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Alliance Scoring


ACE-Tiggs
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Since the 7.200 Release, there has been some confusion as to the scoring changes for Alliances that were introduced.  While in an Alliance, the Conquest score of subguilds in the Alliance are combined with the Leader of the Alliance to determine the Scoreboard and eventual winners of the campaign.  With this:

  • If an Alliance sub-guild leaves an Alliance, the Conquest points they've accumulated are removed from the Alliance leader.  If that guild were to join a different Alliance, the Conquest points would be added to the other Alliance.  Otherwise, they would remain with that guild.
  • Conquest rewards are only given to the Guild Leader / Officers of the Alliance Leader.  Divine Favor Rewards are given to individual guilds and participants as normal.
  • The intent is that an Alliance can be competitive in Conquest scoring with larger guilds and receive equivalent rewards overall.  In this system, subguilds being eligible for Conquest rewards would have resulted in the Alliance receiving more rewards overall than if a single guild had won them.
     

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8 minutes ago, Jayko said:

So just to be clear, does an allied subguild still receive their top 20% reward etc., or not?

Based on "Conquest rewards are only given to the Guild Leader / Officers of the Alliance Leader.", I believe for conquest rewards, the answer is no. The ambiguous thing now is how top 20% is calculated.

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So, now, we are left with the crappy situation of losing out on conquest points for individual guild rewards because we are not taking Allied outposts to be "considerate", knowing that we are not only not going to get as many rewards for our individual participation, but even the rewards obtained by the Big Shield will be watered down...assuming big shield is honorable and shares rewards. 

 

Individual rewards in the proposed Reward Token system seems more viable, assuming the kinks in the individual scoring gets worked out. (i.e. actually getting credit for assists).

Edited by Solstar
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Thanks for the further clarification. 
I am still not sure how the percentiles work under the system though? For example, how do we calculate top 20% in conquest?
Here is an example we can refer to below, which I believe is an approximate distribution how things could end up:

---

1) Alliance Leader Guild 1        19513
    > Alliance Leader Guild 1    18000
    > Sub guild 1A                     1005
    > Sub guild 1B                     508

2) Alliance Leader Guild 2       8702
    > Alliance Leader Guild 2    7000
    > Sub guild 2A                     1001
    > Sub guild 2B                     701

3) Alliance Leader Guild 3       4508
    > Alliance Leader Guild 3    3000
    > Sub guild 3A                     1007
    > Sub guild 3B                     501

4) Alliance Leader Guild 4        2721
    > Alliance Leader Guild 4    1000
    > Sub guild 4A                     1004
    > Sub guild 4B                     509
    > Sub guild 4C                     208

5) Alliance Leader Guild 5        1400
    > Alliance Leader Guild 5     1000
    > Sub guild 5A                     100
    > Sub guild 5B                     300

6) Alliance Leader Guild 6        1104
    > Alliance Leader Guild 6     402
    > Sub guild 6A                     401
    > Sub guild 6B                     201
    > Sub guild 6C                    101

7) Guild 7                                208

.8) Guild 8                               193

9) Guild 9                                176

10) Guild 10                            123

---

Given the above, top 20% is only top 1 and 2? 

As you can imagine, sub guild 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B could just drop out of the alliance, and become an un-allied guild at the end of the campaign, and collect rewards commensurate with the rewards for top 60% and top 80%, for example. Alliance 1 and 2 placing would be unaffected. This also increases the number of guilds that become eligible for all percentile tiers, by increasing the denominator of the percentile equation.

6 hours ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

In this system, subguilds being eligible for Conquest rewards would have resulted in the Alliance receiving more rewards overall than if a single guild had won them.

I can appreciate the "conservation of points and rewards", but the system proposed in fact reduces the overall rewards depending on interpretation. Last season, alliances would have likely gotten more rewards than this iteration. I can understand there is an issue of making being in an alliance too strong and always strictly better than being a strong solo guild. But the current balance, due to how percentiles currently work, is still not a clear and elegant solution. I'm sure there are other things I'm not thinking of, which results in messy incentivizations. If we are sticking with percentiles, there needs to be clear communication as to what reward you are eligible for. So we can assess what allows us to maximize reward based on your performance in conquest, as that is fundamentally an incentive structure which will dictate the structure of alliances and guilds. 

In order to deal with these constraints, one suggestion I have is to do the following:

1) Guild leaderboard - We show the previous leaderboard scoring system, so that individual guilds are therefore counted in the percentiles. Rewards given based on percentiles. Removing top 1, 2 and 3 rewards, just keep the percentile rewards. I.e. the highest tier is top 20% conquest rewards. 

2) Alliance leaderboard - Alliance scoring operates on a separate scoreboard, the same as the current live scoreboard. Unallied guilds show up here unallied as well, as they do currently. Rewards for top 1, 2 and 3 are based only on this scoreboard. If the head guild of an alliance receives a top 1-3 reward (or a strong solo guild), they receive ZERO reward in the guild leaderboard. You've therefore removed the percentile problem on this scoreboard, and conserve all the rewards.

I believe this achieves a fair outcome for all.

 

Edited by LashLash
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2 hours ago, ACE-Tiggs said:

Since the 7.200 Release, there has been some confusion as to the scoring changes for Alliances that were introduced.  While in an Alliance, the Conquest score of subguilds in the Alliance are combined with the Leader of the Alliance to determine the Scoreboard and eventual winners of the campaign.  With this:

  • If an Alliance sub-guild leaves an Alliance, the Conquest points they've accumulated are removed from the Alliance leader.  If that guild were to join a different Alliance, the Conquest points would be added to the other Alliance.  Otherwise, they would remain with that guild.
  • Conquest rewards are only given to the Guild Leader / Officers of the Alliance Leader.  Divine Favor Rewards are given to individual guilds and participants as normal.
  • The intent is that an Alliance can be competitive in Conquest scoring with larger guilds and receive equivalent rewards overall.  In this system, subguilds being eligible for Conquest rewards would have resulted in the Alliance receiving more rewards overall than if a single guild had won them.
     

I have cause for concern: our alliance leader had enough total points to be ranked #5 on the scoreboard screen, but in the upper-right corner of the game screen it showed a guild from a different alliance as being #5.

So something is out of sync when it comes to determining that the true rankings are.

 

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1 hour ago, Retchet said:

I have cause for concern: our alliance leader had enough total points to be ranked #5 on the scoreboard screen, but in the upper-right corner of the game screen it showed a guild from a different alliance as being #5.

So something is out of sync when it comes to determining that the true rankings are.

 

This one I can explain I think.

The top right scoring is still just showing the top 5 individual guilds - the old scoring method. 
The scoreboard (tab key) shows the alliance score - the accumulation of all points within an alliance, with the big shield having those points. If you
open up the alliance, it shows the breakdown of individual guilds within that alliance. 


As for the true rankings - owning a keep = win. The amount of passive points is insane. If the new keep scoring scales with the seasons, good luck playing the outpost game homies..

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On 10/11/2021 at 8:48 PM, ACE-Tiggs said:
  • The intent is that an Alliance can be competitive in Conquest scoring with larger guilds and receive equivalent rewards overall.  In this system, subguilds being eligible for Conquest rewards would have resulted in the Alliance receiving more rewards overall than if a single guild had won them.
     

Amongst our community, we don't quite understand the meaning of this bit.

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5 hours ago, Thon said:

Amongst our community, we don't quite understand the meaning of this bit.

It means that Alliances count a guilds for the conquest rewards. Whether you're 15 smaller guilds working together, or one guild, the rewards are the same. 

The Big Shield guild gets the conquest rewards and is on the honor system to share it with the alliance. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

@ACE-Tiggs There is still a lack of clarity on how the percentiles will be calculated for rewards. Will individual guilds be tallied to determine top 20% rewards? Or only what appears on the places on the conquest leaderboard. For example, there are currently only 11 entities above 100 points in the conquest leaderboard. The top 5 are all alliances. Does that mean the 6th place guild (currently "Kontent") gets the 60th percentile rewards if this was the final scoreboard?

Edited by LashLash
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The percentile rewards would be a good place to split it up to individual guild Conquest totals... though, as a GM for a smaller guild in a big alliance, this would restrict my guilds chances at the percentile rewards, if so, since we are actively NOT capping outposts owned by Alliance members. 

I guess we would have to revisit inter-alliance capping courtesy if the percentile rewards were guild-based, not Alliance based. 

Edited by Solstar
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