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7.400.0 Live Feedback for 12.21.2021


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Please share any feedback you may have from your time playing the game on the most recent patch. This includes subjective observations about your gameplay experience. Bugs that you have encountered should be directed to Bug Reports and don't forget the Legend for ACE feedback on Bugs reported!

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The nerf on the Assasins absolutely sucks. It will take away too much of the sustain, when it only gives 250 hp in 5 sec.

If you change it to an internal cd, change the numbers, otherwise you'll totally screw this class even more.

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Powers

Assassin

  • Yaga’s Gift now has a 5 second Internal Cooldown


    The continious nerfing of the Assassin.. You're not bringing it on "par" with the other classes, you're removing it from the gameplay.  Whom ever is advicing you on how to do these changes I'd love to have a talk/debate about how the game actually plays out.

    You have removed the PDM of characters - expecting the Assassin to grown stronger from this, that isn't the case though since you're also removing the damage of the class.  So how are you expecting the class to stay alive to deliver any damage.  

    Having Yagas Gift gave some way to stay on your feet, it's not like the Myrms invulnerability, nor the champions self healing.  It's not the double ulti of the confessor (whom you have successfully REMOVED from the game).  It's not the DOUBLE ULTI PDM of the Frostweaver.   It's not even the self healing of Paragon on a SUPER low CD form a Knight... which is even HIGHER than Yagas Gift..

    You have given the class a 250 heal every 5 seconds!!!  IF and that is a HUGE if... They delay their deadly Toxin.

    So it will look like this : 

    Second 0 - Blink Step or Sneak Attack - Applies Instant Poison.
    - Heals you 250 health.. but you're at full health so now you don't want to use this opener!
    Second 5 - Garrote - Applies Deadly Toxin
    - Heals you for 250 Health... 

    So in the first 5 seconds - You heal 250 health!
    You then use : SHIV - As this refreshes your Toxins... That will heal you for 250.

    But..That means .. for the NEXT 12 seconds you will have NO HEALING what so ever.  You have no way to reapply the buff to you.  Everything that could do that is on CD.

    So you're saying with this change that : Potentially 500 health over 15-17 seconds is OP.   Even when you REAPPLY it you're also not able to do -anything- which makes an Assassin -what so ever- able to be sustainable in a fight..

    After another 17 seconds.. 
    You will have healed 750-1000 health over 35 seconds of Combat.  You're better off just taking Life Steal and that is already a horrible solution.

    EDIT : AND THIS ONLY ONLY HEALDSS IF YOU HIT A TARGET!!!!!!  SO 6M RANGE... 

    No but BY ALL MEANS!!! Ignore the fact that everyone is screaming about the OP Archmage... It's the assassin you think is OP.  By all means don't adress the fact that Barbs + Minotaur Race is a combo that makes them pratically unkillable...  cause it's the Assassin that is OP and that everyone playes now ..

    I truely don't know how to persist in trying to give any sort of feedback cause obviously no one is paying attention.  As much as I love the assassin I don't see any reason what so ever to continue playing the assassin.  After spending time trying to make this work the class is officially @completely broken.
Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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4 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

Powers

Assassin

  • Yaga’s Gift now has a 5 second Internal Cooldown


    The continious nerfing of the Assassin.. You're not bringing it on "par" with the other classes, you're removing it from the gameplay.  Whom ever is advicing you on how to do these changes I'd love to have a talk/debate about how the game actually plays out.

    You have removed the PDM of characters - expecting the Assassin to grown stronger from this, that isn't the case though since you're also removing the damage of the class.  So how are you expecting the class to stay alive to deliver any damage.  

    Having Yagas Gift gave some way to stay on your feet, it's not like the Myrms invulnerability, nor the champions self healing.  It's not the double ulti of the confessor (whom you have successfully REMOVED from the game).  It's not the DOUBLE ULTI PDM of the Frostweaver.   It's not even the self healing of Paragon on a SUPER low CD form a Knight... which is even HIGHER than Yagas Gift..

    You have given the class a 250 heal every 5 seconds!!!  IF and that is a HUGE if... They delay their deadly Toxin.

    So it will look like this : 

    Second 0 - Blink Step or Sneak Attack - Applies Instant Poison.
    - Heals you 250 health.. but you're at full health so now you don't want to use this opener!
    Second 5 - Garrote - Applies Deadly Toxin
    - Heals you for 250 Health... 

    So in the first 5 seconds - You heal 250 health!
    You then use : SHIV - As this refreshes your Toxins... That will heal you for 250.

    But..That means .. for the NEXT 12 seconds you will have NO HEALING what so ever.  You have no way to reapply the buff to you.  Everything that could do that is on CD.

    So you're saying with this change that : Potentially 500 health over 15 seconds is OP.   Even when you REAPPLY it you're also not able to do -anything- which makes an Assassin -what so ever- able to be sustainable in a fight..


    No but BY ALL MEANS!!! Ignore the fact that everyone is screaming about the OP Archmage... It's the assassin you think is OP.  By all means don't adress the fact that Barbs + Minotaur Race is a combo that makes them pratically unkillable...  cause it's the Assassin that is OP and that everyone playes now ..

    I truely don't know how to persist in trying to give any sort of feedback cause obviously no one is paying attention.  As much as I love the assassin I don't see any reason what so ever to continue playing the assassin.  After spending time trying to make this work the class is officially @completely broken.

So what you are saying is let's delete the assassin class. There's already too many :)

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4 minutes ago, chewyr said:

So what you are saying is let's delete the assassin class. There's already too many :)

Yes all those "PvP" assassins out there...  How many are there?  3?

 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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13 minutes ago, Yoink said:

Also overlooking that the placement of this talent in the tree is in a very hard to reach spot. You have to commit a lot to get there. Talents in these locations should be stronger.

Strong?  It's absolutely trash now.  There is @nothing at all in this ability and I completely agree with what Yoink has stated : Make it @worth.

I will even state what Rhea said about those nodes : 

 Rhea: 

The top passive we refer to as "Buried North". That needs to be a really good power. If that power isn't really good, no one takes it...ever. The North Passive, which is the one below it, should be good, but not the best. Most people take one of these as it's an easy path to the next node. You should feel good taking it, but it needs to be clearly not as good as the Buried one.

When you look at the Assassin tree.. Top North "Effecient Poisons" is already a questionable "out of the way" node.. and now the South Node of "Yagas" is trash.  

New changes : 
When refreshing with Shiv.. You effectively refresh 2 Toxins but you only get healing from one of them.  Due to how the new 5sec cooldown works.  This is completely broken.

Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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With the Revamp of the assassin...  The class took a RADICAL change towards "Toxins", them being the main damage of the assassin.

With this change you're ALSO saying : Delay when to apply your toxins cause if you do it in the 5 second window they won't heal you.  So you're ALSO choosing between DOING your maximum damage, OR having a shred of sustain from the healing of Yagas Gift.

The nodes with are OUT of the way for classes.. Should be strong.  The changes to "Yagas Gift" removes not only the sustain/viability of the class -as- well as a lot of it's damage.  Nothing is provided in return and nothing balance our these changes to make the class viable.

The assassin already deal with Toxins breaking SUPER fast cause of how many times you apply a Toxin and with the assassin revamp you did -not- give us more durability on the Toxins.. so it's actually a hassle to work with and when that toxin is gone you do a shadow of your damage... now you can hit and run... you won't kill anything and if you stay you will be a dead assassin.
 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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I 3v1 a group the other day on my vandal (war-tribe gear) post nerf, I would say that Yaga's gift was exceptionally strong, but I think there is more to it than that

https://crowcaine.wiki/builds/new?class=assassin&race=half-elf&talents=a1-b1-b2-c1-c2-d1-d3-e1-f3-g2-h1-i2-j4-k2-l5&majors=deadly-infector--poisoner&minors=careless-whisper--cripple--touch-of-rot&attributes=spi100-int40


 

This is the vandal build I  run - open with recon> sneak attack> backstab > blur > shiv heal,> black mantle heal, > poisoned blade heal> diffusion knockdown > auto attacks> kidney shot> backstab > cripple> envenom heal/pdm > auto attacks (i am still almost full health my target runs) blink-step heal > shiv heal > crippling poison heal, blackjack stun rinse repeat

you get the picture.  coupled with the amount of pdm assassin gets with plague domain the heal is too strong, healing bonus and personal healing modifier also increase the base healing amount, now I personally dont think it was the healing that needed adjustment, but the duration and amount of pdm uptime the class gets.  I would have rather seen deadly infector raised to 750 soul power so it puts a window were the assassin is vulnerable.  There is a reason each and every assassin I know runs plague- nothing else compares to what it does for the tools of the class. 

Maybe we will see more diversity of builds, maybe we will see less assassins, but either way in my opinion something needed to be done

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19 minutes ago, eaos said:

I 3v1 a group the other day on my vandal (war-tribe gear) post nerf,

Early stage, yes it is strong vs other players in wartribe gear.  Later on that falls off as it doesn't scale.  The only way to make it scale is to take healing stats, and even then it doesn't grow to a situation where it's absurd like barriers and many class abilities.  If you for example take all the Below 35% health healing you can get then you can at an early stage in tribe gear vs tribe gear also say they are completely absurd.  Once u get the late game then the scaling is different and these abilities are worthless cause ppl just cut through the healing they do.

Also whom were u fighting?  It would be taking things out of context if u didn't specify if u were vs cookie cutter specs, new or old players etc.

The point is that there is no reason to take it now what so ever.  It actually makes u have to choose between doing damage or expecting you want a heal.  Was this strong?  No it wasn't.  

If you want to change the healing : Lower the healing it does by 10% and see where that takes things.. the Assassin is already pratically not played in the PvP and especially not late game sieges/forts... now in 1v1 and super small scale it's trash.

 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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31 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

Early stage, yes it is strong vs other players in wartribe gear.  Later on that falls off as it doesn't scale.  The only way to make it scale is to take healing stats, and even then it doesn't grow to a situation where it's absurd like barriers and many class abilities.  If you for example take all the Below 35% health healing you can get then you can at an early stage in tribe gear vs tribe gear also say they are completely absurd.  Once u get the late game then the scaling is different and these abilities are worthless cause ppl just cut through the healing they do.

Speaking about that, Gear dependency shouldnt be a thing. Both to not have it an be great class from the start even in wartribe and or to need it and fall behind without top end stuff.

It just isnt a good way to do things.

If both players are into the same gear tier so to speak both should be getting the same boost to their respective playstyles.

Hell, while at it i would like to bring back healing and hp scaling. Fixed number for heals just dont work on the same principle. It doesnt scale as the player progresses and end up falling behind. Focusing on hp is a legit playstyle and would necessitate the player to give up on other stats so it is fair game. If things were scaling weirdly it should be adjusted on a case by case basis (Caps for example).

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18 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Speaking about that, Gear dependency shouldnt be a thing. Both to not have it an be great class from the start even in wartribe and or to need it and fall behind without top end stuff.

It just isnt a good way to do things.

If both players are into the same gear tier so to speak both should be getting the same boost to their respective playstyles.

Hell, while at it i would like to bring back healing and hp scaling. Fixed number for heals just dont work on the same principle. It doesnt scale as the player progresses and end up falling behind. Focusing on hp is a legit playstyle and would necessitate the player to give up on other stats so it is fair game. If things were scaling weirdly it should be adjusted on a case by case basis (Caps for example).

We all know scaling is a thing, big time and I can forgive that as when it comes to end game things quickly settle.. Would I love things to work at all stages of the game yes - OFC.

This change though is so impactful that it makes a class just laughable.

 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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6 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

Powers

Assassin

  • Yaga’s Gift now has a 5 second Internal Cooldown


    The continious nerfing of the Assassin.. You're not bringing it on "par" with the other classes, you're removing it from the gameplay.  Whom ever is advicing you on how to do these changes I'd love to have a talk/debate about how the game actually plays out.

    You have removed the PDM of characters - expecting the Assassin to grown stronger from this, that isn't the case though since you're also removing the damage of the class.  So how are you expecting the class to stay alive to deliver any damage.  

    Having Yagas Gift gave some way to stay on your feet, it's not like the Myrms invulnerability, nor the champions self healing.  It's not the double ulti of the confessor (whom you have successfully REMOVED from the game).  It's not the DOUBLE ULTI PDM of the Frostweaver.   It's not even the self healing of Paragon on a SUPER low CD form a Knight... which is even HIGHER than Yagas Gift..

    You have given the class a 250 heal every 5 seconds!!!  IF and that is a HUGE if... They delay their deadly Toxin.

    So it will look like this : 

    Second 0 - Blink Step or Sneak Attack - Applies Instant Poison.
    - Heals you 250 health.. but you're at full health so now you don't want to use this opener!
    Second 5 - Garrote - Applies Deadly Toxin
    - Heals you for 250 Health... 

    So in the first 5 seconds - You heal 250 health!
    You then use : SHIV - As this refreshes your Toxins... That will heal you for 250.

    But..That means .. for the NEXT 12 seconds you will have NO HEALING what so ever.  You have no way to reapply the buff to you.  Everything that could do that is on CD.

    So you're saying with this change that : Potentially 500 health over 15-17 seconds is OP.   Even when you REAPPLY it you're also not able to do -anything- which makes an Assassin -what so ever- able to be sustainable in a fight..

    After another 17 seconds.. 
    You will have healed 750-1000 health over 35 seconds of Combat.  You're better off just taking Life Steal and that is already a horrible solution.

    EDIT : AND THIS ONLY ONLY HEALDSS IF YOU HIT A TARGET!!!!!!  SO 6M RANGE... 

    No but BY ALL MEANS!!! Ignore the fact that everyone is screaming about the OP Archmage... It's the assassin you think is OP.  By all means don't adress the fact that Barbs + Minotaur Race is a combo that makes them pratically unkillable...  cause it's the Assassin that is OP and that everyone playes now ..

    I truely don't know how to persist in trying to give any sort of feedback cause obviously no one is paying attention.  As much as I love the assassin I don't see any reason what so ever to continue playing the assassin.  After spending time trying to make this work the class is officially @completely broken.

I agree with this, a lot of disgraceful changes being made for a Live game, people invest a lot of time and effort and for one day for it to be completely broken is beyond repair, same way that it happened to the Confessor class, way to go, pushes many people to the edge of quitting.

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11 minutes ago, Gabz said:

I agree with this, a lot of disgraceful changes being made for a Live game, people invest a lot of time and effort and for one day for it to be completely broken is beyond repair, same way that it happened to the Confessor class, way to go, pushes many people to the edge of quitting.

Yes, especially with the effort it takes to get a good vessel be it epic or leggo and buy/farm the minors and majors. Just how much Gold and Time and Exp it costs to make your Char be your Toon and then they take it away and hack the head off so to say. After that they just ignore your feedback and roll out the next decapitation of another class .... Really makes me reconsider my investment in time and vip for this game.

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Pips with going through portals.. STILL DISAPPEAR

Frost Armors when going through portals STILL DISAPPEAR

 

 

When the assassin class was reworked it made use of a LOT of Toxin applications and REapplications ripping through a Toxins Durability... Super fast.  With the rework though Toxins weren't give MORE durability so ATM it's actually a hassle to keep a simple toxin equipped for more than a couple of days.

 

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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There are much stronger classes this patch compared to the few Vandals and Blackguards that were running around. I can understand nerfs to strong abilities, but when you leave Archmages and Barbarians which are the top classes right now in solo and small scale, and that is where Vandal and Blackguard work at all, it really is a huge blow.

Vandals and Blackguards need to be used in strange ways to be useful in medium and large scale fighting, and basically border on useless.

Meanwhile Archmages and Barbs are strong at all scales.

Barbs are the best escape class in the game now with their mobility skills and constant CC immunity.

Please consider reworking those classes in parallel rather than having these windows where already weak classes with some strong synergy get completely destroyed while others stay strong. It was adaptable to a point, but we are getting to territory where you essentially delete a class in this state. 

The confessor nerf occurred and they a weaker, and other things have taken the flavour of the month train. There are people who can quickly adapt to flavour of the month due to luck or a huge resource pool (to have majors, minors, gear ready to go) and exploit it while people try to adapt, but with a week of the game of many of us playing intensely, it is clear what the strong classes in Dregs are now. I don't think many people were running combat Blackguards and Vandals, they are just used as a worse harvesting class compared to a Barb and a Duelist now.

 

Edited by LashLash
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