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...for the love of everything holy!!!!!


Xaero
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7 minutes ago, Drizzzt said:

Agreed.  They have shown a capacity to not understand what a decent system looks like and what a decent system needs so at this point I wouldn't put it past them to implement an "auction house" that fails as an auction house and makes things worse due to their lack of understanding such things....

I disagree, they understand full well. You need to step back away from the tree and see the forest. If you look at it from a differing perspective, for instance if someone wanted to build a 'rpg maker' for mmo's, one would need a lot of basic mechanics that would not need to be finished or fleshed out, just the basic capabilities are needed. All the varied changed can all be explained from this viewpoint. Luckily we are speaking hypothetically and artcraft didnt actually do what they said they would do in public releases years ago 😇

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38 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Crowfall unfortunately has a lot of problems whose sum make the already meh experience even worse.

Take crafting. It itself is alright. Not good, not bad.

But add no functional trading/selling. Add no Guild bank. Add no mailing system.

It is a bunch of issues that make the whole thing 10 times worse. Even in an organized guild simple things become a huge pain in the ass. In what world is it okay for a guildie to need to spam 'someone have mushrooms?' in chat and voice cuz the game literally doesnt help at all?

'Someone needs food? Huh, what kind you say? Im at temple, can you come here?'

It is just the game being a pain in the butt for no reason. And the vast number of small problems is what makes this game be dead. For every not bad thing there is 10 'minor issues' that will make you wonder why you bother.

If I could give you 1000 likes, I would, as you have captured my feelings about this game exactly.  

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34 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

I disagree, they understand full well.

Yeah this is actually the "abandon all hope" realization for me, too -- that in interviews, it is clear that not only are the devs aware of the problems but they like the way it works. They literally log out to character select, fish for an EK, load it up, look at the absolute disaster going on in there and are like "Yeah, man. Yeah. This really worked the way I'd hoped it could."

Vendors? They love it. Exactly as planned. Perfectly implemented. The rich environment of bringing players to crafters exactly as they'd always wanted to see in a video game. Magnifique! Perfecto!

I guess it's just a shame that so few people want to play this magnificent implementation of an ideal roleplaying society.

(Does your bank just seem like a jumbled mess that's hard to find anything in? Exactly as intended! Your character grumpily browsing through a giant box jammed with stuff while trying to find the thing he is looking for is a lovingly created depiction of what a real fantasy world safety deposit box would actually be like. It is perfect in every way. You're not trying to find all the sacrifice items you can't recall the names of so you can use them on this new character; you're roleplaying!)

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51 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Yeah this is actually the "abandon all hope" realization for me, too -- that in interviews, it is clear that not only are the devs aware of the problems but they like the way it works. They literally log out to character select, fish for an EK, load it up, look at the absolute disaster going on in there and are like "Yeah, man. Yeah. This really worked the way I'd hoped it could."

Vendors? They love it. Exactly as planned. Perfectly implemented. The rich environment of bringing players to crafters exactly as they'd always wanted to see in a video game. Magnifique! Perfecto!

I guess it's just a shame that so few people want to play this magnificent implementation of an ideal roleplaying society.

(Does your bank just seem like a jumbled mess that's hard to find anything in? Exactly as intended! Your character grumpily browsing through a giant box jammed with stuff while trying to find the thing he is looking for is a lovingly created depiction of what a real fantasy world safety deposit box would actually be like. It is perfect in every way. You're not trying to find all the sacrifice items you can't recall the names of so you can use them on this new character; you're roleplaying!)

Thats when it hits you......gamigo...i mean ace* designed the game to be a slog with gimmicky eks just because they wanted money for the eks. Sellouts > passionate game design.

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4 hours ago, Slamz said:

Which is really a failure of the vendor system, not the crafting system.

As I see it, 90% or more of the playerbase should be able to not care about crafting what-so-ever. You can certainly play EVE and never care one tiny bit about how ships get built. All you know is you go to the market, find what you want and buy it. How you get your money is up to you; there are plenty of options.

It doesn't work in Crowfall because the vendor systems suck. The implementation of EKs sucks too, which makes shopping into a sucks2 situation.

(It doesn't help that grinding your way up through crafting also sucks but even once you become a legendary crafter it still sucks because there's no good way to bring your goods to market.)

We are really one auction house system away from saving Crowfall's economy and giving non-crafters a real way to obtain the gear they need. I just don't think it will ever happen because the game designers really cling to some fairy tale vision of how vendors work. If the devs were correct, your complaint would not exist because you would have developed a "personal relationship" with some nice Stoneborn guy who sells you your custom armor and blah blah. Obviously their vision has not worked.

The vendor system was WAY better when they had vendors in temples. U just loged in and broused the vendors in temples to find what you wanted.

 

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16 hours ago, mystafyi said:

I disagree, they understand full well. You need to step back away from the tree and see the forest.

Trust me, I'm not to close to this.  Here's what I mean when I say they lack understanding.  Ask the simple question.  Do they want the game to fail or do they want to build a successful game that people enjoy playing?  Well, logic dictates they want to build a successful game of course.  So, why are they taking the current path they are taking then?  Like slamz said, they log out to character selection, fish for an EK, load it up, look at the absolute disaster going on in there and are like "yeah man, yeah.  This really worked the way I'd hoped it could."

That screams lack of understanding to me.  You think something is great when its not meanings you don't actually understand what is great and what works. 

It almost feels like none of these people have played a video game in their life and they are creating all these concepts and systems from scratch as opposed to recognizing features that work in successful games and reinterpreting them for their needs. 

I suspect there is something else at play here as well.  Who are they actually listening to regarding game feedback?  I don't think its any of us vocal critics in here.  Where is their money coming from?  I suspect there are whales paying some of their fee's giving them their own feedback and because this is where their money is coming from, this is who they listen to.  Seen it before.  Games failing massively but because a select few are telling them everything is great and those select few are financing them, they keep walking the path. 

The problem with whales who have invested so heavily into something, sometimes they are to close to it because they have a personal investment into it and can't see the flaws for what they are so taking feedback from them will lead you down the wrong course.

Course, I could be WAY off here. lmao :)  

 

 

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A solution to zone PvP and a boon to crafters.



Introduce a new item that slots into crafted gear with all the (random) stat bonuses available, this new "Augmentation" only drops in hotzones and scales in rarity White, Green, Blue, Purple, Orange.  Runecrafters

 

Eliminate all low areas from the ability to go past T5, Eliminate all seasonal rewards that reward materials on end of dregs, and introduce rewards that are cosmetic based from skins for characters, symbols like guild icons on shields, or EK building/statue upgrades.

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It's funny how everyone here is disagreeing with me AND agreeing with me at the same time.  Making it an easier system is one solution to the absurdity it is right now.  The mines and npc crafters system I mentioned from Shadowbane was just a fun and even more simple solution (that worked in that game even if the game died due to being sold off to UBIsoft). 

They are talking about adding mines now.  If the devs add a higher chance for normal resources then they will be worth the fight over them.  It would be just like the Shadowbane mines.  The mines were important enough in Shadowbane that we killed our own leveling groups if we couldn't field enough people to take them.  That is a level of gameplay that none of you have ever experienced.  

Mines is a great step 1.  Step 2 needs to be tweaking the crafting system.

Edited by Xaero
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No

Make trading more accessible (searchable) with a system for buy and sell orders. I understand what they wanted to do with the EKs and venders but the current implementation for vendors is not serving the players as well as it should be. 

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On 9/23/2021 at 12:36 AM, Drizzzt said:

awe yes, the vaunted shadowbane.  I always get a kick out of this one.  Shadowbane this and shadowbane that.  Such an amazing game that shadowbane......  You are aware, that game failed right????  Just an idea, maybe take an approach to things different than a game that failed...  Just an idea, and also maybe look to games that are still alive and kicking for ideas of what works. lol  My second favorite thing people do, quoting meaningless statistics.  "90% of people I talk to..."  and if you only talk to 5 people?  10 people? 20 people?  In the grand scheme of things regarding what percentage of actual players like vs dislike the crafting, that 90% is kinda meaningless... just saying.  I will however accept that you and a percentage of your friends don't like it.  Fair enough but overall,  I don't know, a lot seem to like it...

It seems this game has certainly out-failed Shadowbane... I could find people to kill in Shadowbane for years. This game is a few months old and you can run the entirety of the Shadows zones at midnight and not find a single person to kill. I'll take Shadowbane's fail over this any day.

I imagine I'm not the only person who finds the absurd amount of grinding and incessent clicking to be a complete turn off.

Edited by Shadivak
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13 hours ago, Ravenheart said:

No

Make trading more accessible (searchable) with a system for buy and sell orders. I understand what they wanted to do with the EKs and venders but the current implementation for vendors is not serving the players as well as it should be. 

They aren't going to do that. That requires a lot of work and they aren't willing to do it to fix what they believe the players themselves should be fixing. They hinted in a video earlier that mini malls should be organized, not just 100+ vendors in no particular order.

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1 hour ago, Summon_Bero said:

They aren't going to do that. That requires a lot of work and they aren't willing to do it to fix what they believe the players themselves should be fixing. They hinted in a video earlier that mini malls should be organized, not just 100+ vendors in no particular order.

yes, because we the players want the exact same issues IRL in game as well....

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13 hours ago, Shadivak said:

It seems this game has certainly out-failed Shadowbane...

Took the Treachery server 6 months to reach the state of abandonment this entire game hit after just 2 months.

 

I'd love to see a post mortem of this game. Was it hubris? Infighting? Financial issues? Sabotage?

What the heck caused a seasoned team of accomplished developers to deliver this... incomplete mess.

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On 9/22/2021 at 1:26 PM, Nichivo said:

I  have to disagree, the crafting is one of only a handful of things that remotely still interests me in the game, and those changes would remove the reasons for the interest.

I mean, thats nice that you like it, but the game is full of systems that a tiny few amount of people like and the bulk of gamers hate.

The game is doing well with these systems?

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After talking with some of my guild mates we came to several conclusions:

1.  PVP in Crowfall is amazing and beats everything else out there (even the new kid on the block).

2.  The crafting in Crowfall is the downfall of the game.

3.  The EK vendor system too.

Number 2 and 3 is making them want to play a new shiny sub par game (the new kid on the block). 

I really wished I could of been around when they started adding this crafting system back in alpha/beta.  I would of yelled and screamed back then about how bad it was.  I stopped playing before they even added textures to the white blocks, etc.  When it was a PVP game and not a crafting grind.  With their limited developers (due to lay offs) and the "new kid on the block" I fear for the games demise.  I purposely bought 1 year VIP as a gamble things get better.

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15 hours ago, Xaero said:

I would of yelled and screamed back then about how bad it was. 

I brought it up many times. I said it was an issue that you needed a user manual the thickness of a telephone book to do crafting in this game. Some people agreed, but not the core testers on Ace's private forum and thats the people they listened too.

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edit: I'm gonna keep my opinion mostly to myself on this but I will just say I spent most of my time crafting in crowfall and now going into new world trying to craft I feel like ben Affleck in the smoking meme. So to say the least it was appreciated however I agree sometimes I was like this is too much work just to make a set of gear.

Edited by Summon_Bero
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On 9/26/2021 at 12:54 PM, Nightmarian said:

That's great for all the crafters out there, but the game wasn't pitched as a Minecraft-clone or Merchant Simulator game, it was pitched as a PvP game. The very fact that crafting is the biggest appeal Crowfall has highlights just how much of a failure the game is. Imo, they should rip it out completely, but as you said, there's not much else in the game because they wasted so much time on the crafting systems instead of the PvP systems.

1: Crowfall was never advertised as JUST a PvP game. It was highly advertised as a giant siege guild game where you RELY on guildies to work together, which is why people choose something they wish to specialize in and focus it. If you want JUST a pvp game,  sounds like fps or Br's are more up your ally.

 

On 9/26/2021 at 12:54 PM, Nightmarian said:

Most of the people who I know that tried the game briefly quit specifically because of the crafting, though I guess that also means it's not surprising that most of the folk still playing are the crafters... 

This is entirely un-true. I am not just a "crafter" but yes, I do craft, but i spend most of my time pvping Sounds like you wanna just pvp and work for nothing and have others hand you everything tbh.

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