can also go buy from the vendors in Shadow and Dregs. 

Edited by LashLash
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A centralised search engine would be a good start.

 

Even better would be an NPC in game to search on and buy from so you don't have to log out and EK jump.

 

DAOC had that option, you could buy from a vendor that charged an extra fee for the  item, or find the item on that vendor, note the seller and then travel to the seller's house/villa/mansion to buy from their npc. That was good game mechanics.

 

There would still be some motivation to go traipsing through people's EKs to get the best value - hence retaining motivation for people to spend on the development of their respective EK's, while providing an option to avoid doing so when all you really want is a low price mat item and don't feel like waiting forever for an EK to boot.

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14 hours ago, LashLash said:

I just set up a vendor last week, and started selling stuff in an EK. I feel like I have more market knowledge than the average, due to understanding the dynamics and watching the community Discord. Having an EK vendor advertisement through the community discord also facilitates trades for things you can't list. I have made a couple of hundred thousand gold already. This was from getting knowledge on how I saw the market as a buyer.

There is an entire meta-game related to buying/selling in this game. If you don't want to play it, and don't want to keep giving money to Aerynth Traders, and don't want to search EKs on Discord or otherwise, you can also go buy from the vendors in Shadow and Dregs. 

 

Do you think a new player is going to spend time spamming a discord to make a sale? Or burning actual play time to run around EKs? These are things that should already be in the game.

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18 hours ago, Potato_Meat said:

So in the recent dev/creator to player twitch stream they dismissed the idea of an AH or any form of centralized market place. The reason being that it would "Lower prices". 

 

Holy #$%$# did they really say that? Is there a video recap somewhere that has a timestamp?

My god, I've been begging ACE to put in AH's for years and they just said NO?

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The income coming from EK is great = it doesn't cost them anything anymore. From a business point there is absolutely no point doing anything, from us players this is far from okay.

I really feel we (I were in that lot) accepted some things in CF where in any other game that would have made us uninstalled the game. Arguing it will be better tomorrow, it is enough for today is not a sane behavior in game industry.

If there was no kickstarter, no so long period of beta, not already paid game 5 years ago for some, no time investment for some, let's say if the game was just sold as is a majority of players would have ask a refund or would have been gone (which is anyway close to our current situation no matter it pleased or not).

 

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1 hour ago, DocHollidaze said:

 

Holy #$%$# did they really say that? Is there a video recap somewhere that has a timestamp?

My god, I've been begging ACE to put in AH's for years and they just said NO?

They did. It was the September Q&A.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1135041628

Timestamp: 55:35

The specific quote:

Quote

So, the auction house is something that we've definitely shied away from because we want to have that vendor shop experience.

I know a lot of people aren't familiar with it, but it has allowed the players to make some really cool EKs that are set up as trade <something>

One of our original promises which is really cool and the sad thing is if you put in something like an auction house, not only does it tank your economy because it's a race to the bottom with price, but it also .. you lose out on the experience of visiting some of these EKs.

 

I just don't understand. There is no bottom. There is the market clearing price. Anything above that is just waste that has to be created from friction and inefficiency and lack of information.

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The argument is totally insane to me "One of our original promises". Regarding all of the promises I really do not think, maybe I could be wrong, that this is the one that anyone will put in priority above the others.

This is a total disrespect or communication hogwash, your choice.

Edited by hidwulf
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A centralized database for all merchandise being sold quickly makes any items dropped as NPC loot worth only what an NPC vendor will pay. It's the merchandise made by players that has more intrinsic value, either based on effort to collect materials or costs required from materials only sold by Vendors. 

In both scenarios, none of the money paid for an item leaves circulation, as it just changes player hands. So, I'm not sure why it matters that prices will go down. 

Other than maybe the fact that players won't have to grind out in the world as much. But, if that's a goal of the EK vendor system, to force higher prices, then the Devs really need to weigh the costs of inducing that much friction into the system. 

 

A happy medium of providing a database within each EK of the items being sold there would help with that friction, and not lower the prices without some legwork by the seller checking other EKs.

Edited by Solstar
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